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Author Topic: Water Meth Injection  (Read 3931 times)

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Offline critter

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Water Meth Injection
« on: March 30, 2015, 11:12:05 AM »
I can't say that i have seen this topic up for discussion - at least not as long as I have been popping in and out. I am considering this but want to get some feedback from maybe some who have taken the plunge on the good, the bad, and hopefully no ugly on this topic. I don't knwo enough about this to even ask specfiic questions so have at it and educate me and possibly others on this....Critter
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Offline IBDRINKEN

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 01:52:18 PM »
This is my second solstice that I have run meth on. The first one still has it going on three plus years. I went with the Aem Kit and I'm using my windshield wiper res as the meth tank so I don't have to install an additional tank. DDM did my installs and tunning for both of them and and here is my dyno sheet from my first solstice with the meth on. It went from 289 to 320. He mounted the pump under the car.





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AEM Water/Meth Injection

Offline critter

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 02:05:48 PM »
I understand that most people use the existing container and by the color I assume you are using Boost Juice (or similar) rather than the -20degree windshield washer fluid. Where does the system kick itself in? Heavy boost? moderate boost? DO you feel it cut in? What were the changes in the tune that had to be made to accomodate the system? Thanks for the first post....
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Offline IBDRINKEN

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 02:21:27 PM »
I order my mix from Devils own vs mixing it just because this way it's consistent. Mine starts spraying at 10 psi and I have a little red light that turns green when it starts spraying on my gauge pod. I can't feel it kick it but you can feel the power difference. On the tune side im not sure that a Dr. Dave question. Here is the link where I buy my mix from.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/premixed-methanol/125-devilsown-brew.html
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AEM Water/Meth Injection

Offline Jim

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 02:46:27 PM »
I have run methanol injection on my vehicles for the last 10+ years and on 4 different turbocharged setups. I run a Devils Own kit on my Sky with the pump mounted under the vehicle and am also using the washer reservoir for my tank. My kit is a non-progressive kit and I currently have the spray starting at 18psi. I have an adjustable pressure switch on the cold side intercooler pipe and my spray nozzle is just before the throttle body elbow. (It is the black piece with the red ring on it).

On 91 octane fuel, I was able to run 22psi at 12* timing and no KR without the injection system on and ran 23-24psi at 14.5* timing and no KR with it on and with the spray starting at 12psi. I'm currently running E43, 27psi at 24* timing and no KR with the spray starting at 18psi and it loves it.

I know there are many that think it's not a good idea for some reason or another but I've used it long enough that I'm a believer in the benefits of it. [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]
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Offline critter

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 03:11:39 PM »
I understand that water/meth is a positive in that it keeps the valves etc cleaner than burning straight pump fuel. I guess that when the boost kicks in to whatever the trip point is the additive(s) help clean the chambers. Also, something about cooler intake - don't quite get the connection but that's what this thread is supposed to do I guess. I don't believe that anything in the engine needs to modded because of it (like nitrous) and haven't heard any horror stories - at least so far. The day is early yet.....
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 03:30:23 PM »
The water/meth injection goes in to the intake, where as the gasoline goes directly into the cylinder.  The water/meth then hits the back of the valves on it's way into the cylinders.
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 03:38:06 PM »
I would think the only harm is with potential over discharge of fluid in to the intake. And I'm not sure that can happen unless the pump is stuck "on"
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Offline Jim

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 03:48:01 PM »
It definitely cools the charged air when it is spraying. On my last turbo setup which was an aircooled VW, it lowered the intake temperature by a solid 50 degrees. That setup ran hot to begin with so 175* temps were not unheard of but with the meth kit, it dropped the temps down to an average of 125*.

I think one of the most important things is not to run too large of a nozzle as you could wash the oil from your cylinders away. I run a -7 nozzle size which is 9.x gallons per hour and looking at Devils Own nozzle calculator, they recommend a -5 or 7 gallons per hour nozzle.

I use the -7 nozzle as I'm also using it as a make-shift injector for extra fuel since I'm running higher boost on E43. Someday I will add the actual 5th injector kit and retune but this current setup is working great. I mix my own juice and have a 55 gallon drum of methanol to mix from.

On the tune, you'll be able to make more power by running a bit more boost and timing but you'll also be able to run a bit less fuel up top which will also help make more power. If you've got HP Tuners, run some good logs and keep them for before and after comparisons and you'll see the differences. Always make sure you're logging KR and if you're not able to tune it yourself, make sure you use a good tuner like Dave as there are more than just a couple of tables that you can change to get the full benefits of the kit.

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Offline roxer

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2015, 07:47:45 AM »
IBDRINKEN:

Whose charge pipe is that?  Did you have a bung welded on and then powder coated?  Was it done in the shop that day?  That's a nice clean job.  I will have DDM install mine, just curious how he does it with the charge pipe.

IBDRINKEN/Jim:

Did your gas mileage change at all (other than you punching it all the time  :cool:)?  Just curious.
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Offline Dave@DDMworks

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 07:57:59 AM »
IBDRINKEN:

Whose charge pipe is that?  Did you have a bung welded on and then powder coated?  Was it done in the shop that day?  That's a nice clean job.  I will have DDM install mine, just curious how he does it with the charge pipe.

IBDRINKEN/Jim:

Did your gas mileage change at all (other than you punching it all the time  :cool:)?  Just curious.

Those are our charge pipes, we just welded an aluminum bung on them for the meth spray and powdercoated them. We can do it in a day.
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Offline IBDRINKEN

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 08:55:02 AM »
As dave metioned already he did all the work in a day. I have a very heavy foot so I honestly don't know about the fuel mileage

IBDRINKEN:

Whose charge pipe is that?  Did you have a bung welded on and then powder coated?  Was it done in the shop that day?  That's a nice clean job.  I will have DDM install mine, just curious how he does it with the charge pipe.

IBDRINKEN/Jim:

Did your gas mileage change at all (other than you punching it all the time  :cool:)?  Just curious.
13.5@101.90
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AEM Water/Meth Injection

Offline roxer

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 09:45:56 AM »
Those are our charge pipes, we just welded an aluminum bung on them for the meth spray and powdercoated them. We can do it in a day.

Excellent work Dave - looks fantastic.
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Offline roxer

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 09:46:52 AM »
I have a very heavy foot so I honestly don't know about the fuel mileage...

Kinda figured that.   :D  :cool:
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Offline Jim

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 11:03:10 AM »
The methanol injection kit will not change your gas mileage. To me, it's a safety net for those full throttle, high boost runs and since it cools the combustion chamber, it's like running higher octane fuel. You might feel like punching the throttle more often so your mileage may take a hit because of that but if your driving habits don't change, neither will your mileage.

My average mpg (measured by the odometer and fuel usage - not the DIC) is ~22.5mpg. That's about 70% around town and 30% highway and with a heavy foot. For some reason, I just have to open it up every chance I get which is at least twice on the way to work and twice on the way home. If you're running straight pump gas, you'll get a little better mileage than my setup as my mileage runs a bit less because of the E43.
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Offline Kelu

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2015, 01:16:39 PM »
On 91 octane fuel, I was able to run 22psi at 12* timing and no KR without the injection system on and ran 23-24psi at 14.5* timing and no KR with it on and with the spray starting at 12psi.
This kind of info I was looking too, thanks a lot for sharing.  :thumbs:
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Offline Jim

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2015, 01:31:41 PM »
That was stock turbo - before I added the WR3. Methanol was one of my first upgrades because the best fuel available to me at the time was 91 octane and I've had a meth kit on all of my turbo cars in the past so it only made sense to me to put one on the Sky.

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Offline roxer

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2015, 10:28:09 PM »
Looks like it's a done deal for me. I'll have Dave install and do his tune. Should set me up good for the turbo install later. Now if I can just learn to keep mah foot out a tha turbo... I have to say Dave does great work. Still loving that short shifter!
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Offline roxer

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2015, 07:48:48 AM »
Did either of you get the AEM flow gauge with your set up?  Do you think it is necessary?
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Offline IBDRINKEN

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2015, 08:07:07 AM »
Did either of you get the AEM flow gauge with your set up?  Do you think it is necessary?

Nope no gauge for me
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AEM Water/Meth Injection

Offline Jim

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2015, 12:28:53 PM »
No gauge for me either. That gauge costs almost as much as the methanol kit. If you opt for anything special, the only recommendation I would have would be a low fluid warning light and maybe a light to let you know when the system is spraying. Getting wrapped up in actual pressures and dealing with a custom gauge program would just be unnecessary on our setups until we start approaching double the WHP we have now - like 800whp.
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Offline IBDRINKEN

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Re: Water Meth Injection
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2015, 12:51:03 PM »
I use the light which turns from red to green when it's spraying
13.5@101.90
320HP 358 Torque
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Dakota Digital EG, Boost Gauage, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure
DDM Probeam, Backbone, IC Pipes, Coilcover Cross Brace
JPM Shifter, Center Console
DDM Intercooler
AEM Water/Meth Injection

 

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