Author Topic: Campaign to Initiate NHTSA Investigation into Kappa Passenger Presence Sensor (Read 64575 times)

Robotech · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2016, 04:43:36 AM »

That's a good question Chris. Wonder if someone can check that out. I figure, however, that the seats are different. Both the CTS and Kappa PPS mats are assembled onto their cushions before entering the GM parts supply. With the different part numbers I wonder what the differences are but it would sure be worth a shot. Would be a heck of a lot easier to source from wrecked vehicles.

Also thanks for attaching that to your complaint. I may be making some changes to it to include the new pictures that have been displayed here but the data is pretty much going to be the same.

And I need to light a fire under the co-worker who is supposed to be reviewing this.

Sly Bob · « **Reply #26 on:** March 24, 2016, 07:30:27 AM »

Yeah that Is great information Chris and the community would benefit greatly if a CTS cushion / sensor was an option.

jlettiere · « **Reply #27 on:** March 30, 2016, 01:04:32 PM »

As seen today on GM Authority Daily Digest
http://gmauthority.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbb4437084c33acc25fbd24ca&id=90663500a7&e=0524b9c285

Robotech · « **Reply #28 on:** March 30, 2016, 04:32:27 PM »

Thanks for posting that link jlettiere! Really hope this starts gaining traction. Sharing this story where ever you can will help!

ChrisPrice · « **Reply #29 on:** March 30, 2016, 04:38:41 PM »

Timinig is key, once one blogger covers something... others will only do so if they are asked to within 24/48 hours of another blogger doing so.

Otherwise it becomes "old news" and would impact their credibility for covering "too late" - as a recovering blogger, I can say that while this sounds counterintuitive... it makes sense. In their own interest, it's better to skip coverage and claim it wasn't notable.

It's like saying you didn't get an invite to a party, than come late to the last 30 minutes of a party.

TL;DR - You need to email your favorite automotive blog(s) today (as in yes, today - not tomorrow or next week when you have time), if you want this to get momentum.

ChopTop · « **Reply #30 on:** March 30, 2016, 07:14:29 PM »

Quote from: jlettiere on March 30, 2016, 01:04:32 PM

As seen today on GM Authority Daily Digest
http://gmauthority.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbb4437084c33acc25fbd24ca&id=90663500a7&e=0524b9c285

I crossposted this on GMInsideNews.com, if anyone has a Jalopnik account I'd suggest this article be forward to them.

Robotech · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2016, 01:14:59 AM »

Thank you ChopTop! That is fantastic!

Robotech · « **Reply #32 on:** April 19, 2016, 07:24:35 PM »

While I can't go into details at this time, I have been informed that the NHTSA has gotten wind of this report and would be open to starting an investigation into the problem. I first must draft a Defect Petition in accordance with 49 CFR 552.4 in order to get the ball rolling. I am currently researching what is needed in that Defect Petition letter and starting my first draft. I have a contact at NHTSA who is willing to help with this process so I look forward to having more news for you folks in the coming days.

This wouldn't have happened without the help of another forum member who I cannot publicly mention. So _________, I thank you.

kwtoxman · « **Reply #33 on:** April 19, 2016, 11:06:08 PM »

Congratulations. It's great to see all your hard work was noted. I've been following this for a while.

With some traction on this issue, I'd humbly suggest if it isn't too much work, put together an additional petition at the same time for the hvac fire risk, as it is very similar to the airbag issue. Both are significant safety hazards and recalls have been initiated on other vehicles that use the same parts.

One can google the solstice websites for more info and google in general. Here is the related source recall, just one of many search results under hummer.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/07/general-motors-recalls-154993-units-of-2006-2010-hummer-h3-2009-2010-hummer-h3t-over-hvac-issue/

It's really sad that multiple parts used on the solstice have been recalled in other vehicles, but not on the solstice. Scandalous.

sirwm · « **Reply #34 on:** April 20, 2016, 02:51:27 PM »

good work!

DaveOC · « **Reply #35 on:** April 20, 2016, 04:30:49 PM »

Quote from: Robotech on April 19, 2016, 07:24:35 PM

While I can't go into details at this time, I have been informed that the NHTSA has gotten wind of this report and would be open to starting an investigation into the problem. I first must draft a Defect Petition in accordance with 49 CFR 552.4 in order to get the ball rolling. I am currently researching what is needed in that Defect Petition letter and starting my first draft. I have a contact at NHTSA who is willing to help with this process so I look forward to having more news for you folks in the coming days.

This wouldn't have happened without the help of another forum member who I cannot publicly mention. So _________, I thank you.

Well, let's get that document cranked out (figuratively speaking . . . err . . . typing?)

Sly Bob · « **Reply #36 on:** April 20, 2016, 05:22:32 PM »

Yes nicely done and thanks so much for all the work you have done thus far. It's not over yet but it's certainly headed in the right direction.

Robotech · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2016, 06:43:14 PM »

Thank you guys but I want to remind everyone I didn't do this solo. A lot of folks, DaveOC and TS from here specifically as well as many others, contributed to this effort and without their work it couldn't have been done. I just "wrote a letter". LOL

The Defect Petition letter is done. I drafted one up, submitted it to the contact I was put in touch with at the NHTSA for review, and already have it approved. This is what is going out along with a CD with all the listed attachments.

http://b17queenofthesky.com/Sky/resrch/output/final_work/Defect_Petition_redact.pdf
(a note, I made this PDF before I re-read it a few dozen times and found a couple typos and structural issues that have since been corrected. I could make another copy of this with the changes but just no time at the moment)

Should have these in the mail tomorrow with a copy electronically copied to the NHTSA representative.

kwtoxman, one cause at a time. LOL Realize the research I did on this anyone could have done...while I'm working on this, I can point you in the right direction to research the wiring issue.

This whole process is a lot of work. My initial paper took over a month of research (about 4 hours a day and 16 hours on the weekends) plus another two weeks to write the paper. Part of this is because there is so much material out there for the problem. With the electrical connector issue, I don't know how much is out there to support a petition. I'm going to see this one through first before I start on any others.

Rockchops · « **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2016, 08:10:54 PM »

Robo (and associated acts) - your hard work is much appreciated! This is awesome.

Sent from an abacus

Critterman · « **Reply #39 on:** April 21, 2016, 10:22:07 AM »

Excellent work Robo

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #40 on:** April 21, 2016, 11:01:53 AM »

Nicely done all involved.

Robotech · « **Reply #41 on:** May 19, 2016, 11:11:01 PM »

Update!!!

NHTSA INVESTIGATION Subject : Passenger Sensing System Sensor Mat

Date Investigation Opened: MAY 16, 2016
Date Investigation Closed: Open
NHTSA Action Number: DP16001
Component(s): AIR BAGS

The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) has received a petition requesting a defect investigation into an alleged defect of the air bag system on 2006-2010 Pontiac Solstice and 2007-2010 Saturn Sky vehicles. The petition letter is attached for review.

The petitioner alleges that the Passenger Sensing System (PSS) sensor mat over time will kink, fold and eventually break. The petitioner further alleges that the break in the mat will cause a failure in the circuitry of the sensor mat that may lead to the passenger air bag system being inoperative (suppressed) when the seat is occupied by a passenger that would otherwise require air bag protection.

In Attachment B, the petitioner identified 933 complaints received by NHTSA alleging air bag system issues. The identified complaints encompass several General Motors vehicle models in addition to the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. ODI will evaluate these complaints further to determine if the complaints pertain to the issue cited in the petition.

This defect petition has been opened to evaluate the issue and determine whether to grant or deny the petition.

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #42 on:** May 19, 2016, 11:45:05 PM »

Damn!!!!!!!
Good work.

Sly Bob · « **Reply #43 on:** May 20, 2016, 06:21:50 AM »

That's the best news ever! You sir are the best.

2kwk4u · « **Reply #44 on:** May 20, 2016, 08:39:59 AM »

Awesome! I guess we're not really doing the "karma/smite" thing anymore. I suggest +1,000 for Robotech, nonetheless!

TomatoSoup · « **Reply #45 on:** May 20, 2016, 09:22:05 AM »

Robo, well done! I know that was a LOT of work you did for this and it's good to see that it paid off (hopefully

)

Adding to all the others... Congratulations!

Robotech · « **Reply #46 on:** May 20, 2016, 12:23:27 PM »

Thanks guys. Like I've said though, this was a group effort. I just did the final leg work. It would never have gotten this far without a lot of other folks on these forums forwarding contacts, dissecting the problem, and making their concern known to the NHTSA.

I can't link directly to the investigation but I can link to the general section. This is for the 2007 Saturn Sky but it would apply to all Kappas. Just click on the investigations tab and it's the first one on the page (there are only two...)
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchResults;jsessionid=ZsTkX1ySWFtnrY5T07xBm10YLZdRFNWNpctLgJ525xTwkBJzQHNn!-56154047?prodType=V&searchType=PROD&targetCategory=A&searchCriteria.model=SKY&stats=216053%2C4%2C2%2C165%2C59%2CSKY&makeStats=&jsonBaseURL=%2Fdownloads%2Ffolders%2F&searchCriteria.model_yr=2007&searchCriteria.make=SATURN&searchCriteria.prod_ids=216053

So far, this is the letter sent to GM by the NHTSA:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM519395/INIM-DP16001-63621.pdf

And this is the one sent to IEE:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM519293/INIS-DP16001-63622.pdf

GM has until June 27th to respond to this request for information. The NHTSA is asking for a lot but they are also asking GM to look into Warranty Returns which concerns me as this will not show the depth of the problem (see the original report for details as to why...no need to go over it all again here). However, I do know that my report has been seen and read by someone in GM management (no clue as to who or how high) so I'm hoping that GM expands its research beyond just warranty claims. Will see what GM responds with but I'd guess that their initial response will be to ask for more time so don't think we'll have an answer by the end of June.

IEE is being asked to provide information as to which manufacturers received this specific PSS mat. Their due date is June 1st. If you look at the Cadillac CTS recall for the same issue, IEE basically said "This is the only car that has this mat." and I suspect a similar response this time around. We'll see if they state something different or if the NHTSA accepts this answer.

IEE's response to the Cadillac investigation:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/ACM16799780/INRL-EQ11001-45261.pdf

Good news is you can see there that they were asked to provide this info by the NHTSA on Feb 8, 2011 and replied by Feb 15, 2011. So we may see a response from IEE in the next couple of weeks.

This was the whole goal of this process which lead me to write that paper back in Jan/Feb. I firmly believe something WILL come of this.

Robotech · « **Reply #47 on:** May 21, 2016, 06:37:32 PM »

Looks like a couple of websites have picked up the story.

https://consumerist.com/2016/05/20/after-nearly-1000-complaints-regulators-may-open-investigation-into-gm-airbag-issue/

NHTSA Petitioned to Investigate Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky | CarComplaints.com

Rockchops · « **Reply #48 on:** May 22, 2016, 10:41:52 AM »

Fantastic work!!!

Sent from an abacus

BigSal · « **Reply #49 on:** May 22, 2016, 07:33:36 PM »

Awesome Work. I thank you for all of the time consuming research and leg work to get this issue traction.

Salvatore

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Author Topic: Campaign to Initiate NHTSA Investigation into Kappa Passenger Presence Sensor (Read 64575 times)