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Author Topic: Distance debate Miles vs NM  (Read 11594 times)

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Offline 1LILNDN

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« on: July 22, 2009, 07:02:26 PM »
Um, Montreal and Calgary are 2250 miles apart... That's like Lyndon saying "Hey, i'm gonna be in Seattle, maybe I'll try to stop by Chicago while I'm down there."
Didn't know it was that far,Oh well went to Denver in little over 1 day just about 2200 miles(thats U.S. Miles) Driving is what I do best long haul :drive:  :brnout:
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Offline LiquidPT

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2009, 09:30:36 PM »
(thats U.S. Miles)

There's only 1 kind of mile... most of the rest of the world uses kilometers...

Now gallons, that's a different story. There's a difference between a US gallon and an Imperial (British) gallon. Canada used the Imperial gallon before it went metric in the 70s...
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2009, 11:00:35 PM »
There's only 1 kind of mile... most of the rest of the world uses kilometers...

Now gallons, that's a different story. There's a difference between a US gallon and an Imperial (British) gallon. Canada used the Imperial gallon before it went metric in the 70s...

What about nautical miles?  They don't equal a statute mile you know.

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Offline LiquidPT

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2009, 11:03:43 PM »
What about nautical miles?  They don't equal a statute mile you know.



Fine, yes, but you don't normally refer to those as just "miles" (though, I must admit, I haven't spent a lot of time on a boat... do sailors just say "miles" and "nautical miles" is implied?)
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2009, 11:05:21 PM »
WOW!  That may be one of one in Canada!  I've been searching for someone selling a coupe for months, not one dealership ever listed one for sale.  Although, if they were ordered directly for customers, they would not show up in my searches.  So maybe not one of one, but that car is going to be VERY rare in Canada.

Now slap some Alberta plates on there and it's worth 5 grand more!

You forgot to convert it to Canadian money so thats like 5.5 grand more.  :ca2: :us2:
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2009, 11:09:16 PM »
Fine, yes, but you don't normally refer to those as just "miles" (though, I must admit, I haven't spent a lot of time on a boat... do sailors just say "miles" and "nautical miles" is implied?)

I don't know about sailors but in the aviation world we just call them knots and yes almost every plane in the world uses them except maybe those bloody French.
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Offline LiquidPT

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 12:09:49 AM »
I don't know about sailors but in the aviation world we just call them knots and yes almost every plane in the world uses them except maybe those bloody French.

Knots is speed, isn't it? Is that Nautical miles/hour? You don't say "we're 10 knots away from our destination" do you?
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 01:15:29 AM »
One knot is equal to one NM so they are interchangeable it goes back to how sailors determined speed.  They would drop a board of sorts (I don't know exactly how to describe it) into the water there would be a rope attached to it with knots tied into the rope and then they would count how many knots would pass as the rope spooled out over a given time.  So basically they know how far then went in a given time and said 1K=1NM

I don't know about other pilots but I usually just say I am X minutes out from my destination.  ATC should know where I am thats what the radar/transponder is for.  If I said a distance I would just say miles and they would know I meant NM because that is the global standard in aviation.  Except for the French because they invented the metric system and they some how think that the rest of the world should follow them, which I can only think they believe due to their history of outstanding military leadership.
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Offline LiquidPT

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2009, 01:30:43 AM »
One knot is equal to one NM so they are interchangeable it goes back to how sailors determined speed.  They would drop a board of sorts (I don't know exactly how to describe it) into the water there would be a rope attached to it with knots tied into the rope and then they would count how many knots would pass as the rope spooled out over a given time.  So basically they know how far then went in a given time and said 1K=1NM

I don't know about other pilots but I usually just say I am X minutes out from my destination.  ATC should know where I am thats what the radar/transponder is for.  If I said a distance I would just say miles and they would know I meant NM because that is the global standard in aviation.  Except for the French because they invented the metric system and they some how think that the rest of the world should follow them, which I can only think they believe due to their history of outstanding military leadership.

OK, i looked it up... a knot is speed only... it's 1 nautical mile/hour... so it's incorrect to say that 1 knot = 1 nautical mile... one is speed (distance over time) and one is distance

And I hate to break it to you, but the entire world (other than the US) DOES use the metric system. It's far simpler to understand, and you don't have to remember random conversion factors... (just how many yards are there in a mile anyways?)
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Offline KWhale

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2009, 01:39:57 AM »
This should really grease this discussion up - "How many feet are there in a mile? There are 5280 feet in a statute mile or approximately 6076 feet in a nautical mile"
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Offline Chemist

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Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2009, 10:35:07 AM »
Liberia and Myanmar, I believe, have yet to make SI their official measuring system. :D

The U.S.A., with it's historically entrenched industrial sector using the English metric, has, IMO, been understandably and forgivably slow to completely convert to the SI metric. To be honest, I much prefer the SI metric as long as I'm not reading a recipe. :)
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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 06:53:58 PM »
a NM is 6000 feet, at least that's what the Navy uses. 
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2009, 09:27:02 PM »
OK, i looked it up... a knot is speed only... it's 1 nautical mile/hour... so it's incorrect to say that 1 knot = 1 nautical mile... one is speed (distance over time) and one is distance

And I hate to break it to you, but the entire world (other than the US) DOES use the metric system. It's far simpler to understand, and you don't have to remember random conversion factors... (just how many yards are there in a mile anyways?)

So if I am moving at 1K which equals 1NM/H will I not move 1NM in an hours time?  Of course I will unless I am travailing in a circle but even then I will have covered 1NM  I just might not be 1NM from where I started.  It might not be accurate to say I am going to travel 1 knot but anyone who has a remote understanding of knots knows how far one will travel.  Just like most people will understand when you say you where driving at 65 on the interstate that you meant MPH or if your on the metric system KPH.  So yeah I should have said 1K=1NM/H but it was my mistake in thinking you would understand, my bad.

Your not breaking anything to me.  In aviation no mater what country you are in or flying over NM is the standard unit of distance. Another aviation standard, English is the spoken language for all communications on the radio, so even a German pilot at a German airport will speak English (I just love the fact that the French have to do it to).   The French just like to label their instruments in large metric deviations and then little tiny standard units which just confuses people and could end up being quite dangerous because most people don't realize it.
I am not saying that the rest of the world doesn't use the metric system just that in aviation metric is not predominately used.  FWIW until a few years ago in aviation temperature was always in F but now its C, don't ask me why.

Also America is not the only country that hasn't switched to metric the British have only half ass adopted metric, but then they still use stones as a unit of weight.

(just how many yards are there in a mile anyways?)  If anyone really needed to know this it would be something that they would remember, but a more challenging question would be: when was the last time you actually needed that number? :idk:

Chemist, aren't most of your chemical equations technically recipes? :poke:
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Offline Chemist

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 11:12:44 PM »
Chemist, aren't most of your chemical equations technically recipes? :poke:
Only if I'm performing them in a kitchen. :lol:
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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 11:23:13 PM »
(just how many yards are there in a mile anyways?)  If anyone really needed to know this it would be something that they would remember, but a more challenging question would be: when was the last time you actually needed that number?

The measurement system in the US is full of these meaningless numbers you have to remember... I've needed to know how many feet there are in a mile (i know it's over 5000, and if I need the exact # I have to do 1320 * 4... I know 1320 cuz I drag race)

And i'm just learning these damn things... in the metric system the answer is always 10! (or 100 or 1000). No need to memorize random #s cuz the power of 10 is right there in the name of the unit (1 kilometer is 1000 meter... similarly, a kilogram is 1000 grams)

I can never keep the US #s straight... I always have to ask my GF who grew up in CA, and even then, she's not sure sometimes... I know 4 quarts to a gallon... it's in the name... but cups & pints? Hell if I know most of the time..
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Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2009, 07:05:08 AM »
[rant]

The metric system is equally goofy at times. For example, the definition of a meter is how for light travels in 1⁄299,792,458 of a second. Supposedly at first it was 1/10,000 of the distance from the equator to the North Pole, but that measurement was apparnently flawed as well. Why not just base it off of a yard, and work from there? That way we have a common point for conversions. Same with weight and volume.

There's another issue as well. Quite a few people complain about the fact that you have to use fractions with the English system. Well, get over it. Why? Because in math, a decimal is not considered an exact answer. For instance, a third is impossible to fully write with decimals, yet a simple fraction provides the exact answer. All of the Algebra and Calculus classes I've taken have required exact answers, therefore fractions rather than decimal approximations. I should note that when using decimals it's possible to come up with a different enough answer to throw an electronic circuit out of whack.

So, if the use of fractions is what turns you off of the English system, well get over it.

All being said and done though, I think all people should know and understand both systems, whether your contry uses one or the other. Remember when that NASA probe crashed because some engineers were using kilometers and others miles?

[/rant]
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Offline KWhale

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2009, 02:00:52 PM »
A big agreement on knowing both systems 238.  There was an Air Canada passenger jet full of people that almost paid the price from a refueling dude not knowing the difference.  A new model of a plane landed in Montreal on it's way to the west.  The jet was new to give the guy credit, but it required fuel.  I have no idea what the numbers are, but as an example, let's say it needed 500 gallons.  The dude put in 500 liters.  The pilots made a bad assumption that the fuel gauges were off because the plane was new.  Pretty soon all 4 engines flamed out, and they had to make an emergency glide landing at an abandoned air strip.  The problem was, they were using it for a drag strip now, and no one knew it until the plane was about to land.  Luckily, no one got run over, and the plane actually landed in mostly 1 piece, no deaths.  I can just imagine the looks on those peoples faces as the silent jet comes down and lands right in the middle of their car show/drag day!

All because a guy was confused by gallons vs liters!
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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2009, 08:34:10 PM »
FYI jet fuel on large planes is usually measured in pounds because a gallon of jet fuel is not a consistent unit of measure since the volume will change a great deal with a change in temp, planes can go from 100+F to -60F in just a few minuets from takeoff to cruse altitude.  Most of the time commercial jets are never topped off because excess fuel will literally be dead weight and it will mean more fuel is burnt just to move the excess fuel which is not needed.  So since a pound of fuel weighs the same no matter what the temp and volume can change because there is excess room in the tank they just go by pounds.

In your example if the crew asked for fuel in KG and the line guy thought he meant pounds (which is the standard unit) 100 KG should have meant 220 lbs but if the line put in only 100 lbs they would have got less then half of what they wanted.

Given standard conditions (temp, pressure, etc) 1 gal of jet fuel weighs 6.7 lbs (don't go trying to bust my ass on this one LPT I know one unit is mass and the other is volume, that standard conditions thing is my form of a disclaimer)
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Offline LiquidPT

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2009, 08:58:20 PM »
Given standard conditions (temp, pressure, etc) 1 gal of jet fuel weighs 6.7 lbs (don't go trying to bust my ass on this one LPT I know one unit is mass and the other is volume, that standard conditions thing is my form of a disclaimer)

Hey, I know what you meant by standard conditions. I took chemistry too... :D

That's how the gram is defined. A cubic centimeter is defined as a milliliter (volume). The mass (not weight, that's another debate) of 1 milliliter of pure water at standard conditions is 1 gram. I love how all that stuff ties together.
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2009, 09:02:47 AM »
1 gallon = 6.7 lbs but you forgot one thing.  At what temp?
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Offline LiquidPT

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2009, 11:35:44 AM »
1 gallon = 6.7 lbs but you forgot one thing.  At what temp?

No he didn't... "Given standard conditions".. "standard conditions" is a technical term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_conditions_for_temperature_and_pressure

I was taught it was 20C and 1 ATM
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2009, 04:27:43 PM »
I didn't give a specific temp on purpose because I couldn't find what it was defined as.  I would assume it to be defined as "aviation standard conditions" but don't know for sure.

Aviation standard conditions are: at sea level, 59F, and 29.92 inHg

59F=15C sorry LPT I didn't define the standard (I'm not trying to be difficult, I guess like Lil Goat, I just am) :gaah: :goat:

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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2009, 06:15:01 PM »
Damn it! :goat:  I hate it when you're right   :banghead: They just did a rerun of the exact flight I was talking about on that Discovery show "Mayday"......liters, kilograms, whatever  :gaah:
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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2009, 09:47:17 PM »
Aviation standard conditions are: at sea level, 59F, and 29.92 inHg

59F=15C sorry LPT I didn't define the standard (I'm not trying to be difficult, I guess like Lil Goat, I just am) :gaah: :goat:

I wasn't given you crap, I was defending the fact that you at least said "standard conditions". I also stated what *I* learned standard conditions to be in chem, since I saw in the wikipedia article that there were diff standards, depending on what field you are in.
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Re: Distance debate Miles vs NM
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2009, 03:05:28 PM »
Yeah it never ceases to amaze me how we have all these standards and yet they end up being different.  Kind of defeats the purpose.

No hard feeling Moby.  Imagine how the English must feel trying to figure out how their currency(Pounds Sterling) converts to KG, I bet they really hate the French and not just for that William the Conquerer guy.
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