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Author Topic: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED  (Read 5795 times)

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Offline Aspenrose

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Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« on: August 11, 2009, 09:08:36 AM »
First the 'players':
   Nothing has been replaced in the rear suspension (shocks, etc), or brakes.
   ProBeam installed, and Magnaflow exhaust, NA version

First suspect was the exhaust/ProBeam coming into contact, as there is very little space between the two, and the exhaust is mounted to the stock mounts, giving it some movement.  
(Note that there was no clanging from any PB-Exhaust conflict all the way home from Denver, the clanging began in earnest on the way home from Pittsburgh last month, and has gotten significantly worse since the diff replacement)

Last night I put it up on ramps, I'd already wrapped the exhaust pipe where it could come into contact with the ProBeam, and my vigorous shaking of the pipe could not produce the sound. So I took bailing wire and lashed the pipe to the Probeam tight, removing any movement.
Took it back out, and the sound did not change.

When the driver rear tire hits a bump, the clanging and banging coming from the rear end is deafening. Did some googling last night to come up with a possible list of suspects:

   E-brake issue (will test that today by putting it on as that wheel encounters a bump to see if there is any change) Suspect that due to the fact that within the last 2 months the range of travel for the e-brake handle has reduced significantly.

  Shock, not leaking, but with 81k miles, it's a possible suspect. Also noted that after the car has been up on jacks for a while, then let down, about 10 feet or so after rolling away, there is an audible clunk.

  Brake issues

I've yanked, pushed, pulled and harrassed every metal part on the rear of the Sol, as well as the front, and not coming up with anything to duplicate the clanging. When the pass rear caliper was loose, I was able to duplicate the sound, which was very similar.

I'm about ready to pull my hair out, it's horrid driving down the street hearing what sounds like a junk wagon rolling down the street!

I'd like some other possible ideas, tie rods? U-joints? However the symptoms that typically go with a failure with either of those is not present.

Kenny is  going back to the dealer, as the pinion seal is AGAIN leaking in his new differential, so suffice it to say, I am not a happy owner right now. Three tries to fix the leaking original diff, and I have to pay for a new one. Now leaking.  :gaah:

I'd like them to also address the junk wagon symphony, but not by trial and error, on my dime!!

« Last Edit: August 12, 2009, 02:49:15 PM by DeepBlueGXP »
'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 10:01:43 AM »
Also to add to the mix, when not encountering potholes or bumps, on what is a smooth stretch of, say, asphalt, there is a audible, but low level noise, not a clang, hard to describe-but I heard it last month on a long long drive home, before diff replacement. It's a sort of soft grind, not constant, but comes and goes in a perfect rhythm as the car rolls along-to match the speed. almost like one card catching a wheel spoke.

I'm going to take the camera, stash it in the trunk on the driver side, turned on to get a video stream with the noise on the way to work.  :idk:
'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 10:15:53 AM »
First off, I had the probeam and magnaflow exhaust and it hit too.  I took out the exhaust and where the rub mark was, I used a 5lb hammer to perswade the exhaust to bend out of the way.  The DLR could have cause the exhaust to probeam noise more after misalligning the exhaust during the rear diff install.

Additional noises

Check your caliper bolts, (2 each side) one could have fallen out, this happened to Go-N Def.

Auto X guys noted also the axel/hub mount in the rear has 3 or 4 bolts that as supposed to be installed and will work themselves out.  Put the car on rams and check on the inside.  Compare to Kathy's car for a reference. 

Top Shock bolts are a 15mm, you can access them with the wheel, you won't be able to move the shock with or without the weight on the car but bumps may produce the noise.  The lower shock bolt are through bolts, nuts on the bottom, if those are tight, that shouldn't be an issue.

Good luck

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 10:36:28 AM »
Thanks Joe-I almost removed the PB last night, considered it, as they are close, too close, and thought about doing some 'custom' persuasion on the exhaust, although I'd have to drop it from the hangers to get at it, don't think I could do it myself. More later, time to take the junk wagon into town, er I mean to work :D

Also did inspect the hub bolts, all seemed fine, will have a closer look at the caliper bolts tonight-should have put it on jack stands instead of ramps last night, that occurred to me this morning, so the wheels/suspension would have been hanging free to shake, rattle and inspect.
'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2009, 12:00:40 PM »
 :yay: Good news, or perhaps only 'news' as I drove through the parking lot @ work, listening to the noise all the while, I pulled the parking brake to the first click. Noise ceased immediately. Released the brake, noise. One click, silence. Now I know on some vehicles the E brake has it's own caliper or what have you, separate from the normal calipers. Since I'm sitting @ work, and didn't think to bring the manual  with,  does anyone know if our E brake is integrated into the system, or separate? I had not noticed a difference if applying the brakes over say a horribly bumpy stretch of road.

But, I will test that this afternoon!

'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2009, 12:05:01 PM »
Did you have your pads replaced recently?  If so you need to pull tha caliper and pump the brakes acouple of times to get pass the e-brake clip or lever and then retrack them with the clamp and caliper tool (that turns while your clamp) just enough to get the rotor in with the pads on.   That click will be gone. 

I did this for Critterman after the last mod meet.

Offline Critterman

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 12:07:14 PM »
There is a worm gear in the caliper for the ebrake, you might try re-adjusting them.  It sounds like maybe one of the ends that moves the gear may have popped out of place.
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
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Offline Critterman

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 12:08:20 PM »
great
Did you have your pads replaced recently?  If so you need to pull tha caliper and pump the brakes acouple of times to get pass the e-brake clip or lever and then retrack them with the clamp and caliper tool (that turns while your clamp) just enough to get the rotor in with the pads on.   That click will be gone. 

I did this for Critterman after the last mod meet.
great minds think alike, first thing I thought of as well.
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension
Lambo Doors

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 12:48:34 PM »
Still running original brakes. That said, after 'possibly' getting a rock in a caliper in Pittsburgh, I took it into XMM's dealer before the drive home. I don't know if they removed the calipers or not, however it was later that same day that the clanging started. Looks like another evening under Kenny, but feeling much closer to solving the issue!!

Thanks guys-I'll have a look at the service manual before I get under there, so I know what I'm looking for  :yay: :thumbs:
'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 03:23:58 PM »
You had the rear diff replaced, I"m not sure what all is involved but I believe a total disassembly of both sides; brakes, hubs etc is required to remove the shafts to the diff

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 05:49:42 PM »
True-however the clanging was there before the replacement.
Order of things, for the big picture

Late June: Change in range for E-brake
Mid July: Rock in caliper at PVGP, checked and  ?? at dealer
Mid July(Same day, 500 miles later):return of clanging assumed to be exhaust/Probeam on road home from PVGP

7/25:  Differential replaced
8/2: put on 400 miles/finished break in for diff (I don't recall how noisy it was that day, maybe Kathy does?)


And with that, I'm heading to home, so I can play e-brake detective :D

'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2009, 09:14:08 PM »
Ok. New info. put the Sol on jack stands, car in gear, E brake fully on.

Passenger tire/wheel, zero movement, none.

Driver tire/wheel, forward and back movement of better than an inch at the hub???

Car out of gear, e brake on

Pass wheel, same as before
Drive wheel, same as before

Car in gear, e brake off

ditto.

Car out of gear, ebrake off
 Pass wheel spins ok
 Driver wheel spins ok, but still the forward and back slop zone??

No in and out movement and not able to replicate the noise. All caliper bolts tight, nothing 'obviously' amiss with the ebrake.

I'm officially stumped.
'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2009, 05:49:39 AM »
Assist your Magnaflow first to get the clearance.  1 thing at a time.  Then go from there.  Does the driver side lock with the e-brake on and in nuetral?  Shouldn't be any movement at all.

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2009, 07:39:22 AM »
Assist your Magnaflow first to get the clearance.  1 thing at a time.  Then go from there.  Does the driver side lock with the e-brake on and in nuetral?  Shouldn't be any movement at all.

The driver side wheel never fully locks-there's the movement I mentioned, and it's not difficult either, moves forward and back a short distance, feels like it hits a stop, should have taken a movie.
All I got accomplished last night was exploratory.
Since I don't own a lift, wrenching on the exhaust to move it is beyond what I can do at home. Removing the Pro Beam, that I will do if necessary for the short term, in fact, I'm pulling it off this morning before I head out to beat on the car for a few miles to heat up the diff.

 Gotta understand I'm working with a 2 hour window or so after work, before dark, so what I can get done is limited.  I would suspect that what is happening to my car is not unique, and one, two, or ??? will encounter it once you put some real miles on the drivetrain and suspension.


'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 08:03:59 AM »
I don't have a lift either, I dropped the exhaust and slid it back hit with a hammer and hung it back up. 

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2009, 10:39:00 AM »
Kathy tried to post and couldn't, but as I said before, the exhaust is lashed up tight to the PB, there is no rattle emanating from there. After lashing it up, there was no change to the noise level, frequency, or when I could make it happen.

I'm off to the dealer, fairly positive it's either in the axle on that side, or the brake itself on that wheel. Entirely too much play with both the e brake and the foot brake applied.
'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline Aspenrose

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2009, 01:33:55 PM »
Solution has been found, we were all off base.

Tech & I went out, I drove, and he wasn't hearing it. Switched, and first bump, he let out a holy sh!t. Back to the shop, he fully expect to find the lug nuts undertorqued on that wheel. Wasn't the case, so off with the wheel, and he quickly had the answer. The center raised portion of the hub that rides in the center collar of the wheel was so tight that effectively the wheel  was not actually resting against the hub around the studs, which allowed the brake disc to clang and bang about. It was the only wheel with the issue, so just slightly out of specs, and  explains  why the noise would go away for a long while, then be back with a vengence-soon after  that wheel went back to the rear, at tire rotation time!

He ground off a miniscule bit all the way around the lip of the collar on the wheel, it's as quiet as the day it was born, and I  can reinstall the hitch, unlash the exhaust from the PB, and  resume driving it like I stole it...

Oh, and the cost to kill off Chitty Chitty Bang Bang for good? $0.
'06 NA -- Vin #6384 -- 106.5k miles
'08 GXP -- Vin #24073 --44k miles

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2009, 02:48:00 PM »
Nice to hear Kenny is back from the Doc at 100%

Offline 1KULSOL

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2009, 06:00:15 PM »
Solution has been found, we were all off base.

Tech & I went out, I drove, and he wasn't hearing it. Switched, and first bump, he let out a holy sh!t. Back to the shop, he fully expect to find the lug nuts undertorqued on that wheel. Wasn't the case, so off with the wheel, and he quickly had the answer. The center raised portion of the hub that rides in the center collar of the wheel was so tight that effectively the wheel  was not actually resting against the hub around the studs, which allowed the brake disc to clang and bang about. It was the only wheel with the issue, so just slightly out of specs, and  explains  why the noise would go away for a long while, then be back with a vengence-soon after  that wheel went back to the rear, at tire rotation time!

He ground off a miniscule bit all the way around the lip of the collar on the wheel, it's as quiet as the day it was born, and I  can reinstall the hitch, unlash the exhaust from the PB, and  resume driving it like I stole it...

Oh, and the cost to kill off Chitty Chitty Bang Bang for good? $0.

Great News AR ... and best of all --- $0 -----

Offline Derf

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2009, 06:14:20 PM »
Priceless  :yay: :thumbs:

Offline Critterman

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2009, 06:19:53 PM »
Great new AR, glad it is fixed
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension
Lambo Doors

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

Offline Chemist

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2009, 06:38:17 PM »
Great news, AR!
I'd rather be driving! :D

Offline RevmanII

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2009, 06:34:46 PM »
Nothing better than a simple, $0 fix  :cheers:

Offline OSUCherokee

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2014, 12:52:10 PM »
Bringing back an old post. I'll have to give this solution a look tonight. I am experiencing a similar problem on my car. The noise started after installing the new rotors, pads, SS brake lines, long tube headers and HF cat. I swear it must be the headers/cat banging, but can't seem to replicate the sound when i lift the car and yank around on the pipes. They all seem tight with enough room to not hit. The noise gets worse with a passenger, and only seems to do it when going over jittery bumps. Anyone have any ideas?  I was thinking tonight I'll try wrapping the pipe around the cat to see if that fixes it, and also checking to see if the hubs are good.

Offline OSUCherokee

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Re: Diagnosing a Metal-Metal clang/clunk/bang Symphony :RESOLVED
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2014, 04:10:44 PM »
I think I may have figured out the noise, but I'll need to use my sawzall to test out my theory. I am thinking that when I cut the exhaust pipe to fit the new cat and headers; the pipes were too close together. I had to really maneauver them to get them to go together so I could use the clamp/wrap. I believe the two pipes are hitting each other causing the noise. So, we'll see!

 

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