Author Topic: KAPPA ROLL BAR FABRICATION/INSTALL (Read 25085 times)

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 18, 2014, 03:01:47 PM »

for building mine, we used the Formula Drift rulebook as that, for me, is what I needed to be the closest to.

wspohn · « **Reply #51 on:** February 18, 2014, 03:09:03 PM »

The only way I can see to have a race legal roll bar for a driver of normal stature is to have the main hoop back against the rear bulkhead and to have braces from the top of the hoop, going through the trunk area to plates underneath it. Few drivers would be willing to be unable to put up their tops, or to limit use of the trunk. This is a problem with all sports cars that have a tonneau panel (that's what it is called, technically) immediately behind the seats - there is not enough space to mount braces at the required angle. Braces to the front, are often not allowed as primary braces, but even if they are they have rather obvious disadvantages as far as utility is concerned.

Good point about the Jeep - impacts are likely to be fairly low compared to race cars. Last roll over I saw at the track was at better than 80 mph and the car flipped three times before landing on it's roof!

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #52 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:16:35 PM »

(Prediction- Elff comment about Jeep roll overs....)

elff · « **Reply #53 on:** February 18, 2014, 11:22:40 PM »

One time
At band camp.........

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #54 on:** February 19, 2014, 01:41:38 AM »

...he stuck a Toyota Land Cruiser in a crevice

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #55 on:** February 19, 2014, 09:46:27 AM »

Quote from: Sol Asylum on February 19, 2014, 01:41:38 AM

...he stuck a Toyota Land Cruiser in a crevice

ouch

elff · « **Reply #56 on:** February 19, 2014, 11:37:08 AM »

Poor Land Cruiser shouldn't try to follow jeeps

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #57 on:** February 19, 2014, 02:08:13 PM »

The Toyota was just lucky that it found a crevice that was willing.

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #58 on:** February 19, 2014, 04:26:16 PM »

Was it a TToyota?

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #59 on:** February 19, 2014, 04:30:25 PM »

No it was slicker.

rotarypiston · « **Reply #60 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:10:27 PM »

Quote from: wspohn on February 18, 2014, 02:39:14 PM

Welded is only as strong as whatever you are welding it to. If the underlying metal is thin (or in the case of old cars, has corrosion) then the bar can just tear away too easily. You have to assess each case individually, but often we have welded to the existing structure and then drilled so that we could also bolt through the plate, the underlying metal and a support plate behind the panel we welded to.

This thread is a welcome change from the usual "How strong do you think I'd HAVE to make it to get into the competition I want to run in?" Instead you want to make it as safe as you can. I've seen guys trying to get into a race or solo with fake roll bars made out of water pipe, and in one case, I found exhaust pipe underneath all the rubber the guy had glued over it (doing tech, we insist that they have a 1/8" hole so we can see thickness. We also used to carry a drill if they didn't!)

So is there a way to use these "mounting plates" on all of the points on the kappa chassis and have the roll bar then bolt to all of these mounting plates?

I strictly want this roll bar for off-road use only. As soon as I am done at the track, I plan to take it off immediately.

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #61 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:38:10 PM »

if youre car is a street car, youre going to HAVE to run a hard top and NO soft top if you want a PROPER roll bar. the BEST way is to have the rear bars going through the trunk.

there is no other way if you want to keep stock interior. you HAVE tot ake out the soft top.

that's why I did what I did. I don't want a hardtop. if I did I would have bought a 350z lol.

you've got your work cut out for you my friend, especially if you want it bolt in. it wont be a fun project

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #62 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:39:00 PM »

when you take out the soft top, youre gonna really regret it when you go to put it back in. they are not fun at all and require lots and lots of adjustment to get to fit right again

rotarypiston · « **Reply #63 on:** February 19, 2014, 08:04:05 PM »

Quote from: InTheSky831 on February 19, 2014, 07:38:10 PM

if youre car is a street car, youre going to HAVE to run a hard top and NO soft top if you want a PROPER roll bar. the BEST way is to have the rear bars going through the trunk.

there is no other way if you want to keep stock interior. you HAVE tot ake out the soft top.

that's why I did what I did. I don't want a hardtop. if I did I would have bought a 350z lol.

you've got your work cut out for you my friend, especially if you want it bolt in. it wont be a fun project

So yours is not a proper roll bar? what makes yours not proper?

The way yours looks it seems to work and could work for me.

elff · « **Reply #64 on:** February 19, 2014, 08:57:13 PM »

It has no support going over the area where you sit
So technically its not proper as it wont prevent the windshield area from collapsing.

As far as the plates go. Your thought process is not how it works
The tubes get welded to the plates and the plates then get bolted

rotarypiston · « **Reply #65 on:** February 19, 2014, 10:36:35 PM »

Quote from: elff on February 19, 2014, 08:57:13 PM

It has no support going over the area where you sit
So technically its not proper as it wont prevent the windshield area from collapsing.

As far as the plates go. Your thought process is not how it works
The tubes get welded to the plates and the plates then get bolted

Would it pass for an open track day?

I was thinking there would be 2 plates. One plate welded to the car and one plate with the tube that is welded, then bolt those together.

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #66 on:** February 20, 2014, 09:50:56 AM »

as I said 100 times already, this roll bar is suitable for what I WANT TO DO, you need to check with YOUR local tech inspection.

as far as it not being proper, it doesn't have FULL rearward down bars. with a roll bar normally you don't run them forward into the passenger area for the reasons previously stated.

no ROLL BAR is to keep the windshield from collapsing. that is not its purpose. its purpose is to ASSIST in supporting the front windshield by helping to take the weight off of it in the event of a rollover.

It would most likely pass for your track day but you need to check.

and yes, that's how you make a bolt in plate. but like I said, to bolt it in and out you have to remove the top to access those bolts...

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #67 on:** February 20, 2014, 09:52:15 AM »

I still firmly believe that my bar is the best on YET that we have seen, THAT KEEPS THE SOFT TOP. there are better designs for cars with a hardtop, but it involves cutting stuff I don't want to cut. and losing a soft top.

TomatoSoup · « **Reply #68 on:** February 20, 2014, 10:05:10 AM »

Ignore the naysayers #831, I think your roll bar looks peachy!

I would like to see photos of how (and where) the rearward support bars work, though.

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #69 on:** February 20, 2014, 10:29:56 AM »

I did post some! there are support bars welded to the rear bulkhead, and then welded to the hoop

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #70 on:** February 20, 2014, 10:30:18 AM »

hard to see since we cut the tulip panel oh so clean, it hides a good portion of the bars

elff · « **Reply #71 on:** February 20, 2014, 11:59:34 AM »

InTheSky

My comment was not intended to put down your design. It was a technical answer to Rotary's question.

I personally think you did a fantastic job and I believe it is structurally sound and would do it's job.

Quote from: rotarypiston on February 19, 2014, 10:36:35 PM

Would it pass for an open track day?

I was thinking there would be 2 plates. One plate welded to the car and one plate with the tube that is welded, then bolt those together.

Track Rules vary from track to track.
The only way to get an answer to that question is to get a copy of the track's safety requirements and to talk to their safety team.

You would have exposed bolts in the method you describe, but it could work.

InTheSky831 · « **Reply #72 on:** February 20, 2014, 12:05:13 PM »

Elff, I know you weren't being negative! Although im the first one to admit my design is not the OPTIMAL, it works for what I need and I have to trust it with my life.

im not against the bolt in, but its more work

elff · « **Reply #73 on:** February 20, 2014, 12:18:42 PM »

on our cars a bolt in would be a giant hassle and I don't think we have the real estate to properly fit plates

wspohn · « **Reply #74 on:** February 20, 2014, 12:24:01 PM »

Comment on designing a bar - you need to weld the hoop tubing to a mounting plate which can then be bolted or welded to the car. If you are bolting or riveting instead of welding, you need a back up plate on the other side of the panel.

It is all here:

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2013%20GCR-%20January.pdf

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Author Topic: KAPPA ROLL BAR FABRICATION/INSTALL (Read 25085 times)