Topic: Did my brakes today..... hawk hps

[skyguy1984]

So i did my brakes today, replaced them with hawk hps pads front and rear.

now my brother put the grease on the wrong side of the pads, so i took brake cleaner on the front pads and cleaned the front pads as well as i could got all the stuff off of them but enviably got fluff on them, so i took as much of it off as i could but figured it would evaporate with the use of the pads, i bled the brake fluid as well with dot4 motul 600 fluid, i bled them properly i think no air left in them, went and just bedded the brakes. and they felt really soft compared to stock during my bed in process......

i am thinking a couple of things as too why they feel so soft,

there is still some air in brake fluid? (good possibility but i did the brakes pretty well.......)
the contaminants on the pads ruined the pads or need to be worn off in time? (i doubt it but who knows)
the brakes during the bed in process just are suppose to feel soft? (most likely but i don't know)

any ideas?

[Sol Asylum]

How did you bleed the brakes?  Better question is why did you bleed the brakes?  My guess is that you let some air into the system.  Usually when you change pads you don't have to bleed the system unless you removed a brake line or opened the system.  Sometimes bleeding an anti-lock system is more intense then just pump the pedal and open the bleed valve.  Anyone with a manual for the Kappa have the proper bleed procedure? 

[Ben L]

Soft pedal is usually air somewhere in the system, or a leak in the M/C. 

But since you bled the brakes, the KISS rule suggests that you got some air in there somewhere.

I do not know the recommended procedure for the Kappa, but I am sure someone out there does.

[Koobie]

So i did my brakes today, replaced them with hawk hps pads front and rear.

now my brother put the grease on the wrong side of the pads, so i took brake cleaner on the front pads and cleaned the front pads as well as i could got all the stuff off of them but enviably got fluff on them, so i took as much of it off as i could but figured it would evaporate with the use of the pads, i bled the brake fluid as well with dot4 motul 600 fluid, i bled them properly i think no air left in them, went and just bedded the brakes. and they felt really soft compared to stock during my bed in process......

i am thinking a couple of things as too why they feel so soft,

there is still some air in brake fluid? (good possibility but i did the brakes pretty well.......)
the contaminants on the pads ruined the pads or need to be worn off in time? (i doubt it but who knows)
the brakes during the bed in process just are suppose to feel soft? (most likely but i don't know)

any ideas?

Let me ask you this, why would you disconnect brake lines to change pads?  I've done pads / rotors in more than 3 different cars and I have never had to bleed the brakes.

For your situation... I'd just try bleeding them again to make sure there are no air in the lines.  Search google for "Bleeding Brakes" and you should find a few DIY articles to help with clarification.

[Sly Bob]

The following procedure for manual bleeding was posted on the bb by Small Dealer in March 2007. Pressure bleeding would be different.

Quote:
Hydraulic Brake System Bleeding (Manual)
Caution: Refer to Brake Fluid Irritant Caution in Cautions and Notices.

Notice: When adding fluid to the brake master cylinder reservoir, use only Delco Supreme 11®, GM P/N 12377967 (Canadian P/N 992667), or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container. The use of any type of fluid other than the recommended type of brake fluid, may cause contamination which could result in damage to the internal rubber seals and/or rubber linings of hydraulic brake system components.

Notice: Refer to Brake Fluid Effects on Paint and Electrical Components Notice in Cautions and Notices.

1. Place a clean shop cloth beneath the brake master cylinder to prevent brake fluid spills.

2. With the ignition OFF and the brakes cool, apply the brakes 3-5 times, or until the brake pedal effort increases significantly, in order to deplete the brake booster power reserve.

3. If you have performed a brake master cylinder bench bleeding on this vehicle, or if you disconnected the brake pipes from the master cylinder, or disconnected the brake pipes from the proportioning valve assembly or the brake modulator assembly, you must perform the following steps to bleed air at the ports of the hydraulic component:

3.1. Ensure that the brake master cylinder reservoir is full to the maximum-fill level. If necessary, add GM approved, or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container.

If removal of the reservoir cap and diaphragm is necessary, clean the outside of the reservoir on and around the cap prior to removal.

3.2. With the brake pipes installed securely to the master cylinder, proportioning valve assembly, or brake modulator assembly, loosen and separate one of the brake pipes from the port of the component. For the proportioning valve assembly or the brake modulator assembly perform these steps in the sequence of system flow; begin with the fluid feed pipes from the master cylinder.

3.3. Allow a small amount of brake fluid to gravity bleed from the open port of the component.

3.4. Reconnect the brake pipe to the component port and tighten securely.

3.5. Have an assistant slowly depress the brake pedal fully and maintain steady pressure on the pedal.

3.6. Loosen the same brake pipe to purge air from the open port of the component.

3.7. Tighten the brake pipe, then have the assistant slowly release the brake pedal.

3.8. Wait 15 seconds, then repeat steps 3.3-3.7 until all air is purged from the same port of the component.

3.9. With the brake pipe installed securely to the master cylinder, proportioning valve assembly, or brake modulator assembly-after all air has been purged from the first port of the component that was bled-loosen and separate the next brake pipe from the component, then repeat steps 3.3-3.8 until each of the ports on the component have been bled.

3.10. After completing the final component port bleeding procedure, ensure that each of the brake pipe-to-component fittings are properly tightened.

4. Fill the brake master cylinder reservoir with GM approved, or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container. Ensure that the brake master cylinder reservoir remains at least half-full during this bleeding procedure. Add fluid as needed to maintain the proper level.

Clean the outside of the reservoir on and around the reservoir cap prior to removing the cap and diaphragm.

5. Install a proper box-end wrench onto the RIGHT REAR wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve.

6. Install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve.

7. Submerge the open end of the transparent hose into a transparent container partially filled with GM approved, or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container.

8. Have an assistant slowly depress the brake pedal fully and maintain steady pressure on the pedal.

9. Loosen the bleeder valve to purge air from the wheel hydraulic circuit.

10. Tighten the bleeder valve, then have the assistant slowly release the brake pedal.

11. Wait 15 seconds, then repeat steps 8-10 until all air is purged from the same wheel hydraulic circuit.

12. With the right rear wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve tightened securely, after all air has been purged from the right rear hydraulic circuit, install a proper box-end wrench onto the LEFT FRONT wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve.

13. Install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve, then repeat steps 7-11.

14. With the left front wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve tightened securely, after all air has been purged from the left front hydraulic circuit, install a proper box-end wrench onto the LEFT REAR wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve.

15. Install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve, then repeat steps 7-11.

16. With the left rear wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve tightened securely, after all air has been purged from the left rear hydraulic circuit, install a proper box-end wrench onto the RIGHT FRONT wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valve.

17. Install a transparent hose over the end of the bleeder valve, then repeat steps 7-11.

18. After completing the final wheel hydraulic circuit bleeding procedure, ensure that each of the 4 wheel hydraulic circuit bleeder valves are properly tightened.

19. Fill the brake master cylinder reservoir to the maximum-fill level with GM approved, or equivalent DOT-3 brake fluid from a clean, sealed brake fluid container.

20. Slowly depress and release the brake pedal. Observe the feel of the brake pedal.

Important: If it is determined that air was induced into the system upstream of the ABS modulator prior to servicing, the Antilock Brake System Automated Bleed Procedure must be performed.

21. If the brake pedal feels spongy, repeat the bleeding procedure again. If the brake pedal still feels spongy after repeating the bleeding procedure, perform the following steps:

21.1. Inspect the brake system for external leaks. Refer to Brake System External Leak Inspection .

21.2. Pressure bleed the hydraulic brake system in order to purge any air that may still be trapped in the system.

22. Turn the ignition key ON, with the engine OFF. Check to see if the brake system warning lamp remains illuminated.

Important: DO NOT allow the vehicle to be driven until it is diagnosed and repaired.

If the brake system warning lamp remains illuminated, refer to Symptoms - Hydraulic Brakes .

Quote:
Antilock Brake System Automated Bleed Procedure

Caution: Refer to Brake Fluid Irritant Caution in Cautions and Notices.

Notice: Refer to Brake Fluid Effects on Paint and Electrical Components Notice in Cautions and Notices.

Important: Before performing the ABS Automated Bleed Procedure, first perform a manual or pressure bleed of the base brake system. Refer to Hydraulic Brake System Bleeding . The automated bleed procedure is recommended when one of the following conditions exist:

• Base brake system bleeding does not achieve the desired pedal height or feel

• Extreme loss of brake fluid has occurred

• Air ingestion is suspected in the secondary circuits of the brake modulator assembly


The ABS Automated Bleed Procedure uses a scan tool to cycle the system solenoid valves and run the pump in order to purge any air from the secondary circuits. These circuits are normally closed off, and are only opened during system initialization at vehicle start up and during ABS operation. The automated bleed procedure opens these secondary circuits and allows any air trapped in these circuits to flow out toward the brake corners.

Performing the Automated Bleed Procedure

Notice: The Auto Bleed Procedure may be terminated at any time during the process by pressing the EXIT button. No further Scan Tool prompts pertaining to the Auto Bleed procedure will be given. After exiting the bleed procedure, relieve bleed pressure and disconnect bleed equipment per manufacturers instructions. Failure to properly relieve pressure may result in spilled brake fluid causing damage to components and painted surfaces.

1. Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle .

2. Remove all four tire and wheel assemblies. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation .

3. Inspect the brake system for leaks and visual damage. Refer to Symptoms - Hydraulic Brakes . Repair or replace components as needed.

4. Lower the vehicle.

5. Inspect the battery state of charge. Refer to Battery Inspection/Test .

6. Install a scan tool.

7. Turn the ignition ON, with the engine OFF.

8. With the scan tool, establish communications with the ABS system. Select Special Functions. Select Automated Bleed from the Special Functions menu.

9. Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle .

10. Following the directions given on the scan tool, pressure bleed the base brake system. Refer to Hydraulic Brake System Bleeding .

11. Follow the scan tool directions until the desired brake pedal height is achieved.

12. If the bleed procedure is aborted, a malfunction exists. Perform the following steps before resuming the bleed procedure:
• If a DTC is detected, refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle , and diagnose the appropriate DTC.

• If the brake pedal feels spongy, perform the conventional brake bleed procedure again. Refer to Hydraulic Brake System Bleeding .

13. When the desired pedal height is achieved, press the brake pedal to inspect for firmness.

14. Lower the vehicle.

15. Remove the scan tool.

16. Install the tire and wheel assemblies. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation .

17. Inspect the brake fluid level. Refer to Master Cylinder Reservoir Filling .

18. Road test the vehicle while inspecting that the pedal remains high and firm.