Author Topic: DC front strut bar (Read 19321 times)

Napi · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2015, 07:31:12 AM »

The venom brace was delivered last week and following the Standard issues with German customs, I was able to install it yersterday.
Overall, good 30 minutes of (easy) work.
There was no Need to replace the A/C-lines or sth else.

So it`s basically "Plug`n`play", all I needed was a small ratchet and a spanner.

On a first short "test drive" I had the Feeling that the cars front is a Little bit "calmer", making the entire car at least feel as if it has more traction... May just be a Feeling though...

Anyhow, I like the brace. I will give it some real testing in the next weeks and maybe leave some more "Feelings to share with you" later.

Napi · « **Reply #26 on:** August 10, 2015, 01:21:15 PM »

In the extended testing I experienced some unexpected issues.
Whenever the engine revs up to more than 3.000rpm (regardless of the gears etc.), some oscillating vibration occurs in the engine area, directly transmitted to the passengers via the steering wheel and basically the entire chassis.
The moment I remove the brace, the vibration is gone with it.
Thinking I may have done something wrong during the installation (though it is easy go install anyways) I had a local garage do the second installation.
But as soon as the brace was installed, the vibration was back, too. And following the "second removal", the vibration ceased again.

Do you have any experiences with this problem?

Best regards,

Napi.

LatinVenom · « **Reply #27 on:** August 10, 2015, 03:53:40 PM »

I have never heard of this issue, my suggestion would be inspect your engine bay and see if you find something not properly tied down.
The reason is the brace will not let the chassis flex and if the engine or transmission is not properly secure this may cause the vibration.
Do you have a NA car or GXP?. Was this car ever involved in an accident?.
Did you check once the brace was install there was clearance on both sides of the brace tube and are the lines on the driver side secure and not touching the brace, same with the fan controller.

Sting Ya · « **Reply #28 on:** August 10, 2015, 04:06:03 PM »

Put mine on last year and have had no issues as far as vibration goes if anything the car feels stiffer

Napi · « **Reply #29 on:** August 10, 2015, 04:33:46 PM »

Quote from: LatinVenom on August 10, 2015, 03:53:40 PM

I have never heard of this issue, my suggestion would be inspect your engine bay and see if you find something not properly tied down.

I did. Neither I, nor the garage found anything except a leaking steering fluid line which is most likely not connected to this problem in any way...

Quote from: LatinVenom on August 10, 2015, 03:53:40 PM

The reason is the brace will not let the chassis flex and if the engine or transmission is not properly secure this may cause the vibration.

I wasn't able to find any loose parts... Anyhow, isn't ir weird to have the vibrations start at 3000rpm in every gear? Btw the vibration is way stronger than the accompaniing sounds.

Quote from: LatinVenom on August 10, 2015, 03:53:40 PM

Do you have a NA car or GXP?.

2008 Opel GT. Basically a Sky Redline with Z0K-Bars.

Quote from: LatinVenom on August 10, 2015, 03:53:40 PM

Was this car ever involved in an accident?.

No. Definitely not.

Quote from: LatinVenom on August 10, 2015, 03:53:40 PM

Did you check once the brace was install there was clearance on both sides of the brace tube and are the lines on the driver side secure and not touching the brace, same with the fan controller.

the brace was clear to the fan an tbe engine. The lines on the driver side may have touched it lightly. But with no pressure at all...
The downwars facing brackets of the brace had some space (2-3mm on both sides) to the chassis though... Is this normal?

LatinVenom · « **Reply #30 on:** August 11, 2015, 05:11:09 PM »

Your last point about 2 to 3mm on each side is definitely not normal, the downward brackets should almost rub the chassis or have a clearance of no more than 1 mm.
My suggestion since you are in Germany is to have a plate made that can be slide on both sides to take the slack of the 2 to 3mm issue.
It should be the same length and width of the downward bracket, with a cutout to led the bolts pass through.
Tried that and see if the vibration goes away.
Also do you have the backbone and or ProBeam install as well?.

Napi · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2015, 05:23:58 PM »

Quote from: LatinVenom on August 11, 2015, 05:11:09 PM

Your last point about 2 to 3mm on each side is definitely not normal, the downward brackets should almost rub the chassis or have a clearance of no more than 1 mm.
My suggestion since you are in Germany is to have a plate made that can be slide on both sides to take the slack of the 2 to 3mm issue.
It should be the same length and width of the downward bracket, with a cutout to led the bolts pass through.
Tried that and see if the vibration goes away.
Also do you have the backbone and or ProBeam install as well?.

Thats vital information! Thank you. I will try to get some spacers for tbe brace...
I use a wiechers strut bar on the rear and the cardan brace from GTW.

LatinVenom · « **Reply #32 on:** August 12, 2015, 02:29:34 PM »

Napi I am not familiar with those products, lets see what happens once you take care of the downward bracket issue.
One last thing. Does the brace once you place it on the frame without been bolt down, are the upper brackets flat against the chassis?
I took a quick look at both of the mentioned brackets and have no issues with the Wiechers rear bracket, as long as is installed properly. Is obvious the bend on the tube is for clearance with the exhaust, please make sure you have good clearance between the exhaust and the bracket. You can probably see if there is an issue by looking at your exhaust tube and see if there is any signs of rubbing with the brace.
Now the Cardan brace is another matter. Is the OEM sheet metal cover use in conjunction with the 2 piece Carda brace?.
If yes, although you have no issues is a bad design. Why because you have 2 surfaces been attached with bolts and this will not accomplish the rigidity need it to secure the middle part of the structure of the chassis.
The idea is to have a thicker single plate as the ones with DDM, to secure the middle of the chassis and matted or screw it down directly to the original OEM hole threads, with either the same bolts or new ones in the case of the thicker brace.
Understand, I am not pointing the finger to your issue to this middle brace, all I am saying is your chassis is not really secure with this product.

Napi · « **Reply #33 on:** August 12, 2015, 02:36:33 PM »

Yes, the upper brackets are flat against the chassis and the holes match perfectly.

I will get back to you, as soon as I managed to "find" some spacers.

LatinVenom · « **Reply #34 on:** August 12, 2015, 02:59:22 PM »

Please see my comments I added to my post above your response.
Thanks

Napi · « **Reply #35 on:** August 12, 2015, 03:44:49 PM »

The Wiechers brace has a perfect clearance to the exhaust, no marks or anything... It is installed for sth around 10k miles now.

The stock cardan cover is removed of course.
The GTW brace consists of three pieces, one "baseplate" and two additional plates. The brace comes with new bolts but uses the original hole threads.
It is mounted for about 50k miles now (one of my first mods) and I just love it. It is an extremely popular mod in Germany, it was sw-tested and compared to the DDM and Dejon braces (one-piece designs) if I remember right, and outnumbered them all in weight and stiffness.

LatinVenom · « **Reply #36 on:** August 12, 2015, 04:13:53 PM »

Is the one piece base plate then at least 1 to 2 mm in thickness, otherwise base on CAD designs there is no way this product is any better than the DDM.
The reason is the other 2 brackets do not offer any thing more than the base in terms of regidity to the chassis, unless the base piece is very thin and the other 2 pieces are absorbing the flex, which negates the idea of the purpose of the brace in the 1st place.
You say you are very happy with it and that is what counts.
Lets hope the front brace once you add the other 2 pieces it eliminates the vibration.
If this does not happened then the combination of the other braces are introducing some harmonics to the chassis.

ophidia31 · « **Reply #37 on:** August 12, 2015, 06:42:24 PM »

In reference to the front brace, could he not just try using some washers to fill the space first instead of having to get some shims made?

As for the back bone style, interesting design. If it works, it works. But saying one was better than the other, I dunno. Multiple pieces is just multiple things to go wrong. I think a solid piece would work better since its the sum of one instead of two separate.

The rear brace, that looks beefy and better than the kappasphere rear bar that is the unconnected type other than the ddm. The weichers might be a little bit stiffer in the rear than the ddm as that is really only duplicating the zok piece with the extra metal that's welded on. What looks to be a 1.5-2" bar on that brace might be a little stiffer.

Sol Asylum · « **Reply #38 on:** August 12, 2015, 10:15:34 PM »

Do you get the vibration when you are sitting stoped and rev the engine over 3k? If so I would say get a lovely assistant rev the engine while you look for something out of the norm.

LatinVenom · « **Reply #39 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:06:35 PM »

Quote from: ophidia31 on August 12, 2015, 06:42:24 PM

In reference to the front brace, could he not just try using some washers to fill the space first instead of having to get some shims made?

As for the back bone style, interesting design. If it works, it works. But saying one was better than the other, I dunno. Multiple pieces is just multiple things to go wrong. I think a solid piece would work better since its the sum of one instead of two separate.

The rear brace, that looks beefy and better than the kappasphere rear bar that is the unconnected type other than the ddm. The weichers might be a little bit stiffer in the rear than the ddm as that is really only duplicating the zok piece with the extra metal that's welded on. What looks to be a 1.5-2" bar on that brace might be a little stiffer.

He could use some washers but my concern is not simulating the solid piece I suggested, he could also cut a couple of nails and try it but again is not duplicating what the down bracket piece is and it's purpose.

Napi · « **Reply #40 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:35:46 PM »

Quote from: Sol Asylum on August 12, 2015, 10:15:34 PM

Do you get the vibration when you are sitting stoped and rev the engine over 3k? If so I would say get a lovely assistant rev the engine while you look for something out of the norm.

The vibration does not occurr, when I rev the engine while the car os standing...

It is actually no problem to have some fitting spacers cutted, I'll pass the brace to a friend tomorrow, he'll cut some spacers from aluminium...
We'll see, if it has some impact on the vibrations... (I even thougt about trying to mount the brace with tge top two screws only... Jsut to try it...)

LatinVenom · « **Reply #41 on:** August 14, 2015, 04:51:36 PM »

You must secure the brace L brackets otherwise it will not work as design.

Napi · « **Reply #42 on:** August 14, 2015, 05:05:01 PM »

I know.
I just wondered if I could try it without the lower brackets, just to see if the vibration occurs...

LatinVenom · « **Reply #43 on:** August 15, 2015, 04:57:29 PM »

Yes, you can just do not do any heavy driving or sudden turns.
I would just go for a straight road drive for a few KM and feel if the vibration is not present.

Napi · « **Reply #44 on:** August 19, 2015, 06:18:46 AM »

I am going to reinstall the brace this Weekend, with some "improvised" spacers...

Two questions in Addition:

1.) Is it save to drive with the lower bolts removed? What is their purpose without the installed brace?

2.) A Friend suggested to check the engine Mounts, as his Mercedes had comparable symptoms when one of his Mounts teared apart. Maybe the brace just enhances the "Distribution" of an existing Vibration... Does anyone have an idea how to check ´the Mounts? I couldn`t see any visble damages or loss of hydraulic fluid...

LatinVenom · « **Reply #45 on:** August 19, 2015, 04:44:59 PM »

The bolts where the brace is hooked up, both the lower and the upper bolts were use by the manufacturing or assembly of the frame.
It is NOT safe to drive with either the bottom or top bolts removed.
In order to check the motor mounts you would have to put the car on a lift.
I also think you need to contact Dave at DDM an see if he has any other suggestions for you.

Napi · « **Reply #46 on:** August 20, 2015, 02:12:21 AM »

Quote from: LatinVenom on August 19, 2015, 04:44:59 PM

The bolts where the brace is hooked up, both the lower and the upper bolts were use by the manufacturing or assembly of the frame.
It is NOT safe to drive with either the bottom or top bolts removed.
In order to check the motor mounts you would have to put the car on a lift.
I also think you need to contact Dave at DDM an see if he has any other suggestions for you.

I contacted DDM two weeks ago, they seemed to be puzzled as I am. I will give the improvised spacers a try and then Report the results...
The lift is not a Problem, I just wondered how to actually check the Mounts. I do know they have to be dry, ofc. But do they Kind of "deflate" when they are damaged to it is just a visual check?

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #47 on:** August 20, 2015, 02:27:42 AM »

This is what my motor mount looked like when it was bad:

Napi · « **Reply #48 on:** August 20, 2015, 03:06:25 AM »

Thank you GJ!

I`ll try to get a good shot of my Mounts and compare them.

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #49 on:** August 20, 2015, 01:21:05 PM »

Just for the record, that mount is on an infiniti FX35. It's torn in half and the motor was moving about 6" when reved.

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Author Topic: DC front strut bar (Read 19321 times)