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Author Topic: LNF turbo build on an LE5  (Read 7911 times)

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Offline Jim

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2015, 06:21:14 PM »
No sir it is the entire year/model according to Bill at HP Tuners. I would verify it by downloading a stock tune for an LE5 but HydraLyfe has the loaner setup now. Come to think of it, I believe he is turbocharging an LE5....
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Offline elff

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2015, 06:22:53 PM »
Wow,
That makes buying the entire year a heck of a bargain.

I licensed mine for all 2008 Sky's

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2015, 06:25:48 PM »
There is a tune in the HP Tuners repository for a 2007 Sky (LE5) with the following mods: (forgive me for copying and pasting the long list)

2007 Saturn Sky- 2.4L LE5 engine
Engine – All factory internals and throttle body
TURBO- T3/T4 57 trim with .63 exhaust housing, 2.5” V-band outlet
Wastegate- Internal with 8psi spring
Manifold- Stainless Log
Intercooler- 3” thick core V-mounted in the nose with 2.5” diameter aluminum IC piping
MAF- Factory MAF used as blow through in a 2.5” diameter tube in the same location as stock. (welded on the GM aluminum MAF pad from Summit)
Downpipe- Catless 2.5” 304 stainless going into a full 3” magnaflow stainless exhaust
O2 sensors- Upstream narrow band O2 sensor only (no post cat sensor being used) plus NGK AFX wideband controller for tuning
Fuel- Premium (93 octane with 10% ethanol)
Injectors- ZZP Siemens 60 # for 2.4L LE5
MAP- ZZP GM 2-bar for LE5
Filter- The turbo has cone filter on the compressor housing, no intake
BOV- Located in a 2.5” SS tube and vented to atmosphere and is located pre-MAF (just after turbo outlet)
PCV system- The PCV hole in plastic intake manifold has been filled to eliminate oil in the Manifold from the cylinder head
VCBP- Valve cover breather port goes to catch can with a breather filter to atmosphere

That is fairly close it looks like. Yea, that's what I figured I'd have to do for IC plumbing too. 

Now, my IC would be stock, so not as efficient.  The turbo, I don't know how that matches up to the K04.

MAP...may have to go that route with ZZP. Not seeing much for LNF MAP sensors on LE5s.

Not going with a catless downpipe so there is that big difference.

BOV is internal in the K04 though I know you can convert it to be external...just don't need to and that would be more cost for me. Trying to keep that at a minimum.

I will have an intake and will not be closing of the PCV system if I can help it.

I hope HydraLyfe is doing an LE5 turbo...maybe he can chime in on some of this.

Offline Jim

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2015, 06:43:23 PM »
Wow,
That makes buying the entire year a heck of a bargain.

I licensed mine for all 2008 Sky's

It is a great deal and if you licensed it before HP Tuners restructured their credit program, you were able to do it for 6 credits whereas now it takes 12.

I'm trying to help others with the "loaner" program and the HP Tuners setup including the laptop is out on loan to the second forum member now and I hope it continues to stay on loan. I would eventually like to get licenses for all of the Kappa models and years but that will take some time. I have a few other tools in the classified section as well that are in the same program.
The road to success is always under construction.

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2015, 06:51:23 PM »
Well I'll definitely add the 2007 Sky to the list of credits you have. Definitely.

Looks like the LNF MAP is different from the LE5...just slightly...so I'll need to go with the GM 2 bar MAP that ZZP sells. Damn it.

So looks like I'll need to get the MAF bung and have it welded to some 2.5" IC piping. Wonder what that runs. 

Offline elff

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2015, 06:59:42 PM »
I did license it for 6 credits
 :thumbs:

Hee hee Robo said Bung
:lol:

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2015, 07:07:48 PM »
So doing my calculations...looks like I need about another $450 to finish off what I need for this build including the credits for the tune...Good lord...a $500 turbo build. LOL Nuts. I would have been happy to have it come in under $1,000 so even it if passes the $500 mark I'm pretty stoked.

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2015, 03:17:43 PM »
Well someone on the Sky forum brought up a good question that maybe someone here might have the answer to...how do you control the wastegate? On the LNF you have a sensor/relay/whatever the thing is called controlling it via the ECM but on the LE5 even if the ECM is capable of controlling the OEM boost controller I don't have the pigtail to connect it to the loom and ECM. I don't see any kind of boost controller listed in any of the kits which leads me to believe that if that item isn't hooked up to the ECM it defaults to the 7-9 psi the kit is meant to run. However, I don't like to assume.

Offline elff

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2015, 04:12:34 PM »
The K04 has it's own boost controller, and since there are kits, I would think there has to be a way in can be wired into the harness on the NA.
As GM shares a lot of parts, I wonder if the plug is already there, but just inside the loom that protects the wires



Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2015, 07:17:25 PM »
Talked to Dave at DDM this morning. If I haven't already said this, that guy is just a treasure to this community. Answered a ton of questions and now I have no worries about getting this build done.

First, the T-stat housing on the LNF has the threaded hole for the water line. The LE5s has to be drilled and tapped. I have an LNF t-stat housing and it fits the LE5 Dave said so that's going on the build.

For the wastegate, Dave said that you just leave it unplugged and get 5-6 lbs of boost. Option two is to install a boost controller, either manual or automatic, and manage boost that way. I think that's what I'll be doing.

For the oil return, you can't pull the oil pan off the LE5 or LNF while it is in the car. This was my thinking so that takes drilling the block or pan right off the list. He said for their kit they tap into the cover for the water pump and it's a very easy tie in to that. He also said I could get that same return line from him. Score. Thanks DDM!

He also told me where they pick up the water line since the LE5 doesn't have the same water line pickup point in the head as the LNF head does. Wondered about that and got that answer resolved so score there too.

As for injectors, 60# injectors are good to about 330 whp then they go flat according to Dave. Beyond that I'd need 80#. Issue with going with 80# injectors now though is trying to tune the idle is really rough.  So for now, I'll stick with 60#s and when/if I upgrade the turbo and do the head work to go beyond 300 whp then I'll worry about putting the 80s on.

I'll have to change out the front ducting behind the bumper...luckily I have a Sky. If I had a Solstice, the whole front bumper as to be changed as it is different shape to hold the IC but the Sky is same for NA and Turbo in that regard. The ducting behind it though is different. Looks like that is about $30 though so not bad.

Lastly, the tune. I can get a tune from him to start with and I can load that with the HPTuners here. Don't mind spending a little extra if need be to get a good canned starting tune to play around with. Worth the money I feel.

Dave said the stock clutch can handle 260-270 whp but only if I take it easy...no 5000K dump launches. LOL I can manage that. A clutch is next after I get this stage 1 turbo done. Then I can crank up the boost controller, tweak the tune, and be at my 300 number. I'm good with that. :D

Thanks again for all your help Dave and will be talking to you next month for that oil return line! :)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 07:34:11 PM by Robotech »

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2015, 02:07:14 AM »
Not really an update at this time but just something I started thinking about today and decided to put together.

Here is a list of parts (and prices) if you want to do this build yourself like I have. Now granted I have received a lot of my parts free of charge so keep in mind that unless you can do the same, getting the DDM kit is going to be MUCH cheaper. This really is for those with the 2.4 who are fortunate enough to be able to get a majority of the parts for free or nearly free. As you can see from this list of parts, it’s a lot more than just slapping on a turbo. All part numbers are GM part numbers unless otherwise specified. All GM part prices are MSRP and can be found for much less through online parts suppliers.

A couple other notes. I’m sure this list will change a bit as I do my build. I have not added parts here that you will reuse off your 2.4 such as manifold nuts or items that should be attached to pieces like the studs in the turbocharger. Also, I may have missed some things as this is a VERY big list but I’m almost certain I got everything. If I find something missing or I need to change something I will update this list. In addition, there are some items that are part of a previously listed section (such as intercooler) but that need to be custom fabricated so they are placed in their own section at the bottom of this list. Everything else are pretty much bolt on items. Finally, this does not include the cost of welding, cutting, forming of pipe ends or powder coating that I might do during the build.

Turbo Parts
12652494 – K04 Turbocharger $1,365.11
12609878 – Turbocharger to Catalytic Converter Gasket $17.37
12618586 – Turbocharger to Manifold Gasket $13.82
12589452 – Support Brace $20.82
12589408 – Heat Shield Turbo $32.58
12654315 – Oil Pipe Feed Line $100.56
11561946 – Bolt for Oil Line (2) $22.71 each
12611119 – Gasket for Oil Line (2) $7.40 each
12626611 – Water Feed Line $111.58
12618973 – Water Return Line $97.82
11561875 – Bolt for Water lines (3) $15.85 each
12626102 – Gasket for Water lines (3) $9.26 each
12602397 – Exhaust Manifold $482.74
12622668 – Manifold Gasket $11.30
12612286 – Heat Shield Manifold $35.55
12609268 – Catalytic Converter $877.57
15709703 – Nut for Cat to Turbo (4) $2.25 each
Oil Return Line - $89.99 (I have priced these out from ZZP but waiting on a quote from DDM.)

Total for Turbo Parts: $3,301.36


Water System Parts

12605853 – Thermostat Housing $128.51
90537471 – Thermostat Housing Gasket $23.28
12592401 – Outlet Pipe $49.58
90537379 – Outlet Pipe Seal (2) $15.17
Audi PN N90692901 – Audi A4 B8 2.0L Turbo Coolant T-fitting $12.00 at O'Riely*
1” to 3/4” barbed hose adaptor – $5.40 from Napa*
1’ section of 7/8” coolant line - $4.40 on eBay*
¾” to 3/8” barbed hose adaptor – apx $5.00 from Napa*
1’ section of ¾” coolant line - $3.52 on eBay*
¾-1” hose clamp (3) – apx $2.00*
½” hose clamp – apx $2.00*

*These parts are all to tie in the Water Feed line into the upper radiator hose. I found a couple 1’ to ½” adaptors but I don’t believe they are rated for engine coolant. Still looking for a better solution than this daisy chain of reducers.

Total for Water System Parts: $254.86


Intercooler Parts

25820725 – Intercooler $542.37
10386886 – Mount Bracket, Left $55.53
10386887 – Mount Bracket, Right $55.53
11609681 – Mount Bracket Bolt (2) $3.26 each
11589039 – Mount Bracket Bolt (4) $3.30 each
19129912 – Mount Bracket Insulator (2) $12.58 each
12595594 – Pipe Assembly $49.82
12615136 – 2 Bar MAP sensor $100.98
19129916 – Inlet Hose $123.86*
15286316 – Inlet Hose Clamp $9.88*
19129914 – Inlet Pipe (IC Hot pipe) $280.05*
20813754 – Upper Bracket $14.47*
15238800 – Lower Bracket $56.88*
15937524 – Air Baffle $30.15**
25791143 – Support Brace Right $23.33**
25791142 – Support Brace Left $23.33**

*These parts are optional if you decide to go with a different solution for your Intercooler piping on the hot side like I did by building the piping using eBay components. However, these stock pieces will work on this build.

**The 2.0L Turbo Sky uses a different Air Baffle and supports in the front bumper to direct air properly towards the Intercooler and radiator. Hardware from the parts on the 2.4 can be reused to attach these new pieces to the body.

Total for Intercooler Parts: $1,411.06


Fuel System Parts

60# Fuel injectors (4) – $159.00 (I have priced these out from ZZP but waiting on a quote from DDM.)

Total for Fuel System Parts: $159.00


Unique parts that must be fabricated or modified

Universal 2.5” intercooler 8 pc Piping Kit Aluminum - $90.00 on eBay. You need to make sure the kit you get includes piping with 90 degree, 45 degree, and 75 degree elbows. This kit has pipes that are all 18” long, couplers, and t-clamps. This kit is used to build the cold pipe coming off the intercooler. I will be using it for that and the hot side so both sides match. May need more sections of pipe or to cut and weld some of this pipe for final fitment. I will also be using some of this for the new intake. Note the cost on this may increase as the build progresses.

2.5” OD Slot Style MAF sensor aluminum bung - $23.95 on eBay. This will be welded into the cold pipe coming off the intercooler.

JDM Universal manual boost controller - $12.45 on eBay. Used for controlling the boost pressure of the K04 turbo. Still need to check other boost controller options at this point. Not sold on this one yet.

Aluminum ¼’ hose nipple - $14.95 off eBay. This is to connect the vent line from the head of the 2.4 to the new intake tube. This will be welded on the intake tube.

Tune – Free to $600. Really depends on what you have and what you want to do. I have talked to DDM about this and they said they can sell me the tune for this but still need to work out details. If you already own HPTuners, this is basically free but if not then it will all depend on the options you choose.

Total for Unique Parts: $141.35 - $741.35



Total Build Cost (MSRP): $5,267.63 - $5,867.63



I know that some of this stuff you can get for much cheaper than the listed prices. This isn’t about the LEAST expensive build, just about ALL the parts you need to do this build. Many folks think “Hey, I have the turbo…now just get an intercooler and I’m done.” This list should show that there is a lot more to a turbo kit than a turbo and intercooler.

The last few bits I need are:
Piping for the IC...have the stock LNF parts but have to do something custom for the Cold side and figured might as well do the hot side too. Will be getting the intake parts, MAF bung and getting that welded together and powder coated.

Injectors and Oil Return line from DDM.

Misc. nuts and bolts from the dealer plus the air baffle.  All total, under $100 in dealer parts.

Pieces to build the water feed line T fitting into the front radiator line.

Boost controller...still need to do some research on this.

MAP sensor.

And of course the tune.

I'll be getting the piping this weekend and start working on fabricating those parts...see what fits and what doesn't.  Will also probably knock out all the dealer parts. Next month hope to knock out the rest of the big stuff except the tune.  Tune will come in November once I have checked out the rest of the kit and make sure I have everything I need for the build.  Then nock it out, put the tune in, and perhaps dyno tune it in December.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 02:21:12 AM by Robotech »

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2015, 06:23:42 PM »
More progress. 

All the extra goodies I needed from OEM have already been purchased so now it is just some of the specialty aftermarket stuff that needs to get ordered or fabricated.

The water pump on my car had been leaking, slowly, since 51,000 miles. I have 72,000 on it currently. I have an extended warranty on it and can get the water pump replaced under warranty at the dealership for $100.

I'm planning on starting the build sometime after the 10th of October (but probably later in the month) so I decided now would be a good time to do the water pump.  While the dealer was changing it, I asked if...when they put everything back together...they could replace the LE5 water tube and thermostat housing with the LNF parts that I had off my doner LNF motor. They did at no additional charge (I made a plug for the turbo water line fitting.) So that part of the turbo build is done and now the exhaust manifold bolts have been loosened once and should come off easier in a couple weeks when I finish the build.

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2015, 06:07:08 PM »
Another updated.

I got the intercooler installed and all the proper body ducting in place.



I was surprised to see that not only were the holes for the front IC mount screws already in the bumper, so were the bolts.  The rear holes for the mounts had to be drilled in the bumper but other than that, every hole I needed a bolt through was there and threaded. The mounts to support the lower ducting I had but didn't know where they went or what they attached to until I posted some pictures on the Sky forum.

So I put this on and then took it over to a fab shop to have the cold pipe done up.



The pipe is the stuff I bought off eBay.  Only two pieces used so plenty left over for the hot side. That will get done after the turbo is on the car.

Speaking of which...that is scheduled for November 7th. Lot of stuff going on for October so that's when I'll be finishing this off. Really have fairly little to do. Remove 2.4 manifold and cat, drain oil, drain coolant, install injectors, install 2 bar MAP, put on turbo, manifold, cat, water and oil lines, refill and tune. I hope to have the physical build completed on the 7th and tune on the 8th.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 04:27:42 PM by Robotech »

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2015, 04:23:37 PM »
So the build day has come and gone and I thought I’d share with you folks the build, how it went, and what pitfalls we had.  There are always some because you always have Mr. Murphy (of Murphy’s Law fame) sticking his big fat hands in where they don’t belong when you’re doing a build. Hopefully you can throw a donut in the corner and distract him enough to get your work done but invariably it is only a temporary reprieve.

The schedule for the build was to get everyone there at 10 o’clock to start the wrenching. For yours truly though, that meant standing in front of O’Reilly’s auto parts at 7:29 am to get some spark plugs. You always remember something you need at the last minute. From there it was on to AutoZone to pick up other last minute items like oil, filter, coolant, clamps, drain pan for coolant, vac line, shop towels, and orange hand cleaner. These were planed last minute purchases though; I remembered I would need them. From there it was a quick trip to pick up a couple dozen donuts, one dozen for the family and another for the folks showing up for the build.  On the way home I grabbed beer, soda, chips and salsa because this is what keeps people happy while wrenching on someone else’s car.

After I got home it was only then I realized I needed Ice too. So back to the store for ice.

Returned from that little brain fart moment, got everything set up, and looked at the clock to see it was 9:52.  Looks like I got ready just in time.



While only two folks showed up, Gabes Redline from the Skyroadster forum and Cody from the local Kappa club, it turned out to be just about the right amount of people to get the job done without getting into each other’s way too often. Quickly we dropped the exhaust, drained the oil and coolant, and started tearing into the top part of the car. We originally hoped the cat could be lifted out with the exhaust manifold but that wasn’t happening so we took the cat out the bottom and Gabe (real name John) started wrenching on the manifold bolts. Since he was on that side of the car, I decided to tackle the injectors.

Pretty simple to get to, remove two bolts and pull the rail off, the injectors will come with them. Note though that the injectors have “adaptors” or something on them and these MAY stay in the head or they MAY come out with the injectors. We had three come out and one stay put.  To get the injectors off the rail you need to remove a retaining clip.  These come off pretty easily though and then the injectors just pull out of the rail. The plugs have a white locking clip you slide back (it doesn’t come off the plug) and then you can depress the locking tab and remove the plug from the injector.  A little bit of light petroleum jelly on the new injector o-rings, put on the adaptors, reset into the head, and the rail presses right back on. No need for retaining clips on the new injectors. Then replace bolts and tighten.
 
Here we are with the fuel rail off and the old injectors out. Two of the injectors have the adaptors on them still while the third one doesn’t so you can see the difference. Also you can see a couple retaining clips sitting by the injectors too.



Now at this point you could swap out the MAP sensor too. The 2-bar sensor I have should be enough for this build and for the max this turbo can put out on a 2.4 (which is about 12 psi of boost) the stock 2.7 bar off the 2.0 could also be used. I didn’t swap out the MAP sensor here and put the fuel system back together. After I realized where the MAP was located (between the top of the throttle body and the fuel injectors…under all that wiring you see above) I thought I’d have to remove the rail to get to it.  Luckily you don’t. Unplug it from the harness and it just lifts right out.  There are guides that hold it in place and the new MAP just gets aligned on those guides and pressed down firmly…then clip the plug back in place.

If you look in the picture below, you can see how little room there is between the MAP and fuel rail but trust me, that little MAP sensor is there and can be removed with all this in place.



While working on the injectors and MAP swap, Gabe was finishing off getting the NA exhaust manifold off.  Cody was running back and forth between Gabe and I helping out where he could.  That is, when he wasn’t diving under the car for something one of us dropped or to finish up draining the oil and coolant.




Mr. Murphy decided to play a bit of a trick on Gabe making him believe he needed a swivel extension to get to a couple of the bolts on the manifold so it took him a bit longer than it probably could have. Murphy, being the sly cat he is, managed to do this without my knowledge.  Lord knows I had plenty of donuts to distract the guy had I known.

While Gabe was finishing up amusing Murphy, I got to splicing into the brake booster vacuum line for my bypass valve.  The line comes off the intake manifold just below the throttle body, heads towards the firewall then makes a 90 degree turn UP before heading back to the brake booster.  I decided to tie into this line. It is probably a 7/16ths line but a 3/8” t-fitting to a ¼” fitting worked. I cranked down the clamps to tighten it up and the fitting seemed secure. We’ll see when we fire it up if it stays air tight but it looks like it should.



Gabe removed the exhaust manifold and I went over to take a look.  It is amazing how much room you think you have there.  This is where, had I not had it done by the dealership when they changed out my water pump, we’d be tackling the water pipe and thermostat housing.  However, this was done for us as you can see in the picture below.



As was mentioned before, I was lucky in that I had the dealer install the LNF thermostat housing.  The water return line for the turbo screws into this housing and there is a notch to properly align the hardline built into the housing. I installed this line at this time as, after the turbo is on, it is difficult to get to the housing.  I also installed the oil feed line for the turbo as it would be impossible to do so after the turbo is installed.  To install this line, you remove one of the three oil plugs in the side of the block. These plugs come out easily with a 6mm Allen wrench socket (I HIGHLY recommend the socket…cannot imaging trying to do this with a standard Allen wrench). So I removed the middle plug and installed the line.

Except you’re supposed to remove the oil plug closest to the thermostat housing.   Luckily I remembered how these lines were connected to the turbo and, upon seeing the gap between the turbo connection for the water line and the turbo connection for the oil line being a good 8 inches further apart (they should be almost right next to one another) I realized my mistake, replaced the middle plug, and installed the oil line properly.   In the picture above you can see where the middle plug is missing. It's the one to the left of that I should have removed.

Now it was time to move on to installing the turbo exhaust manifold and new exhaust manifold gasket. Gabe cautioned me about the lower bolts on the manifold needing a swivel so I kept that in mind as I worked the new manifold in place and hand tightened all the nuts. I then consulted my checklist as I had included the torque sequence for the exhaust manifold there. Following the diagram, I torqued down the nuts in sequence. When I got to the nuts in the rear of the engine bay, the ones I was cautioned were going to require a swivel, I realized the joke Murphy had dropped on Gabe.  A swivel wasn’t needed, but a slightly longer extension was and with it, you had a straight shot through the heater lines to the bolts. Gabe went to find Murphy and kick his butt for the extra work but Murphy had grabbed a glazed donut and ran off to plot his next scheme leaving Gabe free to take out his frustration on the spark plugs.

The Ecotec uses what is called “Coil on plug” technology for the spark plugs.  What these means is rather than having a coil pack somewhere and spark plug wires running to the plugs, the coils sit above and connect directly to the plugs. One bolt holds the coil to the head. Remove the bolt, undo the plug connecting the coil to the harness, and out comes the coil giving you access to remove the plug as you normally would.



I stepped back, grabbed a cider, and let Cody and Gabe knock out the plug install. With the two of them working on it, it was done in no time.



I mentioned before I had a checklist. That list was posted in the garage and as we went through the different steps, we checked things off the list. The list also included torque specs for all our fasteners and diagrams for the aforementioned manifold bolt torque sequence as well as how we would route the Manual Boost Controller (MBC). Unlike you GXP/Redline guys, us NA folks don’t have an electronic way to control our wastegates and thus our boost levels so we must rely on a standalone system for that. Now they do make electronic ones that operate just the way the stock LNF’s system works, just outside GM’s harness and ECM, but I decided for now to go with the simpler (and let’s face it, cheaper) manual style controller.

With multiple people working on the car, it was good to have everything listed and handy to make things go smoother. I found Murphy is nearly illiterate and can’t figure out how to screw with you as well if you have a list.



As you can see, we didn’t follow the list step by step. It was designed in sections so that each section of the build was in an appropriate place giving us flexibility to work on one part that was listed later but was not dependent on completing something in one of the previous steps.

With the number of parts we had coming on and off the car, it was important to have some written down plan that anyone could reference when they needed to.  This, I feel, was one of the major reasons why this build went as smoothly as it did…that and donuts for Murphy.



With all that done, we were well on our way to moving on with the build.

In the picture below you can see the exhaust manifold in place and the turbo oil and water lines where they should be.  The banjo fittings that mount onto the turbo and the heat shield material over the lines can be seen at the bottom center of the photo.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 05:14:43 PM by Robotech »

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2015, 04:24:38 PM »
After this we installed the turbo itself. This was a team effort. Cody jumped on getting the oil return line hooked up to the modified front water pump cover while Gabe jumped under the car to tighten all the bolts to the turbo as they were easier to reach from below.  All the while I worked on getting the oil and water lines connected up on the top side of the turbo and installing the water feed line from the upper radiator hose to the hard line and installing the hard line on the turbo.  Of these tasks, the oil return line proved to be the toughest. It was a tight fit and required several tries before we found the right combination that fit. For us, it was to mount the AN fitting to the front cover nipple then bolt the cover to the engine with the nipple towards the passenger side.  We also put a little RTV on the gasket to make sure we had a good seal against the engine.

As I mentioned Mr. Murphy was off with his donut earlier plotting his next big prank. Since everything up until this point had gone exceptionally smoothly, I thought perhaps my planning and checklist coupled with a couple of guys who really knew how to wrench would save us his shenanigans. I wasn’t to be so lucky and it was after we had the turbo installed and went to attach the catalytic converter that Murphy showed up and brought all the bells and whistles.

If you haven’t seen the cat for the LNF, picture a question mark turned backwards and looking like it ate an entire turkey dinner by itself. With the limited room we had once the turbo was in, we couldn’t figure out how the heck to get it in.  I got under the car at first with Gabe and Cody up top.  I wiggled and turned and swore and pounded and twisted and after I was finally under the car I even managed to try and get that cat in but to no avail.  Once my arm felt like it was about to fall off (that thing is heavy when you’re trying to hold it above you head with one arm), Gabe got under the car and gave it a try. Again we tried every which way we could think of to get it in and, with Murphy laughing at us so hard he almost choked on a bearclaw in the background, still we couldn’t get it in.  Then it was Cody’s turn to get under the car and bang his knuckles against the frame while Gabe and I tried to figure out how to get it into position from above.

With Murphy stuffed on donuts and the rest of us feeling like we needed a different cat, we all took a moment to have some pizza to regroup.  Two ciders later I was refreshed and decided we’d bypass the cat for now and come back to it. 

Next up was attaching the oil catch can and the charge pipes. The custom cold pipe went on with some finagling since it is 2.5” and the stock pipe connectors on the IC are 2.25” yet the mouth of the throttle body is 2.75”.  Since we were using the stock hot pipe for now, that went on without much fuss.

Where I was going to mount the oil catch can though was another story.  I looked around for a suitable location and finally decided to go with one right in the middle of the front bumper. Why? Well it was there and I had the screw for the hole. This was the mounting hole that the GMPP CAI had used when it was installed. So I took the ground tab that was used on the NA exhaust manifold (the heat shield for the new manifold had a different one built in to replace it), cut it to size, and drilled the holes in it to mount it to the bumper crash bar and to mount the can to this new bracket.  Then I ran a ½” line from the valve breather to the inlet of the can before running a 3/8” line from the outlet of the can to the turbo.



That mounted, we ran the ¼” vacuum line from the Tee I installed earlier to the bypass valve and then I went to work installing the boost controller while Gabe cut into the upper radiator line to install the tee there for the water feed line on the turbo. While trying to get the lines off of the boost control solenoid, I broke one of the nipples off the solenoid. For a LNF car, this would be a costly mistake but on this build, that solenoid isn’t used so I took it off, capped the ambient pressure port on the turbo to prevent unfiltered air and dirt getting in the turbo, and then ran my lines per the diagram on my checklist.  I then mounted the MBC to the power steering bracket for a clean install.

At this point we decided to test fit the intake.  Using 2.5” tubing left over from the cold pipe (and which will be used to make a hot pipe) I place a section with a 90 degree bend in the pipe to get a general idea of where things would sit and if I would be better off with a 75 degree or 45 degree bend instead. The 90 was the ticket though and that would be what I would buy in 3” from PepBoys later.

In the picture below you can see the mock up pipe in place and the MBC sticking up over by the power steering fluid reservoir.




We called it a day here, very disappointed the cat wasn’t on but skersfan (also from the skyroadster forum) would be out the next day to work on that with me. Overall we had gotten a lot checked off the list.




The following day I got up and headed to PepBoys to get my intake parts. At first I thought I was going to be in trouble with getting the parts I needed but it turned out they had exactly what I needed, on 90 degree bend and an 18” straight pipe. Armed with these, a new coupler, and a new air filter, I headed back home to meet up with skersfan.  He had changed out his cat with a high flow unit…well, had someone do it for him while he watched…and I thought he might have some insight into it.

He mentioned I should try lifting the motor so I took off the bolt on the passenger side mount and, using a 2x4 for bracing, jacked up the motor about 1-2”. Once again though we couldn’t get the cat in the car. I was concerned that the second O2 bung I had added was causing the issue but we could clearly see this wasn’t the problem.  Then skersfan mentioned Solo performance had a video of how to do it.  After watching the video it was clear what you have to do.  With the cat facing with the opening that connects to the turbo facing the REAR of the car, you slowly raise the cat into the car WHILE turning it towards the inside of the car until, after turning it 180 degrees WHILE pushing it up, it slides right into place!  Seriously, it took 10 seconds. I had spent over an hour on it the day before and had been frustrated as hell and now 10 seconds and it was in. Well, now we had to take it out because I had to install the support brace that goes between the engine and the turbo from underneath. With the secret of the cat now known it was out in seconds, the brace put in, and the cat went back in the car. Installed the support mount from below, the four bolts from above to hold it to the turbo, and the cat which had so frazzled me the day before was now in!

So now the stock O2 sensor was going to give me fits. At first, I thought it was going to be real hard to get in the second bung since that bung was lower and offset towards the inside of the car than the stock upper hole but instead it went it very easily.  Once in though, it was obvious that the pigtail on the O2 wasn’t going to reach the plug on the harness that it had been plugged into. I called around to see if anyone had an extension for it and, of course being in CA who in the heck would need one since you aren’t supposed to touch them, I couldn’t find one. 

Instead I went down to PepBoys and looked at the Bosch O2 sensor that is a direct replacement for my stock unit. Amazingly, the Bosch unit had a pigtail more than twice the length of my factory unit. So, $80 and a fresh O2 later (hey, it is 8 years old, might as well replace it), we were back in business.  The new O2 was so perfect, I was even able to secure it in the factory location once it was installed.  Then the wide band O2 went in the stock hole just like it should and skersfan went on home, cat installation mission complete.

I finished out the night by installing the new intake. It took some cutting (and my Dremel dying) to get it to fit right.  I even had to swing the oil catch can sideways some to get everything to clear.  Now I refiled the coolant and bleed it like DDM mentions with the engine off. It took about a gallon of coolant before the water started bubbling up from the engine. I’m sure it will take more after I fire her up.  I would have put in the oil too but couldn’t find my funnel! Curse you Murphy! Must have been because I ran out of donuts.

In the picture below you get an idea of about where I left off.  All the clamps are now on and all I need to do is tighten the t-clamps on the hot pipe (after I take the pipe off and spray the inside of the couplers with hairspray to help them stick better, I’m told), fill it with oil, reattach the battery, flash the new tune on the car, and fire it up. 






And pray Murphy doesn’t show up with a whole bunch of oil and water leaks.


For TLDR people:  Installed a turbo on a 2.4. Mr Murphy ate donuts and caused a little havoc. The end.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 02:59:34 PM by Robotech »

Offline elff

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2015, 07:23:01 PM »
Very nice

Can't wait to see how the start goes. 
Make sure you record that, fail or go. 
We all want to see.

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2015, 08:10:28 PM »
Will do Elff. I see one of three things happening.

1. It fires right up and all goes well.  This is what I hope happens.
2. It fires right up and I find oil and/or water leaks. Could be a nightmare to track them down and fix.
3. It doesn't light at all. There really is no reason why this should happen and trying to trouble shoot it could be a nightmare. This is my greatest fear.

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2015, 08:25:45 PM »
Nice write up!!!

Offline Critterman

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2015, 11:03:51 PM »
Very nice right up, waiting in line for the startup video.
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

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StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
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Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
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Lambo Doors

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Center console, door inserts, & dash
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Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2015, 01:29:45 AM »
The wait is over...



She lives.



And she whistles. :D

Started it up, let her idle and after it got up to temp (you can hear the fan in the second video) gave her a couple revs.  The tune is very rough and it needs some tweaks.  She is still up on the jack stands and I'll be checking it in the morning to see if we are seeing any leaks in either oil or water. If I don't, we'll be wiring up the wide band and then taking her for a little drive later this week to get some gas in her and see how she does on the road.

My tuner is coming out this weekend and we're going to clean up the rough tune on her now.

Success feels so good though...now I need a beer, a shower, and my baby.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 01:33:06 AM by Robotech »

Offline elff

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2015, 10:05:56 AM »
Congrats

Offline Critterman

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2015, 11:42:33 AM »
Sounds good, congrats
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension
Lambo Doors

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2015, 12:14:36 PM »
Thanks guys. Appreciate it. Now the next major hurdle will be the clutch. LOL

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2015, 02:16:25 PM »
2007 Aggressive GXP

Offline Robotech

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Re: LNF turbo build on an LE5
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2015, 04:04:10 PM »
No...donuts can do all...

 

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