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Author Topic: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder  (Read 16828 times)

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Offline ryansalazan

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T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« on: August 13, 2015, 11:36:17 AM »
I guess this more goes to Elf because I knew he had put one in, but how is it? Are the gears much longer? And hows it like to Daily?

Offline wspohn

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2015, 10:35:49 AM »
Well obviously the gears are 'longer' - the 6th gear ratio is typically between .50 and .62, while the stock Aisin AR5 uses a .73.

The intermediate gears are also a tad longer (lower numerical) ratios.

The 20 pound weight penalty isn't much; the $3,000+ to put one in there would bother me more.
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
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Online Sol Asylum

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 11:02:27 AM »
For some reason I am thinking Elff ended up not getting this mod, but I am not sure about that.
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Offline ophidia31

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 03:45:57 PM »
Well obviously the gears are 'longer' - the 6th gear ratio is typically between .50 and .62, while the stock Aisin AR5 uses a .73.

The intermediate gears are also a tad longer (lower numerical) ratios.

The 20 pound weight penalty isn't much; the $3,000+ to put one in there would bother me more.

Yeah, depends on how much you pay for your transmission, so its never going to cost what they list. I would be more inclined to spend money on a new 5spd gear set designed more for the kappa needs than a truck.
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Offline ryansalazan

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 04:09:23 PM »
but since the gto t56 is more geared for speed and acceleration, would it not be ready to put in? I really am curious about this kit and think eventually I'm going to be getting it but I'm not hearing much info on it. and yes i know obvioulsy the gears will be longer, but my question is more like how much at what rpm?

Offline ihawk95

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 04:11:31 PM »
For fun, I went back through Elff's mod list on Lucifer and I didn't see the T56 on it.  I think SA is right and he didn't end up using it.

Offline wspohn

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2015, 04:13:51 PM »
yes i know obvioulsy the gears will be longer, but my question is more like how much at what rpm?

Go to it.

http://www.crawlpedia.com/rpm_gear_calculator.htm
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
Recently sold:
1969 MGC roadster,
1965 Jensen CV8,
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
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Offline Jim

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2015, 04:43:20 PM »
I've used this spreadsheet for a few years. (attached below) You can change the numbers in the blue sections to get an idea of what different tire sizes and gear ratios will do. At 6000rpm in 6th gear (.62 ratio), you'll be tooling along at 205.84mph.  :D
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Offline ophidia31

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2015, 06:23:39 PM »
but since the gto t56 is more geared for speed and acceleration, would it not be ready to put in? I really am curious about this kit and think eventually I'm going to be getting it but I'm not hearing much info on it.

Ready to put in as in just bolt in? Yes when you buy their kit with the modified bellhousing/clutch/backbone/driveshaft/etc....

And not hearing much about it because its a big pill to swallow for a 6th gear. With a transmission if you find a used one cheap, still looking $4k+ for the swap. Can do a lot of other mods with that much money.

That said, if you want to know all about it, its best to go straight to the source and contact ddm themselves.
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Offline wspohn

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2015, 06:27:28 PM »
Ready to put in as in just bolt in? Yes when you buy their kit with the modified bellhousing/clutch/backbone/driveshaft/etc....

And not hearing much about it because its a big pill to swallow for a 6th gear. With a transmission if you find a used one cheap, still looking $4k+ for the swap. Can do a lot of other mods with that much money.

And be honest - how many times have you really thought that you needed another OD gear - were you clipping along at twice the speed limit in 5th?  Even if you were, the stock engine will happily pull 4500 - 5000 rpm all day without complaint.
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
Recently sold:
1969 MGC roadster,
1965 Jensen CV8,
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
Bill in BC

Offline ophidia31

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2015, 06:57:39 PM »
And be honest - how many times have you really thought that you needed another OD gear - were you clipping along at twice the speed limit in 5th?  Even if you were, the stock engine will happily pull 4500 - 5000 rpm all day without complaint.

Same thing a lot of guys with an Abarth want because we only have a 5spd stock. One company makes a taller 5th that drop rpms ~500 or so which is nice since it does turn 3k rpm at 70mph stock and is good up to 130+mph. But another gear isn't necessary since you wont use it. Whats so magical about a 6spd is beyond me.  :idk:
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Offline Critterman

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2015, 09:51:20 PM »
Elff did not get the T56
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Offline elff

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2015, 11:00:59 AM »
I ended up not doing this mod.  It was due to the general unavailability of the transmission.

Whats so magical about a 6spd is beyond me.  :idk:
The T56 draw was the difference in the first 3 gear ratios.  6th gear didn't matter to me.  I've never really liked the stock 5 speed in the Kappa and the stock clutch is MEH! 

But it did not work out, so it is a moot point. 

I will say, I love the 6 speed transmission in the Genesis Coupe.  Gears 1-4 are a great length that allow the engine to put the power to the pavement without having to shift too much. 

Offline wspohn

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2015, 11:10:10 AM »
I will say, I love the 6 speed transmission in the Genesis Coupe.  Gears 1-4 are a great length that allow the engine to put the power to the pavement without having to shift too much. 

Fortunately you can get that in a 5 speed without having a superfluous 6th gear you never use.  You just have to hunt around a bit.

I used a V8 T5 in a British car in front of a GM V6 and the higher 1st through 3rd are very good (some T5s out of S10s etc. have bull low more suited to a dump truck) nd a 0.62 5th that works as a relaxed crusing gear.  As you said - the first 4 are where you do the fun driving, and the top gear is just for cruising.
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
Recently sold:
1969 MGC roadster,
1965 Jensen CV8,
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
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Offline elff

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2015, 11:22:59 AM »
We use 6th gear whenever cruising.   Speed limits are high enough to support it and it aids in Gas Mileage on longer trips. 
So it is far from superfluous. 
It causes no downside when its not used, so there is no harm having one for the times when it can have value.

Yes you can hunt around for a 5speed but who wants to swap transmissions when you dont need to because the vehicle already came with a fine transmission.

The kappa transmission was chosen to save GM money vs using or developing one that could have been a better option. 
The best comment I will give it, is that it is adequate, but just barely.  Alot if them have issues with 3rd gear on kappas with stock power or the lNF upgraded tune from GM.


Offline roxer

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2015, 12:19:00 PM »
I thought Dr. Dave was working on a mod to the kappa tranny to address reliabity issues? Anyone know what that might be? But third is the fun gear for me. The others are blah.
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Offline elff

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2015, 12:38:30 PM »
I do, but I am not sure if I am at liberty to disclose the information.
i'll let the Dr. respond.

Offline wspohn

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2015, 09:50:11 AM »
Yeah, depends on how much you pay for your transmission, so its never going to cost what they list.

Uh, no, you are misreading that. The conversion kit is $3K. If you don't supply your own T56, that will cost you ANOTHER $3K.

That's the point - a heck of a lot of money for a 6th speed you'll probably never use.
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
Recently sold:
1969 MGC roadster,
1965 Jensen CV8,
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
Bill in BC

Offline elff

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2015, 09:59:16 AM »
Actually you guys are both misreading that because you are missing the area that states

Availability: Not for Sale

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

The cost is actually $0 because there is nothing for you to buy

Due to the problems that arose in acquiring a working T56 for my build, Dave has had to unfortunately scrap this.

Offline elff

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2015, 10:03:03 AM »
As such, my Sky has the following

http://www.ddmworks.com/20L-LNF-Performance-Clutch-kit-by-DDMWorks_p_478.html

http://www.ddmworks.com/Short-Shifter-by-DDMWorks_p_484.html

First gear can sometime be a little tricky with aftermarket clutches, but after you get used to the fact that the catch point is near the top of the travel vs near the floor, it's a big improvement over a Spec Clutch. 
The short shifter, as I have posted in other threads is to die for.     You can shift with just your wrist.

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2015, 10:27:20 AM »
We shall call it
"The Elff"
Instead if the short shifter.
Make the right choices now

Offline ophidia31

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2015, 10:34:04 AM »
Uh, no, you are misreading that. The conversion kit is $3K. If you don't supply your own T56, that will cost you ANOTHER $3K.

That's the point - a heck of a lot of money for a 6th speed you'll probably never use.

Nope, read it just fine. "Going to cost more than what they list" means its going to be more than $3k as thats just a parts to make it work number and then depepnds on how much the transmission is that you find on top of that.  Otherwise they have the option for a new one that bumps it up to $7k.
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Offline ophidia31

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2015, 10:37:06 AM »
Actually you guys are both misreading that because you are missing the area that states

Availability: Not for Sale

(Attachment Link)



The cost is actually $0 because there is nothing for you to buy

Due to the problems that arose in acquiring a working T56 for my build, Dave has had to unfortunately scrap this.

It should be taken off the site then. Cant stand when vendors put something up that looks sweet then is like "yeah, no, you cant have this."
2013 Grigio Abarth 500

Offline elff

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2015, 11:05:38 AM »
They did update it, probably in the hopes of being able to update it with something else and new.

Offline ryansalazan

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Re: T56 conversion on the lnf 4 cylinder
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2015, 12:02:28 PM »
Uh, no, you are misreading that. The conversion kit is $3K. If you don't supply your own T56, that will cost you ANOTHER $3K.

That's the point - a heck of a lot of money for a 6th speed you'll probably never use.

I'm not sure why everyone has to assume if you get a 6 speed transmission that you must be trying to top it out everywhere. The whole reason for this transmission is because like what elf said, it has much better 1-3rd gearing. The factory gearing on the kappas is great when you dont make much power, but as you start to make high power, it wraps through the gears a little too quickly making you have to shift more frequently on the stock aisin ar5. That being said, the more you shift, the less time you have your foot to the ground making the power. The 6 speed transmission is what solves that problem by having longer gears, alongside of being an overall stronger transmission. The actual 6th gear is just a bonus for an extra overdrive when cruising around 80 mph.

I'm not sure why some people thing that I'd be interested in the 6 speed transmission just because I want to top it out. The Aisin ar5 is plenty capable to be able to get you to high speeds! I've done 167mph in 5th gear and was only at 5700 ish rpm, so plenty more room at a 7000rpm redline. So no, not wanting the 6 speed for better top speed, I'm wanting it for the sake of the longer gears down low. Our engine make a lot of torque, I just want to use more of it on acceleration.

 

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