Topic: Switching from BSR to westers

[rich71]

I am on the fence on changing to Wester race tune from my BSR. I am wondering how much increase will I get over my BSR. I am not planning on any further modifications. My quandry is spending money on hpt tuner and the tune itself for ???? additional horsepower/torque. For the money spent, is it worth it to scrap the BSR(1k investment in the garbage). Now that the boost cap may be eliminated, I am leaning even more towards Westers. If i do upgrade it won't be until next spring so I guess there will be time to see what Westers can do with no boost limit. Can we run more than 25 pounds boost at lower rpms without worrying about knock retard? Will the removal of the cap limit just benefit a bigger turbo?  I am thinking the answer is to just wait and see what happens, but i just don't know what kind of expectations to have if I do switch to Westers. It sucks that the BSR isn't tweakable.

[opjohn]

Rich71... Is that the reason you don't like the BSR tune ? Tweakability ? My buddy has it on his Redline and it screams.

[lil goat]

My advice see if you can sell the BSR, I believe if you reset to factory then it can be used on another car, my Hypertech was that way and I sold it. If you got half your money back, that would mean free HP Tuners. I am sure someone would jump on a BSR for $500. I am sooooo happy I bought HPT, it helped diagnose and issue with my sons GTO the other day, we never would have figured out. We ran a scan and sent it off, it was analyzed and now we now it is a bad MAP reading keeping the car from starting. People seem to forget HPT is an awesome tool, and can do a LOT more than load a tune. I tune 4 different vehicles with mine, 2 trucks and a GTO plus the Solstice, Wester sells tunes for them all. I can do real time diags on the car with HPT and have. I would be lost without mine.

[Kelu]

Rich I saw your case in some other guys also. I was tempted myself to get BSR at the begining just because it was cheap shipping for me cause they are european company.

But after reading some real examples (one of the best is SKY888 from BB) I decided that is more important to have Wester's even I don't plan to change my turbo for at least one year but any upgrade part installed (aftermartket IC, exhaust, etc) was loosing power with BSR tune, no one wants that.

At this moment the differences I don't think will be overwhelming in power to worth the amount, but if you look on long term then makes sense. Also with HPT you can do more than just updating a tune as lil goat pointed.

[rich71]

I believe i would need to sell my ecm with the tuner as it is locked into the vin number. Yes my car "screams" too. I am quite happy with the performance. I am just wondering if it is worth to re invest in a new tune, if i am only going to get 10 hp and trq. The "bang for the buck" factor doesn't seem to be there. Or I am unsure if it is there, or what the real world gains are.....would I even notice the difference between the BSR and Westers with the mods I have?    I have a dashhawk so I can log and check codes and such so that part of hpt wouldn't benefit me..... decisions decisions. 

[lil goat]

The BSR dyno sheets I have seen are usually around 250 to 255 torque about the same, the Wester's sheet's are closer to 285-290 and torque on the Wester's is usually over 320. You decide. Check your BSR manual, if you removed the tune it may unmarry, most other brands do. This is so you can remove it when you sell the car and sell the tuner.

I have a Dashawk too, it won't do half what HP Tuners will do. Can you check the voltage of the MAP sensor with the key in the on position, and the car not started. I can, and needed to on my sons GTO. If you change tires can you recal the speedo with a Dashawk. I have not even scratched the surface of what HP Tuners can do and I would not be without it, but that's just me. I know if I had spent $1000 on the BSR I would be reluctant to change.

[Filipp]

I was at the track where a Kappa with a BSR tune + Hahn IC + Magnaflow Exhaust put out great numbers. He was able to do an 8.5-8.6 1/8mile each time. His car was an auto though so I don't think the BSR tune is far behind Wester's if any behind at all. Gotta remember the Germans make good stuff lol.

See if you can find someone with a Wester's tune in your area and setup a drag racing day to compare. Then you can see in real world conditions which tune is better because as we all know a dyno is just a tuning tool and it doesn't always mean better times in real world.

I am not knocking either tune just saying its best to compare at the track.

[DeepBlueGXP]

I didn't see a high flow cat in your list but a Westers tune with cat and exhaust, manual can net around 295 RWHP (STD-0, that is what Hahn uses) and with an intercooler upgrade, perhaps another 10-12 HP at the wheels.

BTW, you vin is tracked to more than one component.  Selling the ECM with the BSR may not work on another car.  You should test that first.

[Kelu]

I was at the track where a Kappa with a BSR tune + Hahn IC + Magnaflow Exhaust put out great numbers. He was able to do an 8.5-8.6 1/8mile each time. His car was an auto though so I don't think the BSR tune is far behind Wester's if any behind at all. Gotta remember the Germans make good stuff lol.

Petty they are swedens

8.5 -8.6 with those parts is weak in my opinion I was doing that with my bone stock GT and factory tires with ONLY Westers tune.
See it here: http://kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=932.msg24684#msg24684

In this moment 5-20 hp more maybe doesn't seems much but think about the other things which in long term REALLY WORTH.

Another thing, it's a HUGE difference between an european tune and Wester's. European sell only for stock cars, you don't want to know how much they ask for updates for each part if you didn't got it from them. I give you an example, EDS (one of the most famous tuners for Opel in Germany) asks about $500 for stage one (stock car), if you buy from them parts (of course over priced) like IC, exhaust, bigger turbo you have to pay an extra $500-$1500 for updating the tune. Also they don't work to improve their base tune, they develop one and that's it.
Now do the math between Wester's and BSR

I ordered Dejon IC and Solo turbo back, I will travel in September again to the drag strip and I will show you some numbers my aim is to go on 12s instead of 13.5s which I did with only the tune.

[lil goat]

I was at the track where a Kappa with a BSR tune + Hahn IC + Magnaflow Exhaust put out great numbers. He was able to do an 8.5-8.6 1/8mile each time. His car was an auto though so I don't think the BSR tune is far behind Wester's if any behind at all. Gotta remember the Germans make good stuff lol.

See if you can find someone with a Wester's tune in your area and setup a drag racing day to compare. Then you can see in real world conditions which tune is better because as we all know a dyno is just a tuning tool and it doesn't always mean better times in real world.

I am not knocking either tune just saying its best to compare at the track.

 For the record BSR is not German, it's Swedish. There have been several people who have converted from the BSR to Wester's like Spikey. There is a huge difference, like I said before about 40 hp and a ton of torque, and as of yesterday with the new HP Tuners beta release the Wester's tune will blow the BSR away. DBG is doing consistent 13.5's in the 1/4 with a stock intercooler. Only slips I have seen faster were Rusty, and people with meth. injection.

[Filipp]

My bad thought they were German, I am just saying BSR isn't as bad as you guys say it is. I am impartial to both since I have the GMPP tune. But that day at the track where the BSR ran a 8.5 a Wester's tune best run was a 9.0. Differences were that both had different exhausts, both had different aftermarket intercoolers and the BSR was automatic while the Wester's was Manual.

Now yes you can give me times and etccc from other tracks but this is a legit testing because both were at the same track with the same temperature and with the same atmospheric settings. So I am just saying the track is where the real world testing happens and not the dyno. It is still my recommendation to the OP to find someone in his area with a Wester's and go to the track with them to see how it stacks up to the BSR. If the times are significantly faster then make the change but if there not save your 1k and stay with the BSR since you already paid 1k for it.

[lil goat]

Have the drivers switch cars then I will validate your findings, also which Wester's tune, there have been many. I don't disrespect BSR, I just know what there tune does, it manipulates the wastegate algorithm, the tune has been downloaded with HP Tuners and read, there is no big secret to what they are doing. You can obtain almost the same results as a BSR by adjusting the wastegate, the advantage of the BSR is it doesn't get learned out like the wastegate mod. By the way a wastegate adjusted wrong can really screw up a Wester's tune, or a BSR for that matter. The BSR with the wastgate mod is pretty hot if you don't crank in to much. Lots an lots of variables even in a drag race. The overboost codes have been eliminated by HP Tuners, people will be blowing up some turbo's, anyone can do it now with HP Tuners. I will trust Lyndon not to send me a tune that blows my turbo. The Wester's tune has always made more HP that the GMPP, Lyndon has the GMPP on his wife's car and had to modify it to get it back to what it was with his race tune. He was getting huge power from the GMPP kit, but getting overboost CEL's, HP Tuners fixed that. The hot ticket will be the GMPP tuned by Wester's.

[sol_man]

Hey Rich, DBG is right about the VIN issue.  Even if I was unhappy with my low 13 second, problem free, BSR Tune I wouldn't be able to sell it.  As far as tweakable part, it didn't prevent me from gaining 2/10s in the quarter mile after I added the GMP Exhaust but I know Spiky had some issues with his.  Maybe mine is a fluke but it's been doing great for 2 years and I don't have to update any tunes or do anything to the car but drive it.

If you could find someone with a Westers to compare like Filipp said it would be good to know.  I'd love to see that myself.

[GregGXP]

Hey Rich, DBG is right about the VIN issue.  Even if I was unhappy with my low 13 second, problem free, BSR Tune I wouldn't be able to sell it.  As far as tweakable part, it didn't prevent me from gaining 2/10s in the quarter mile after I added the GMP Exhaust but I know Spiky had some issues with his.  Maybe mine is a fluke but it's been doing great for 2 years and I don't have to update any tunes or do anything to the car but drive it.

If you could find someone with a Westers to compare like Filipp said it would be good to know.  I'd love to see that myself.

You don't have to update anyone's tune if you don't want to. Your comment makes it seem as if some tunes have to be updated and that is not the case. However, if you want updates to your tune to take advantage of new cracks, new mods, etc... then you might want to consider a tune that can be updated, especially for free 

[sol_man]

You're right Greg, didn't mean for it to sound that way.  I'm sure if something came out that would give me more fun I wouldn't mind updating my tune, especially for free!

[rich71]

My BSR works fine with the mods i have. NO porblems at all and it has gotten me in trouble with the law on more than one occasion.  ......I am thinking it may not be taking full advantage of the air filter,ic, exhaust(free-er flowing 2.5 anyway).  I had posted this originally as i was thinking of the westers race tune adjusted for my mods, then maybe tweaking the boost limit to a little higher(24-25 pounds) throughout more of the rpm range without throwing a code now as the boost cap can be removed(done by westers as an update hopefully)......not enough to kill the turbo, enough to keep it closer to its maximum safe limit of operation,....... but my curiosity about what i just wrote is driving me nuts. 

[lil goat]

No tune will get you in trouble with the law that would be your FOOT. I got a ticket in my NA, it was stock. I have yet to see time slips better than DBG's , except Rusty (driver skill level). Runs with the Dashawk don't count, if someone is running in the low 13's don't change anything, that is VERY fast for a Kappa, if you are running 93 octane.  If you are in the low 13's you are an exceptional driver as I know of no tune that will put you there easily. DBG's car is fast, very fast I have seen it and ridden in it, and he is a consistent driver 13.5's at MIR. He has posted the time slips.

[GregGXP]

not enough to kill the turbo, enough to keep it closer to its maximum safe limit of operation,.......

Rich, this is where picking and trusting the right tuner becomes crucial. 

[Critterman]

Unfortunately I have seen those timeslips as well  

[deepwater805]

I've got the BSR, and have been completely happy with it. On the rare occasion where I've needed to, (only twice) I've smoked the tires, and dropping it into 4th for a high end freeway acceleration never fails to induce an adrenaline rush. I mean: What more could a guy want? 

[spicy3480]

I changed from the BSR tune to Westers, and I would do it again every single time.  The BSR tune was not mod friendly at all, and getting tech support from them is like yelling through a brick wall.  Westers has a vast amount of tunes for all of the different mods out there.  HP Tuners is extremely useful software, as goat stated earlier.  The BSR does marry to your VIN.  You would have to send it back to BSR and have them reprogram it so that you can sell it, but I don't think the chances of them doing that are too high, especially since they are in Sweden.  Put it this way, Lyndon and Westers are so good to us, we all chipped in and bought him a ProBeam and Backbone...he takes very good care of us even though we are not his main money makers.  The Westers tune is also a noticeable change from the BSR.  There is definitely more HP and torque...lots more torque, and the way the car drives is just an overall better feel.  Lyndon is very quick to respond to emails, also.  I have sent him a file and gotten a new one back in as quick as 15 minutes.  There has been a lot of information on the forums backing him up as our most reputable tuner, and he's a great guy on top of that all.  He is working on newer things with the GM sensors and the new overboost tables.  It will take time, as he has a business to run, but he has never failed to deliver!!