Topic: Piston Failure, Engine up in smoke

[LatinVenom]

The GM sponsor drift car was running well over 300 BHP with ALL OEM engine parts.
I do not remember seen or hearing that car having any pistons or engine problem through out the drift campaign.
I know Graywolf you want for avery one to be in the know, thanks for that.

[Filipp]

Just add it to another list of failed engines. Mine was rebuilt since cylinder #1 lost compression. All I had was the GMPP + GMPP CAI. Another one in SoCal ended up receiving a brand new engine since his had similar problems and he was running GMPP/Wester's. So it seems engine problems can happen to anyone with a tune.

[kennysabarese]

The GM sponsor drift car was running well over 300 BHP with ALL OEM engine parts.
I do not remember seen or hearing that car having any pistons or engine problem through out the drift campaign.
I know Graywolf you want for avery one to be in the know, thanks for that.

Is this the car you are referring to LV?

http://www.gmtunersource.com/index.php/gmracing/drifting/alialjibouri

Production 2.0L ECOtec LNF turbocharged with race-only calibration
330 hp @ 4500-6000rpm
425 lb-ft @ 3600rpm
7000rpm rev limit

(shot out to Norms Fiberglass on there too!)

[snaponbob]

Is this the car you are referring to LV?

Production 2.0L ECOtec LNF turbocharged with race-only calibration
330 hp @ 4500-6000rpm
425 lb-ft @ 3600rpm
7000rpm rev limit

(shot out to Norms Fiberglass on there too!)

Oh sure. When PIGS fly.     Maybe the VALVE COVER was unmodified.

[perris]

you know,finding out our pistons are only good to 300 horesepower is making me think twice about a tune, even the gm tune is right on the edge of the duty expectations, I am not liking this at all

[rich71]

there are alot of lnfs with agressive tunes that haven't gone boom. Look at all the cobalts hhrss and kappas. you would think with the high boost levels trifecta is constantly pushing, there would be more faliures by now. and there are alot of people on our forums that are pushing alot of power...one example is sky888's car is running big power with the bigger turbo, tune, and methanol injection, cryo sprayer, etc with no falures.........................yet................i still think it has something to do with the bsr tune of the gmpp tune..... to be honest, we may have come to the end of the yellow brick road where we have been beating on our cars long enough to get REAL world durability results at this point.

[LatinVenom]

Is this the car you are referring to LV?

http://www.gmtunersource.com/index.php/gmracing/drifting/alialjibouri

Production 2.0L ECOtec LNF turbocharged with race-only calibration
330 hp @ 4500-6000rpm
425 lb-ft @ 3600rpm
7000rpm rev limit

(shot out to Norms Fiberglass on there too!)

Yes, it is.
I also do not understand why Bob is saying BS. The car had a GM tune done for it, everything else in the motor was OEM.
I saw it in person in West Palm Beach. The one modification was the removal of the front of the intake.
It ran with the OEM IC for a number of events and then they switch to the Hahn IC.

[snaponbob]

Yes, it is.
I also do not understand why Bob is saying BS. The car had a GM tune done for it, everything else in the motor was OEM.
I saw it in person in West Palm Beach. The one modification was the removal of the front of the intake.
It ran with the OEM IC for a number of events and then they switch to the Hahn IC.

Because there is something that does not square up with an otherwise "stock" engine producing well over what ANYBODY has produced. And this assuming crank HP, not wheel HP. This is also assuming the claim of OEM LNF engine is just that. If so, the rev range for the claimed power outputs is odd as well. What it REALLY looks like is an LNF OEM engine ONLY with a modified or replaced turbo. Stock turbos peak at about 3000-3200 rpm, whereas modified and bigger turbos tend to peak around 3600-3800 rpm. The "" was NOT directed at any members of this site, but at the claims made by somebody else. The number speak for themselves, and they say that this MORE than an OEM LNF package. BTW, I have not missed the cat delete, but that will not do what is claimed with just a tune. I am betting on an LNF long block assembly running 1) a catless downpipe, 2) bigger IC and pipes, 3) bigger turbo, and 4) probably race fuel (especially if these are wheel output claims). 

[perris]

Because there is something that does not square up with an otherwise "stock" engine producing well over what ANYBODY has produced. And this assuming crank HP, not wheel HP. This is also assuming the claim of OEM LNF engine is just that. If so, the rev range for the claimed power outputs is odd as well. What it REALLY looks like is an LNF OEM engine ONLY with a modified or replaced turbo. Stock turbos peak at about 3000-3200 rpm, whereas modified and bigger turbos tend to peak around 3600-3800 rpm. The "" was NOT directed at any members of this site, but at the claims made by somebody else. The number speak for themselves, and they say that this MORE than an OEM LNF package. BTW, I have not missed the cat delete, but that will not do what is claimed with just a tune. I am betting on an LNF long block assembly running 1) a catless downpipe, 2) bigger IC and pipes, 3) bigger turbo, and 4) probably race fuel (especially if these are wheel output claims).  

I believe I remember having a forum conversation with the driver but it might have been another

anyway, he said the car was entirely undriveable for street, it was all or nothing, he also said the turbo was operating well past it's duty perameters

the original turbo blew and they took one off of a solstice in the lot if this is the same tuen I remember talking about

he won that race btw

[snaponbob]

I believe I remember having a forum conversation with the driver but it might have been another

anyway, he said the car was entirely undriveable for street, it was all or nothing, he also said the turbo was operating well past it's duty perameters

the original turbo blew and they took one off of a solstice in the lot if this is the same tuen I remember talking about

he won that race btw

If nothing else is known about the turbo (stock) is that it just does not do any meaningful "work" past about 52-5300 rpm. The claim of 330 hp from 3500-6000 does NOT say what the PEAK hp is. TORQUE curves can be computer controlled to fairly "flat", but a flat HORSEPOWER curve is something I would really like to see. Again, something is amiss !!!! It's just sort of chalk screeching on a chalkboard.

[Graywolf]

Well ,just recieved new Darton cylinder sleeves for the ecotec. Much better cooling and thicker sleeves, same type used on ecotec 1400hp Drag engine.  Also got in neutral balance shaft set from Gm Racing and Diamond Racing pistons designed for the lsj ecotec Will increase compression from 9.2 to1  to 9.5 to 1  Lets have some imput Gray Wolf

[LatinVenom]

I can answer a few of the questions.
It did have catless down pipe and also was using more than 93 octane if I remember correctly.
The IC was change much later, and the IC pipes were NEVER changed.
When I saw the car in action in West Palm Beach it had the stock IC and stock turbo.

[AdamVIP]

Well ,just recieved new Darton cylinder sleeves for the ecotec. Much better cooling and thicker sleeves, same type used on ecotec 1400hp Drag engine.  Also got in neutral balance shaft set from Gm Racing and Diamond Racing pistons designed for the lsj ecotec Will increase compression from 9.2 to1  to 9.5 to 1  Lets have some imput Gray Wolf

I dont think you want to put LSJ pistons into an LNF.  The LNF pistons have a bowl at the top of the piston to work with the DI distribution.  LSJ pistons wont have that and it could lead to bad news.  Wiseco makes LNF pistons.  You might want to check those out.

[Graywolf]

I agree with all of the above.  Many of our members are running 350 to 450 hp without problems. I wouldn't worry about it.  Stuff happens.  Besides learning more on this subject is great !  I am not a engine expert and can only pass on what I have learned from the Gm build book and my current build.  Your engine /trans /clutch/diff is only as strong as your weakest link -fact.  Although this build will cost 10,000.00 plus I will only gain about 20 to 45 hp Bigger valves race porting and slightly higher compression. However, in a year or so I will slap on a bigger turbo,better fly wheel and clutch.  The diff should also be changed to the sts-v. Getting smarter by the day,Thanks for everyones input and support! Gray Wolf P.S. I plan to kick butt next year in time attack/hi speed autox. Have a highly modified vette and camaro in my way from taking 1st place running in A modified.

[Dirkdaddy]

FYI, you don't HAVE to remove transmission to remove the engine, but I recommend it.  I've done it both ways on Auto car, and the PITA is the flex plate bolts under the starter and intake, etc, as well as a few of the bell-housing bolts.  You need to be creative with the engine hoist chain attachments to make sure you don't pull on something that bends or breaks. 

I'm wondering, are you replacing all the cylinder liners?  Sounds like you'd have to if you're going with different bore.  Might as well.  I'd get those high end pistons while you're at it, its only money and there's only 4 of them... : ~)

Sorry to hear of problems, but like others have said I'd be conservative on tunes as this can get expensive....

[Graywolf]

Dirkdaddy, New engine is running and the block was resleeved. Wiseco pistons/carrillo rods/neutral balancse shafts/billet oil pump gears/custom built ATI damper/heavier spring chain tensioner/head race ported/ferrea valves and springs/jessel billet rocker/solid lifters. Current problem-When I went for HP tune/Dyno run Knock sensor was detuning engine. My valve train is noisy with the solid lifters/however the traction control buttom was not off and I wonder if that was detuning it.

[Dirkdaddy]

Sounds quite impressive! - I have not researched but impressed all that stuff is available for the 2.0.  I guess you're running a bigger turbo and all that to high RPM where you might need solid lifters?  Hydraulic lifters are nice after some early cars and motorcycles I've owned that required regular setting valve lash.

You may be on the right track with the valve noise causing the det sensor.  As you probably know, its likely you can test for that sort of thing, possibly by using scope on the sensor leads and removing the spark plugs, cranking engine as fast as you can with the starter.  Given the computer control of the 2.0, I'd never go w/o the det sensors, its part of the entire system.

[kennysabarese]

Traction control could be a pain on the dyno. make sure you press the button once to remove traction control, then hold the button down for 10 seconds to turn off and ESC completely.

[Craig]

The traction control could be it.  Dyno operators run into cat overtemp a fair bit too.

I have not looked at the LNF sensors, but I have heard of people using spacers to mechanically reduce the sensitivity in order to diagnose things.

I hope you work things out.  Looks like you spared no expense.