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Author Topic: I know it doesn't belong here/terrible plane crash Germanwings 03/24/2015  (Read 6038 times)

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Offline Ironhide

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Sorry, I know it doesn't belong here, but maybe someone is interested in the horrible plane crash. :( :sorry:



Yesterday a Germanwings ( belongs to Lufthansa) A320 crashed in the French Alps.
150 people were killed when the plane hit a mountain at a speed of 700 km/h.
There have been 72 German, 47 Spanish and 31 other nationalities on board the plane.
16 of them have been German highschool students and 2 babies.
I hope that I don't know anyone of the crew members, it would break my heart.



« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 07:54:18 PM by Ironhide »
Oliver  :usa:

Offline Critterman

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2 Americans and 2 Brits were on board as well.
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Offline Ironhide

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2 Americans and 2 Brits were on board as well.

Thanks, they didn't tell us about that here.
Oliver  :usa:

Offline Sol Asylum

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Now they are saying the copilot locked the pilot out of the cockpit and did this intentionally.  That's pretty messed up.
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Offline elff

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SA,

Do you have anymore information on that?

Offline elff

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Offline Ironhide

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SA,

Do you have anymore information on that?

Update! Update!

The co-pilot deliberately crashed the plan.

He committed suicide!

He locked the cockpit door an started the descent of the plane.

German police  searched his apartment.

Good friend of him said that he was depressive.

http://edition.cnn.com/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/26/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html




« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 01:56:23 PM by Ironhide »
Oliver  :usa:

Offline ihawk95

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This is what I saw on ABC's newsfeed this morning.  ABC said the flight recorder indicates the pilot directed the copilot to take the controls and then the pilot can be heard leaving the cockpit.  After this, the data recorder indicates the plane was put into a maual descent.  The pilot could be heard frantically banging on the door of the cockpit trying to get back in before the crash.  Also said the copilot can be heard breathing until and he did not respond to contact attempts from air traffic controllers. 

Tragic.  I understand in being in such a horrible place you want to take your own life, but that wasn't the choice of the passengers on board.  It will be interesting now to see what airlines do to ensure the mental well being of their pilots.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 02:19:17 PM by ihawk95 »

Offline critter

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This is what I saw on ABC's newsfeed this morning.  ABC said the flight recorder indicates the pilot directed the copilot to take the controls and then the pilot can be heard leaving the cockpit.  After this, the data recorder indicates the plane was put into a maual descent.  The pilot could be heard frantically banging on the door of the cockpit trying to get back in before the crash.  Also said the copilot can be heard breathing until and he did not respond to contact attempts from air traffic controllers. 

Tragic.  I understand in being in such a horrible place you want to take your own life, but that wasn't the choice of the passengers on board.  It will be interesting now to see what airlines do to ensure the mental well being of their pilots.

I hear what you are thinking but good luck to them on the 'mental well being' thing especially with the kind of laws that are in place, the strength of the unions, the potential cost of litigation and the time involved in trying to first identify a problem and then to address it. By that time it will be too late. By nature those testing don't want to find those on the other side of the table mentally problematic. So, they don't and probably won't. Yes, I am a cynic. The only thing you can do is go about your business like your number won;t be called and live to see another day. There are just too many incidents (this and others) where the first comments from those who spent time close ot these individuals said that they noticed nothing out of the ordinary and they had no indications that disaster was around the corner. The part that is a head scratcher to me in this case is that with an open microphone and the knowledge of a voice recorder that the copilot said nothing idly or to anyone else to be heard afterwards.
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Offline Ironhide

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What needs to be changed in Europe is:

1. always two men in the cockpit -> law/rule in the USA!

2. same procedure like in the USA for becoming a pilot.

In addition to that they need to change door locking system for the cockpit door.
Oliver  :usa:

Offline Sol Asylum

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As a pilot you are required to get a medical exam, the medical is good for a specified time and the extent of the exam is also more in depth depending on the kind of pilots license you will be using private versus commercial.  Even for a private medical there are questions about depression which can prevent you from passing the medical in which case you can't fly. 
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Offline critter

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As a pilot you are required to get a medical exam, the medical is good for a specified time and the extent of the exam is also more in depth depending on the kind of pilots license you will be using private versus commercial.  Even for a private medical there are questions about depression which can prevent you from passing the medical in which case you can't fly.
So, why would you answer the questions in such a way as to jeopardize your job and livelihood? I don't see that this is a mechanism to count on. On the door thing on the other post - they did it this way so no one could get access to the cockpit. if you 'fix' it so the door can be opened externally then it will be the weak link in the system. if it can be opened then it will be....
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Offline critter

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What needs to be changed in Europe is:

1. always two men in the cockpit -> law/rule in the USA!

2. same procedure like in the USA for becoming a pilot.

In addition to that they need to change door locking system for the cockpit door.

I think it is two people in the cockpit. If the pilot or copliot leaves then a flight crew member has to take their place in the cocpit until they return (not seated in a flight seat). I am surprised if Europe doesn't also do this to a certain extent.
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Offline Jim

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Very sad that someone takes the lives of so many. Maybe the pilot seats should be equipped with (and maybe they are) sensors that wouldn't allow disabling autopilot unless both seats are occupied. Just a thought and probably something better that already exists.
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Offline Ironhide

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I think it is two people in the cockpit. If the pilot or copliot leaves then a flight crew member has to take their place in the cocpit until they return (not seated in a flight seat). I am surprised if Europe doesn't also do this to a certain extent.

Norwegian Airline will be the first to change this.

Unfortunately in Europe it is allowed  that the pilot or the copilot stays alone in the  cockpit.
Oliver  :usa:

Offline Sting Ya

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Unfortunately this is what our world has become you can't send your kids to school , you can't go shopping at a mall ,you can't attend or participate in a sporting event ,you can't go to work , you can't enjoy your life and take a vacation for fear that some lunatic with an axe to grind is going to make you the object of his hatred .May God have mercy on the souls of all those poor individuals who were in the wrong place at the wrong time !   

Offline Sol Asylum

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So, why would you answer the questions in such a way as to jeopardize your job and livelihood? I don't see that this is a mechanism to count on. On the door thing on the other post - they did it this way so no one could get access to the cockpit. if you 'fix' it so the door can be opened externally then it will be the weak link in the system. if it can be opened then it will be....

There are written questions and then Q&A with the doctor, not all the questions are so blunt that there is an obvious answer.  Of course a lot depends on the doctor giving the exam and I can only speak for how things are here in the US.  Is there a better way?  Probably but odds are you are going to have someone get past the system no matter what you do.
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Offline LatinVenom

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It is hard to understand that someone would commit suicide and knowingly would take 150 lives with him.
I believe once there is more digging into this tragedy, there is going to be some link to a terrorist group.
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Offline critter

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My sense is there is little to zero chance of this. These groups want the notoriety. If a group was involved they would have been all over this already. It's cred and recruiting for them. I'm wondering whether after setting the autopilot to 100 feet the guy knocked himself out with something. That might explain the no talking and heavy breathing only on the tape. Who knows? No one. Thats who.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 08:47:50 PM by critter »
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Offline critter

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Norwegian Airline will be the first to change this.

Unfortunately in Europe it is allowed  that the pilot or the copilot stays alone in the  cockpit.
On the news they reported that immediately Europe is adopting the US regs.
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Offline elff

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I think a terrorist group would have claimed credit by now.
They do not have any sense of humility.

Right now we have to suffer these stupid pedestrian bumpers on new cars enforced by European regulations. 
Its time a sensible safety regulation is pushed to them

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It is a very sad and tragic event.   My heart goes out to those innocent passengers.
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Offline ihawk95

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It is hard to understand that someone would commit suicide and knowingly would take 150 lives with him.
I believe once there is more digging into this tragedy, there is going to be some link to a terrorist group.

Well that's what I'm saying with regards to taking the passengers with him.  But a person does strange things in that state of mind and they think only of themselves, whether they be in physical or mental pain.  He didn't give a thought to the passengers on the plane.  He was only thinking about ending his own pain.
I don't think it's terrorism.  I agree that some group would have been all over it by now.

But crap...I will be flying a lot more here in the near future.  In fact, I'm flying next week.  Jeesh...now I get to worry about suicidal pilots!?!  I know stuff can happen:  mechanical failure (at least the pilot has a chance to save us), terrorists (I still might have a chance at living through it), but suicidal pilot that decides he's going to crash the plane...my odds aren't so good!  He's going to crash that plane right!  :(

Like I said, it will be very interesting to see how the airlines respond to this.  And here's a question:  Which rules do the airlines follow for international flights?  Let's say I'm on a Lufthansa (United partner) from Germany to the US.  The flight crew is typically German since the flight originates in Germany.  Are they flying by European regulations, or US regulations? 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 09:33:21 AM by ihawk95 »

Offline elff

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I agree.
Depression makes people do things that a non depressed person just can't comprehend.  You can not apply logic to it. 

Offline Critterman

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Diana,  All flights in and out of the states regardless of origin must comply with US regulations,  I'm not sure what happens if there is a stop outside of the US first.  Not sure about that leg.  Most if not all of the governing aviation bodies have said that they are incorporating the US policy immediately.
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension
Lambo Doors

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

 

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