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Author Topic: Z0K Alignment  (Read 4706 times)

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Offline roxer

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Z0K Alignment
« on: October 07, 2014, 07:53:48 PM »
I am taking the car for the alignment tomorrow and have a question about the TOE settings. I have read here many times that TOE should be 0, but the Z0K has Front .10 +/- .2 deg.  What should I ask for, the alignment as written in the spec or ask for TOE to be zero?

Also want to say this is my daily driver. Advice appreciated before I get this done.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 09:07:19 PM by roxer »
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Offline POS VETT

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 09:25:30 PM »
Set toe at zero and see if you like it.

Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2014, 10:06:38 AM »
After talking to the tech, he said they no longer need the special tool for the rear. Their new hunter alignment rack does it now.  Anyone know if this is possible or not?
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Offline POS VETT

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 10:36:06 AM »
It's for "rear caster". The rear wheels don't turn in an appreciable angle, yet there is adjustability in rear caster. There maybe a device or a feature built into the alignment racks to measure rear caster. I wouldn't worry about rear caster if so happened that your car was aligned on an older rack.

Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2014, 01:24:56 PM »
Well, thought I had a dealership that I could count on...but.   :(

Anyway, my alignment is now:

Camber
Front -1.6L  -1.7R
Rear  -1.5L  -1.5R

Caster
Front  8.0L  7.7R
Rear   ?L     ?R

Toe:
Front  .08L  .08R
Rear   .08L  .08R

When I asked him about rear caster, he said "it's fine where its at" and wouldn't do any more because my car was tying up the alignment rack (4.3 hour alignment) and he had two appointments waiting. I told him I would bring it back to do the rear caster and he said they would have to find the tool - red flag.  :gaah:  So now I have sort of a Z0K alignment.

At least he made sure I didn't over torque the front upper ball joints. My digital torque wrench took a crap while doing the BB brace.  The car snaps to center and rides straight. I am hoping to find someone local that will finish it up. At least for now I'm not going to eat up tires.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2014, 07:00:30 PM »
I think I have said this before but will repeat it.  Corner balancing and alignment at DDM, they actually know what they are doing.
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Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 10:14:58 PM »
I think I have said this before but will repeat it.  Corner balancing and alignment at DDM, they actually know what they are doing.

Agreed. I just needed to get something done until I can get down there.
2002 Isuzu Rodeo Sport - Still kicking!
2008 Polar Sky Redline - Auto - Fully Loaded
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Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2014, 08:36:33 AM »
Got to drive the car in a pretty heavy rain storm last night.  I was curious if the alignment would screw with wet weather driving.  Guess not or maybe its not aggressive enough to cause issues.  I love the way it handles for a street car now.  I think the suspension is starting to settle down as the ride has gotten a little harsher, but not bad.  And that fender gap 4x4 look is gone too.

Should I have it rechecked now or wait a while?
2002 Isuzu Rodeo Sport - Still kicking!
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Offline Kelu

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 01:27:52 PM »
Got to drive the car in a pretty heavy rain storm last night.  I was curious if the alignment would screw with wet weather driving.  Guess not or maybe its not aggressive enough to cause issues.  I love the way it handles for a street car now.  I think the suspension is starting to settle down as the ride has gotten a little harsher, but not bad.  And that fender gap 4x4 look is gone too.

Should I have it rechecked now or wait a while?
truck wheel gap gone  :thumbs:
I would wait like a week of daily driving.

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Offline GXP_Matt

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 04:31:27 PM »
Got to drive the car in a pretty heavy rain storm last night.  I was curious if the alignment would screw with wet weather driving.  Guess not or maybe its not aggressive enough to cause issues.  I love the way it handles for a street car now.  I think the suspension is starting to settle down as the ride has gotten a little harsher, but not bad.  And that fender gap 4x4 look is gone too.

Should I have it rechecked now or wait a while?

Cool it on the rear caster dude, it barely makes a difference.  It determines how much your toe changes when your suspension is compressed.  On street tires driving around the road you will not be able to tell if it was changed at all because you aren't generating enough lateral grip.  Your front camber is where you are giving up performance if you really want to know, it should be 2.5+ degrees for best lateral grip.  Also your rear toe should be slightly negative, rear toe-out causes the car to be nervous.  But again, if you aren't racing it you won't be able to tell, where you have it right now is eprfectly fine for a street car.  Also you can't corner balance your car with just the Z0k suspension.
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Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 07:10:20 PM »
Cool it on the rear caster dude, it barely makes a difference.  It determines how much your toe changes when your suspension is compressed.  On street tires driving around the road you will not be able to tell if it was changed at all because you aren't generating enough lateral grip.  Your front camber is where you are giving up performance if you really want to know, it should be 2.5+ degrees for best lateral grip.  Also your rear toe should be slightly negative, rear toe-out causes the car to be nervous.  But again, if you aren't racing it you won't be able to tell, where you have it right now is eprfectly fine for a street car.  Also you can't corner balance your car with just the Z0k suspension.

Thanks for the information, it's good to hear from a vet. I actually asked because I didn't think the suspension had finally settled and may need to be tweaked after it did. Wondering if it mattered. I like the way it handles now and don't want to change it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 07:22:04 PM by roxer »
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Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2014, 09:39:12 PM »
So your recommendation is to add more negative toe in the rear if I get more aggressive?  Is -.08 rear toe a better choice if I go 2.5 with front camber?
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Offline POS VETT

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2014, 06:33:13 AM »
Toe out makes for a different animal. My Z06 runs toe out in the front and my mechanic, who's also a multi Corvette owner and racer, wouldn't let me have toe out in the rear. In no way I'm saying that you should not try it; this serves as merely a heads up.

Also, front camber, and the rear too, should be in negative; +2.5 degrees would create unwanted effects and results. Now, setting front camber at NEGATIVE 2.5 degrees may cause some unwanted consequences in a street-driven car. IMO, what you have is fine; I'd dial in rear camber closer to -1. That said, mine runs -2.2 degree front and -1.5 degree rear; the car is aligned with me in the driver seat. Mine is a strictly street car.

As for now, get some miles with this setting. See if you like it.


Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2014, 07:45:27 AM »
Toe out makes for a different animal. My Z06 runs toe out in the front and my mechanic, who's also a multi Corvette owner and racer, wouldn't let me have toe out in the rear. In no way I'm saying that you should not try it; this serves as merely a heads up.

Also, front camber, and the rear too, should be in negative; +2.5 degrees would create unwanted effects and results. Now, setting front camber at NEGATIVE 2.5 degrees may cause some unwanted consequences in a street-driven car. IMO, what you have is fine; I'd dial in rear camber closer to -1. That said, mine runs -2.2 degree front and -1.5 degree rear; the car is aligned with me in the driver seat. Mine is a strictly street car.

As for now, get some miles with this setting. See if you like it.

Why I love this forum - awesome information all around. I get to take to see my dad this weekend in Tenn.  Some really nice roads to test it on going there and back.
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Offline kwtoxman

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2014, 11:56:14 PM »
Toe out on the front and rear is a hot setup for serious AX on the solstice. As I understand it makes the car transition very well in the lively and tight AX course environment. As a street car, that behaviour can be much less optimal as the car may hunt the road more.

I personally went with a neutral toe in f/r as I'm not trying to win AX nationals.

It all depends what you want for feel and handling.

I'm running similar camber to POSvette, and my set up numbers were shared in the definitive alignment thread on solsticeforum.com

« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 11:04:21 AM by kwtoxman »
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Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 04:49:36 AM »
Toe out and a healthy dose of negative camber chewed up the inside edges of my tires in short order.  Fair warning.

http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,10472.msg177196.html#msg177196

Offline roxer

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 08:32:28 AM »
I'm hoping that leaving it as is will go well with tire wear. We'll see soon enough. The handling is very good for street and enough for the curves in the mountains. Bump steer was affected some by the suspension changes, but no where near serious. When GM came out with the Z0K alignment specs, was it geared more towards AutoX or road race? A little of everything?  Just curious.
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Offline Robotech

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 11:15:33 PM »
Toe out and a healthy dose of negative camber chewed up the inside edges of my tires in short order.  Fair warning.

http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,10472.msg177196.html#msg177196

 My understanding is that sever wear is more often the result of toe issues and not camber issues. Did you try and isolate the issue by changing just toe or camber and see what your results were?

Generally, toe in gives you more stability and toe out gives you more aggressive transition and turn in. A car with 0 rear toe and a slight bit of toe out in the front may feel "twitchy" on the road as it wants to respond quickly. I have mine set to 0 toe all around and the car is very responsive but not twitchy on the street.  It does feel like it wants to "track" when there are ruts in the road on the freeway more than it did with the stock settings.

It is also my understanding that the setup where GM called for -2.5 front camber and -1.5 rear camber was more for Autocross but these settings would also work on a larger track I'm sure. There are probably more folks on here that know more about the whys and whats of this setup than I do.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 03:11:30 PM by Robotech »

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Z0K Alignment
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2014, 07:46:00 AM »
Post 12 in that thread answers your question.  I left the camber as-is, and only asked them to adjust the toe settings front and rear.  I now have a slight amount of toe-in front and rear.  Turn-in isn't as crisp anymore, but I'm not willing to chew up tires on my daily driver.  I also replaced the D1 Star Specs with Bridgestone Potenza S04 "Pole Position" tires.  So far they are wearing much more evenly.

 

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