Topic: KAPPA ROLL BAR FABRICATION/INSTALL

[InTheSky831]

lololol. yeah, pretty dangerous.

but in all seriousness, no. it will never be raced, not like this at least. not until its entirely paid off instead of mostly and has a full cage. but this is a great start to that cage.

all I want is to run solo practice days. when I worked for Porsche I developed a lot of ties in the PCA lonestar region and I get invited almost weekly, but always had to say no because of no rollbar.


now, I can say yes. and go Porsche hunting. cant wait.

[rotarypiston]

lololol. yeah, pretty dangerous.

but in all seriousness, no. it will never be raced, not like this at least. not until its entirely paid off instead of mostly and has a full cage. but this is a great start to that cage.

all I want is to run solo practice days. when I worked for Porsche I developed a lot of ties in the PCA lonestar region and I get invited almost weekly, but always had to say no because of no rollbar.


now, I can say yes. and go Porsche hunting. cant wait.

Performance Autowerks is developing a Roll Bar right now for the Solstice/Sky platform for ASAPGraphics Solstice.  I know yours is already on but their design is quite good as well in prototype form at least for now.

[InTheSky831]

odds are, theirs will eliminate the soft top if its going to be a competition car. and prolyl a whole lot more expensive

[InTheSky831]

if they can come up with something that is mass produced and keep the soft top, that would be cool for everyone else other than me

but there is no room to work with with the stock seats, especially if you are taller.


if its a comp car, I wouldn't hold your breath on getting on in your car lol. they will prolly have minimal interior, racing seats etc, like my car.

[rotarypiston]

Why not make it like this one that can retain stock seats?

[InTheSky831]

You could, but it depends on if you want to hop over that bar every time you drive the car. Even if its bolt in bars...you would have to tie it into the back portion to make it sturdy. Otherwise its not safe. And a sandwich plate involved removing the top which isn't fun. But yes you could but I chose not too. I didn't want to climb the door bars since my car is a daily lol

[InTheSky831]

With stock seats, I'd imagine getting flung into that bar on hard right turns would feel great too lol.

[rotarypiston]

You could, but it depends on if you want to hop over that bar every time you drive the car. Even if its bolt in bars...you would have to tie it into the back portion to make it sturdy. Otherwise its not safe. And a sandwich plate involved removing the top which isn't fun. But yes you could but I chose not too. I didn't want to climb the door bars since my car is a daily lol

If it is bolt in bars, what difference would it make?  I figure it would be out of the way everyday except for track use.  What do you mean tie into the back portion?

[InTheSky831]

A true roll bar has front or rear supports...the setup you posted has fronts, but with those fronts removed it has no bracing other than where its mounted to the floorpan. IF you were to roll with those braces out its more of a hazard than a safety item. It cold fold either way. Might not think it matters, but 9/10 times you'll need it on the street before the track ...


I'm not saying the other design is worse, bit of isn't for me.

[wspohn]

Bad idea to have exposed braces running right next to your body, too. Any idea how much damage a piece of steel tubing can do to your arm or head in a roll over?  Those braces should at least be covered with an impact reducing substance.

[InTheSky831]

correct. inferior IMO...especially after truly being flung into the door panel multiple times lol

[InTheSky831]

how about some top down photos

[rotarypiston]

How easy (or hard) is it to bolt in and take out that roll bar?  How long would it take you to take it out if you did not want it in? 

[InTheSky831]

this is not a bolt in. welded in. much stronger. wouldn't be too hard to cut it out and you'd never know it was there, a few hours.

[werks]

Looks very good!

[InTheSky831]

thanks guys!! hopefully ill never have to use it lol. but its pretty

[rotarypiston]

this is not a bolt in. welded in. much stronger. wouldn't be too hard to cut it out and you'd never know it was there, a few hours.

Is it possible to make it a bolt in?  Obviously weld in some plates for mounting then just have it bolt in and out?

[InTheSky831]

definitiely could do that. but if you were to do a design like mine, it would be senseless to take it out id think. I have no issues getting in and out of the car

also even with the plates welded in, it may affect how far your seat can slide

[elff]

The problem with bolt in's is you need space to place plates that distribute the load evenly. 
With the limited space in a kappa, that is going to be hard to do in a lot of places.

The roll with the stock seats has 2 issues
1.  It has stock seats which let you slide all around while driving hard
2.  The side bars, to me are too high.  Those should not interfere with your arms.

[rotarypiston]

definitiely could do that. but if you were to do a design like mine, it would be senseless to take it out id think. I have no issues getting in and out of the car

also even with the plates welded in, it may affect how far your seat can slide

I am looking for something to put in for track days and then take it out when not at track days. 

If your roll bar had a plate in the back, could you still move the seat all the way back if you had the roll bar out?  I don't care as much with the roll bar in, but if it is out I would like to have the seat as far back as it will let it. 

The problem with bolt in's is you need space to place plates that distribute the load evenly. 
With the limited space in a kappa, that is going to be hard to do in a lot of places.

The roll with the stock seats has 2 issues
1.  It has stock seats which let you slide all around while driving hard
2.  The side bars, to me are too high.  Those should not interfere with your arms.

I am not talking about have the side bars like I posted earlier.  I am talking about his design specifically.  Although, the same could be said about those too. 

[elff]

My comments with the plates remain the same.
You need to sandwich a structurally strong place

[Sol Asylum]

The problem with bolt in's is you need space to place plates that distribute the load evenly. 
With the limited space in a kappa, that is going to be hard to do in a lot of places.

Plus I doubt the bolt in would be structurally as strong as the weld in, there is a reason roll bars/cages are typically welded in place.

[elff]

If done correctly, actually it can be the same strength.
My Jeep cage is a combination of welded and bolted.
The rear is all welded.
The frontmost 2 spots under the dash end in rectangular plates that are bolted in place with 4 Grade 8 bolts.  This sandwiches the frame and has a bushing to not make the jeep overly stiff. 

[wspohn]

If done correctly, actually it can be the same strength.
My Jeep cage is a combination of welded and bolted.
 

Welded is only as strong as whatever you are welding it to. If the underlying metal is thin (or in the case of old cars, has corrosion) then the bar can just tear away too easily.  You have to assess each case individually, but often we have welded to the existing structure and then drilled so that we could also bolt through the plate, the underlying metal and a support plate behind the panel we welded to.

This thread is a welcome change from the usual "How strong do you think I'd HAVE to make it to get into the competition I want to run in?"  Instead you want to make it as safe as you can.  I've seen guys trying to get into a race or solo with fake roll bars made out of water pipe, and in one case, I found exhaust pipe underneath all the rubber the guy had glued over it (doing tech, we insist that they have a 1/8" hole so we can see thickness. We also used to carry a drill if they didn't!)

[InTheSky831]

Welded is only as strong as whatever you are welding it to. If the underlying metal is thin (or in the case of old cars, has corrosion) then the bar can just tear away too easily.  You have to assess each case individually, but often we have welded to the existing structure and then drilled so that we could also bolt through the plate, the underlying metal and a support plate behind the panel we welded to.

This thread is a welcome change from the usual "How strong do you think I'd HAVE to make it to get into the competition I want to run in?"  Instead you want to make it as safe as you can.  I've seen guys trying to get into a race or solo with fake roll bars made out of water pipe, and in one case, I found exhaust pipe underneath all the rubber the guy had glued over it (doing tech, we insist that they have a 1/8" hole so we can see thickness. We also used to carry a drill if they didn't!)

completely agree with what he stated. every situation is going to be different, as is what the individual wants to try and do with said vehicle.

with a jeep/rock crawler, TYPICALLY if you roll its low speed and only a few. I said typically because weve all seen the vids of vehicles rolling down hills 15 times lol. In that situation, with a heavier car, you want some very very very strong metal. I will also agree that if bolted CORRECTLY a bolt in cage is just as strong. but in my situation, that is not what suited me.

something like, the kappa, you have very limited space. I do not plan on COMPETING with my set up, and I cant stress that enough. it is not supposed to be a comp set up at this point. ALL I want to do is run practice days at local circuits and solo runs at drift events. which I will be able to do. my sky is a street car, something I drive EVERY day. im short, so I had more space to work with than the "average" person. I also created space with the seats/wheel.

its going to be near impossible for you to have a good street setup with the stock wheel and seats. there is almost no space.

any type of mods like this are def not for everyone. from what I have gathered, a lot of our members would hate this if the car was driven everyday. this is for those of us who really want to push our cars and ourselves because of love of the SPORT not because we just want to cruise around topless. NOTHING is wrong with that though!!! to each his own.

honestly, id like to see other members think outside of the box and top our design. I really do.