Topic: LNF R&D by ZZP

[Kelu]

Browsing CobaltSS.net forum I read a very interesting post about test of LNF engine on Cobalt SS/TC and I thought I might repost it here because of the value of information posted. I know some are reading that forum but also noticed many of Kappa owner are not using it and might be useful especially for those going to push their 2.0T engine.

Full post: http://cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=200854

Matt M from ZZP Performace:
As many of you know, ZZPerformance has been pushing to find the limits of the LNF. I installed a prototype ZZP turbo upgrade last spring, but quickly maxed the fuel system. As others had found, 400whp is pretty much the limit. I decided to go back to the stock turbo until we had a fix for the fuel system. We ported the cylinder head, which significantly increased HP at the same boost level. Unfortunately, the max boost we could push from the stock turbo decreased so much that we saw very little HP gain overall. Next, we set a goal to hit 11s on the stock turbo. Within a couple months, I hit an 11.99 at US131 Motorsports Park in Martin, MI. We met our goal, but the stock turbo was maxed. This setup put down 338whp. One day while taking voltage readings from the fuel pressure sensor, an idea popped into my head. I decided to alter the signal being sent to the ECM to trick the ECM into raising the fuel pressure. We put together a simple device to decrease the voltage and the car ran very rich. We decided to make a dyno pull. The result was promising- the WOT air fuel had dropped from mid 12s all the way to high 9s. We backed off the voltage drop a bit and then tuned in the fueling. This mod gave us less than 10whp on the stock turbo, with a peak of 345whp(sae), but we knew it would be much more valuable on turbo swap cars.

The next step was to install the latest prototype ZZP turbo swap. This kit included a Bullseye/Borg Warner S256 extended tip turbo. With the fuel pressure mod in place and now able to take advantage of the ported cylinder head, we quickly surpassed 500whp. On 110 octane, and fuel pressure increased to more than 3400psi, I made a best pull of 530whp sae at 27psi. At 23 psi, this setup was good for 11.40s at nearly 127mph in the 1/4. However, I felt that a smaller turbo may be better suited for daily drivers while still offering 450whp potential. We decided to test out the S252 extended tip turbo and set it up with a smaller exhaust wheel for quick response. We also decided that it would be best to re-install the stock cylinder head to more accurately set up a mail order tune for our turbo swap kit. While the motor was apart, we took the next step to thoroughly examine the internals.

This is what we found-
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All four connecting rods were bent. Ouch. We are currently working with two top name connecting rod manufacturers on a cost effective solution. We are also planning to sell forged pistons, likely from JE. While my motor is apart waiting on upgraded rods and pistons, we installed the stock shortblock from one of our parts cars as well as the original stock cylinder head.

Next, I contacted Vince from Trifecta about teaming up on our ECM file for our turbo swap kits. He agreed and set up a base file for us with adjustments made to the fuel pressure tables. We currently have the max fuel pressure set at 2800psi. On paper, this showed potential for approximately 60whp gains over stock fuel pressure. This would allow us to reach our goal of 450whp on the S252et turbo.

Initial dyno testing has been successful. I started out with 110 octane for a safety margin while experimenting. After a few pulls, I was able to put down 457whp at 23psi. This pull pushed the limits of the fuel system once again. After the tune was complete, I drained the gas and switched over to 93 octane. Unfortunately, it is undesireable winter blend 93. After a handful of pulls, the best run was 425whp at 22psi. I believe we should be able to achieve 435-440whp once we get the cam tables dialed in and add a little more boost. These are uncorrected dyno numbers. While we normally post corrected numbers, actual HP numbers are more relevant when discussing fuel system limitations.

Here are the dyno charts-
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I still have to work on the ECM boost control. A slight boost fade will allow more power through the midrange without maxing out the fuel system in the higher RPMs. While testing multiple boost levels at multiple RPMs, I pushed boost into the mid 30s at 3700 RPM. This resulted in a torque reading of over 500 ft lbs!  Furthermore, at 29psi, this setup surpassed 400whp at less then 5000 RPM.

Thanks for reading this long post. I will have more updates and pics soon…


Later posting

Originally Posted by CudaJoe
Thats not necessarily true... THese rods might have bent at 425hp. I means its not like ZZP checked the rods before and after this run. so those rods could have been bent at any of the other hp bands.

I made at least 75 dyno pulls at 450+whp, and probably 50 of those were at close to or more than 500whp. I doubt they were bent at 425, but I suppose it's possible. Another thing to consider is that I was revving to 8000 RPM. Shifting at 7200 would reduce the stress on the rods somewhat.

[LatinVenom]

What I found very interesting about this post is the 11.99 1/4 time with the stock turbo and the car producing 338WHP or about 405 BHP.
Granted the heads were ported but with the Upgraded wheel instead of the ported head I am wondering how close to this WHP the LNF can get.
I know with my NEW DDM TUNE my car is much faster, but have not had a chance to Dyno this new tune.

[Kelu]

Some things which might be helpful to consider ZZP facts:
- Cobalt puts more horses to the ground compared to a Kappa
- ZZP uses Mustang Dyno and generally SAE (they generally specify) and generally this kind of dyno shows low numbers

LatinVenom: I wouldn't go and make a calculation of BHP from their WFHP
They used drag radials for that 11.99 with stock turbo, also I asked them if they lighter the car and they confirmed they didn't, that is a great result:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kHWvKofkxk

I saw many dyno results (generally Dynojet) from Cobalt and they reach around 320-340 whp with only tune, exhaust, intake and some IC pipes. If I'm not wrong, there was a guy with an upgraded wheel and was close to 340-350whp. It's hard to compare the numbers between a Kappa and Cobalt. I was looking for ET times from normal users and they are pretty much like us, low 13s or very few cases with high 12s with upgraded tires, Kappa launches better but cobalt have better speed traps.

[kennysabarese]

These guys seem to be really pushing the engine!

Looking forward to what they find!

Putting money aside for something.

[2kwk4u]

ZZP has been around for quite some time.  Those guys REALLY know their stuff.  I remember them from my days modding Grand Prix GTPs.  Their quality is just shy of "second to none," but their prices are unbeatable, and they do their homework before they release anything.

[kennysabarese]

Good thing I am really broke right now. By the time I save up, maybe they'll have something proven

[davytudope]

i had their header and pullys on my ion redline.  they make great parts.

[LatinVenom]

Kelu:
My calculations do not use the tires, so the 405 BHP is about what a 338 RWHP Kappa would produce.
If this is a Cobalt then the calculations would be different, since it is a FWD car with a lot less drivetrain loss.

[Lucy'sDaddy]

Matt M from ZZP Performace:

The next step was to install the latest prototype ZZP turbo swap. This kit included a Bullseye/Borg Warner S256 extended tip turbo. With the fuel pressure mod in place and now able to take advantage of the ported cylinder head, we quickly surpassed 500whp. On 110 octane, and fuel pressure increased to more than 3400psi, I made a best pull of 530whp sae at 27psi.

Anyone else notice the 530 whp

I've been dealing with these guys a long time with my Monte Carlo Intimidator SS, with it's L67 3.8 S/C'd engine. They have a FWD GP running in the 8's now. They'd like to get their hands on our Solstice, but I just don't have the cash right now. Zoomer and the other guys at ZZPerformance KNOW how to make SERIOUS power, and they've been doing it for a LONG time. I've seen their twin charged Cobalt (turbo + S/C), and their 8 second GP. Good stuff! AND they make almost everything in house.

https://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_ion/index.php

[kennysabarese]

Their stuff is usually very affordable too!