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Author Topic: Stock RSA's aren't bad...  (Read 11964 times)

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Offline sky hi

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Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« on: October 29, 2009, 11:02:30 PM »
THEY ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! These tires almost cost me my car. I have never experienced such total loss of traction without warning in all my years of driving. Granted, I am supercharged and putting down considerably more torque and power than stock. Here's what happened...

Drove casually on to an interstate on ramp, low RPM in third gear. A car came up behind me quickly and too close. As I was almost at the end of the gradual turn, I floored it and started accelerating hard. As the RPM's rose, the rear end drifted out a little as the wheels started to spin. Not a big deal as I've experienced this before. As the drift was holding and everything felt controlled, I kept accelerating. I admit, it was kinda fun. Suddenly, the rear end began to drift out more. I lifted off the gas and counter steered, keeping the front wheels pointed in the direction of travel. These tires felt like they were on ice. The car did not come back and continued around. I counter steered until I hit the limits, I was now sliding sideways, headed directly toward a guard rail and totally out of control. I cranked the front wheels hard in the opposite direction, and this caused the car to go into a 360 degree spin. I felt like I was living that country song "Jesus take the wheel". I missed the guard rail by a couple of feet and continued spinning around down the ramp and ended up two lanes into the interstate. I really don't know how many spins I made, it was at least two. Luckily, there was almost no traffic and I did not come close to any cars. The violent spinout caused the engine to stall. It restarted and I got the heck out of there in a huge cloud of tire smoke. :brnout:

I could not believe what had just happened. I know I was extremely lucky. I stopped, looked the car over and could not find any damage. I went back to look at the skid marks (a while later). The pavement was clean and dry. Temperature was cool, around 45F. I checked my tire pressures and they were 29 psi. The sidewalls had not rolled over.

I knew these stock tires were not the best, but most of my driving is touring around so I was not unhappy with them. After this incident I am on this forum reading tire reviews and can guarantee the RSA's will be gone soon. As I stated earlier, it was truly shocking how these tires just went away without any real warning. I didn't expect them to break loose from smooth acceleration in 3rd gear and I couldn't believe it didn't correct when I let off the gas.
2007 Sky, Silver Pearl
DDM Stage II Supercharger, ported with oversize K&N
Heated Seats
Redline Dual Exhaust
DDM Probeam and Backbone
Conti Extreme DWS
Redline headlights
Clear Bra
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Offline Buzzardt

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 11:18:26 PM »
Reckless Driving is not the tires fault.

Offline snaponbob

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 11:49:59 PM »
Reckless may be a bit harsh, but over exuberant might be closer!!! You had the unfortunate experience of power oversteer followed by terminal drop throttle oversteer. The ass was hung out, and when you dumped the throttle, engine braking planted the front while loosening up the rear even further. The loss of control had already happened, and that made it worse. Better tires would just have raised the speed threshold, but the results would have been the same, but just at a higher velocity followed by a much closer look at the guard rail !!!

"Hey Doc, it hurts when I do THIS."

"Then don't DO that!!!"
Bob Buxbaum
snaponbob AT comcast DOT net
2007 Redline, Revalved Konis, Crazy alignment
FE3 front and Z0K rear bars, owner installed pwr lock buttons
catless downpipe, SP custom exhaustWester's tune
racing springs and adjustable perches
DDM ProBeam & Tower brace, CCW 18x11 wheels for racing

Offline DrJones

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 06:01:45 AM »
Yep this sounds like a case of a Lesson Learned.
We've all done stuff we regret. Luckily you're case ended without damage.

My lesson learned experiences involved being a teenager and play-driving in the snow. No major damage just ripping fog lights off the front of the car with a pile of snow :)
2007 - GXP - White
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lil goat

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 07:49:23 AM »
Sounds like you need a few added mods as well as some new tires, there is a lot you can do to improve the handling of the car especially if you have added power, I alwayd felt the NA was perfect with the stock power, add a bit and they get loose real fast. The GXP has a lot of added stuff to help handle the power that was added. Critterman would be the man to speak to about what he did to his S/C NA.

Offline Critterman

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 09:57:24 AM »
I managed the RSA's until I went stage III, you have to know when to back out of the throttle and never dump it.  As the SC winds up you are putting more and more torque to the wheels, going around a turn can cause those wheels to start to lose grip, it is at that point you have to ease out of the throutle a bit to give them a chance to hold onto the pavement.  You never want to let of the gas completely because that takes the weight transfer off the rear wheels and transfers it to the front resulting in a spin cycle ride. Mashing the gas is always more fun and adventure, rolling into the throttle give you more control.

Now what to do :

Learn the limits of the car with the new power
Upgrade the tires
Backbone and probeam to stiffen the car for better control.

That will give you a start.  And listen to guys like Snapon, Ben, Larry, and Dr. J, that race all the time, they know of what they speak.
GONE: (but not forgotten) 2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

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Offline Kelu

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 10:25:21 AM »
[...] As the RPM's rose, the rear end drifted out a little as the wheels started to spin. [...] As the drift was holding and everything felt controlled, I kept accelerating. I admit, it was kinda fun. Suddenly, the rear end began to drift out more.
[...]it was truly shocking how these tires just went away without any real warning. I didn't expect them to break loose from smooth acceleration in 3rd gear and I couldn't believe it didn't correct when I let off the gas.
Drifting at high rpms at 3rd gear means pretty high speed, you shouldn't be doing that in the streets if you didn't practiced it a lot before.
My  :2c:

Thank god this ended this like this, when I'm doing things like out of ordinary in the streets first thougth which I'm thinking is "did I did this before?" most of the time the answer is "no" and I'm backing off and cooldown.
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
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Ben L

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 01:30:58 PM »
Personally, I do not like to break traction in turns on the street.  The risks of failure to get the car back on line are too great. 

Offline amo

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 01:43:49 PM »
With my RSA's in the rain I drive like I am "Driving Miss Dasiy," they are like you said horrible tires.  I have had too many times with the tires to drive like a maniac in even dry weather.  I can't wait until March/April of next year when I get tires to go on my new rims.  No more RSAs for me at that time.

Offline smartin

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 03:00:41 PM »
56K on my RSAs but I am a very careful driver.

lil goat

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 03:21:57 PM »
WHAT! not when you follow me you aren't!

Offline GXPinKC

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 04:44:36 PM »
I have 14,776 miles on "Miss Red Eagle" and the original Eagle F1's will be 3 years old on December 27Th.  I have been happy with them for the most part.  After my accident with the 1995 Firebird Formula I do not take chances when driving on the highway.  I know when snaponbob drove "Miss Red Eagle"hewas impressed with her power and traction in his short stint.  When I drove his 2007 Redline, I could feel a difference in his traction as it was more glued to the road.  I believe Bob has upgraded tires.  I did hit it on the very secluded spot we chose to do our short trial runs.  I was amazed at his power, and on the way home mentioned to my wife that if I had Bob's Red Line, it would be just to much temptation, and I might end up 8 feet down!

Code 1100, Order#KCPDVV 04-28-2006, Delivery: 12-27-2006 

2007 Aggressive GXP, 5-speed, Ebony Leather seats w red accent stitching, Chrome Wheels, Air, 6-Disc, Monsoon, Sport Metallic Pedals & Premium Headliner.

MSRP $30,300 less $1,000 GMMC credit.  Deal: $28,180. ($2,120 under MSRP).


DDM Race Backbone, Probeam, & Red Cross Bay Brace
JPM Leather Center Console
Windrestrictor
MRZ Performance Billet Caps
Beach Party FBC
Solo Mach Exhaust

Offline LiquidPT

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 05:03:20 PM »
I have 14,776 miles on "Miss Red Eagle" and the original Eagle F1's will be 3 years old on December 27Th.  I have been happy with them for the most part.  After my accident with the 1995 Firebird Formula I do not take chances when driving on the highway.  I know when snaponbob drove "Miss Red Eagle"hewas impressed with her power and traction in his short stint.  When I drove his 2007 Redline, I could feel a difference in his traction as it was more glued to the road.  I believe Bob has upgraded tires.  I did hit it on the very secluded spot we chose to do our short trial runs.  I was amazed at his power, and on the way home mentioned to my wife that if I had Bob's Red Line, it would be just to much temptation, and I might end up 8 feet down!



Let's be clear. The F1s that come on the GXP are not the same tire as the RSAs that come on the N/A. The F1 is a much better tire. Having said that, I don't like em and will be replacing them in the spring. I'm having troubles keeping traction on wet roads with the F1s.

Yes, the RSAs are that much worse.
LiquidPT aka Matt
driving Black Sun
2009 Mysterious GXP Coupe #100

Offline sky hi

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 05:36:20 PM »
I should clarify things a little. When the car started to drift, the rear kicked out maybe a foot. The tires weren't breaking loose wildly and smoking like you see when the pros "DRIFT".  This lasted maybe 3 seconds. When the rear really started breaking loose, I didn't dump the throttle all at once, I backed off it gradually so the tires could catch traction and correct. I've driven plenty on ice and snow and know the drill. I made no sudden moves until I was on the steering stops, and cranked it in the other direction.

There was no sudden weight transfer when I let off the gas. The tires simply had no traction. During this event, I never hit redline. The fastest I was going was maybe 65MPH. Not that unreasonable for accelerating onto an interstate on ramp.  I really wasn't trying to raise hell, I was just accelerating from a low RPM. The turn was very gradual, that's the only reason I didn't kiss the outside guardrail during the spin. My close encounter was with the inside guardrail.

I plan to call DDM for a Backbone and ProBeam upgrade. Meanwhile, I'll be driving miss daisy also. Seriously these tires are dangerous if you have more than stock power.

2007 Sky, Silver Pearl
DDM Stage II Supercharger, ported with oversize K&N
Heated Seats
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Offline GXPinKC

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2009, 05:48:01 PM »
The point I was trying to make sky hi is that the Eagle 1's might be just the ticket for your NA if the size is appropriate.  It would be an upgrade for sure performance wise!
Code 1100, Order#KCPDVV 04-28-2006, Delivery: 12-27-2006 

2007 Aggressive GXP, 5-speed, Ebony Leather seats w red accent stitching, Chrome Wheels, Air, 6-Disc, Monsoon, Sport Metallic Pedals & Premium Headliner.

MSRP $30,300 less $1,000 GMMC credit.  Deal: $28,180. ($2,120 under MSRP).


DDM Race Backbone, Probeam, & Red Cross Bay Brace
JPM Leather Center Console
Windrestrictor
MRZ Performance Billet Caps
Beach Party FBC
Solo Mach Exhaust

Offline LiquidPT

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 05:57:25 PM »
The point I was trying to make sky hi is that the Eagle 1's might be just the ticket for your NA if the size is appropriate.  It would be an upgrade for sure performance wise!

You can do A LOT better for the money (or near to it)
LiquidPT aka Matt
driving Black Sun
2009 Mysterious GXP Coupe #100

Ben L

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 06:02:22 PM »
 :agree:

As long as you are swapping, why not?

Offline LiquidPT

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2009, 06:07:32 PM »
You can do A LOT better for the money (or near to it)

That said, I'll have a set of used F1s (with only 3000 miles or so on them) for sale as soon as I put my winter wheels on.
LiquidPT aka Matt
driving Black Sun
2009 Mysterious GXP Coupe #100

Offline snaponbob

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2009, 08:13:50 PM »
I should clarify things a little. When the car started to drift, the rear kicked out maybe a foot. The tires weren't breaking loose wildly and smoking like you see when the pros "DRIFT".  This lasted maybe 3 seconds. When the rear really started breaking loose, I didn't dump the throttle all at once, I backed off it gradually so the tires could catch traction and correct. I've driven plenty on ice and snow and know the drill. I made no sudden moves until I was on the steering stops, and cranked it in the other direction.

There was no sudden weight transfer when I let off the gas. The tires simply had no traction. During this event, I never hit redline. The fastest I was going was maybe 65MPH. Not that unreasonable for accelerating onto an interstate on ramp.  I really wasn't trying to raise hell, I was just accelerating from a low RPM. The turn was very gradual, that's the only reason I didn't kiss the outside guardrail during the spin. My close encounter was with the inside guardrail.

I plan to call DDM for a Backbone and ProBeam upgrade. Meanwhile, I'll be driving miss daisy also. Seriously these tires are dangerous if you have more than stock power.



If you are driving a 2.4 and have not spent money on the suspension yet, you probably should. The Backbone will firm up the BODY, while the Probeam will tie the rear suspensions together. I will tell you RIGHT NOW that a) the Probeam is a great piece, and b) will probably loosen up the rear some more but make it more predictable. Alignment, shocks, springs, bars, tires and all that will really be beneficial in taming the power.And it will make the car more enjoyable for not a lot of money.

p.s. F1's for FREE are not worth the money !!!! If somebody GAVE me a set when I replace my originals, I wouldn't mount them up !!!!!
Bob Buxbaum
snaponbob AT comcast DOT net
2007 Redline, Revalved Konis, Crazy alignment
FE3 front and Z0K rear bars, owner installed pwr lock buttons
catless downpipe, SP custom exhaustWester's tune
racing springs and adjustable perches
DDM ProBeam & Tower brace, CCW 18x11 wheels for racing

Offline Uranium-238

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2009, 11:34:09 PM »
If I were given a set of F1's, I'd bolt them on the car.

Then promptly find a parking lot or deserted road and proceed to burn said tires down. That's got to be the only thing those "tires" are good for.
2005 Chevy Silverado Z71 Crew Cab, LM7 4L60E (What I traded my Kappa for. I regret nothing.)
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Offline jlab8

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2009, 09:08:20 PM »
Driver error doesn't mean the tires are unsafe.

Offline snaponbob

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2009, 10:27:10 PM »
Driver error doesn't mean the tires are unsafe.

Would you run them on your Mallet?
Bob Buxbaum
snaponbob AT comcast DOT net
2007 Redline, Revalved Konis, Crazy alignment
FE3 front and Z0K rear bars, owner installed pwr lock buttons
catless downpipe, SP custom exhaustWester's tune
racing springs and adjustable perches
DDM ProBeam & Tower brace, CCW 18x11 wheels for racing

Offline Critterman

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2009, 06:41:37 PM »
If you are driving a 2.4 and have not spent money on the suspension yet, you probably should. The Backbone will firm up the BODY, while the Probeam will tie the rear suspensions together. I will tell you RIGHT NOW that a) the Probeam is a great piece, and b) will probably loosen up the rear some more but make it more predictable. Alignment, shocks, springs, bars, tires and all that will really be beneficial in taming the power.And it will make the car more enjoyable for not a lot of money.

p.s. F1's for FREE are not worth the money !!!! If somebody GAVE me a set when I replace my originals, I wouldn't mount them up !!!!!

And even with all that you can make the car dance :) but like Bob says it is more predictable.
GONE: (but not forgotten) 2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

Offline snaponbob

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2009, 07:19:18 PM »
One thing to remember is that this is a fairly short wheelbase vehicle with all that is beneficial AND detrimental. One of the pitfalls is that as power increases everything that happens is more "sudden". There is a reason that Corvettes have grown in wheelbase to what is now 106" for a C6, up from 104.5" on the C5. Some will say this was done to satisfy need for interior space and crash worthiness. Maybe so. But as power, and thus speed potential increases, inline stability becomes an issue and the easiest way to enhance stability is to stretch the wheelbase. If we had a 50/50 weight balance the car would be more stable, but we don't. Oh, and RSA suck and so do the F1's.  :poke:
Bob Buxbaum
snaponbob AT comcast DOT net
2007 Redline, Revalved Konis, Crazy alignment
FE3 front and Z0K rear bars, owner installed pwr lock buttons
catless downpipe, SP custom exhaustWester's tune
racing springs and adjustable perches
DDM ProBeam & Tower brace, CCW 18x11 wheels for racing

Offline Treeman

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Re: Stock RSA's aren't bad...
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2009, 07:38:40 PM »
while the Probeam will tie the rear suspensions together.

So, I realize this may be heresy among this crowd, but let me question this.  Having an independent suspension is supposed to be a plus.  Why do we want to tie the suspensions together.

I am a late comer to this and so, unlike most of you who got the probeam first or at the same time as a backbone, I got my backbone first.  I had all intentions of following the recommendations and getting the probeam, but I am now at the stage of asking why.  I believe the backbone stiffened things up and solved the problem.  My rear end (or my car's that is!) is predictable and controllable.  I do not want to loosen it up.  I do not believe the understeer on the car is as outrageous as some think unless I am overcooking things to begin with (which is when understeer is nice to have to avoid these unpleasant spins) or unless I am trying to do too much at once with the same end of the car - that is, putting off the braking until I am trying to do that and turn at the same time.  The mantra is brake, turn, accelerate.  When I do that, the car is well balanced and very controllable with the throttle.  So why would I want to give up the independence of the rear suspensions?
2009 Aggressive GXP
DDM Race Backbone, ProBeam, Coil Cover, Alignment, and Oil Catch Can
Solo Mach Shorty Exhaust
GMPP Tune
LatinVenom Front Brace
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