Author Topic: Koni Z0K Suspension Testing and Install Process (Read 27733 times)

elff · « **Reply #50 on:** June 13, 2011, 03:20:52 PM »

Thread Resurrection!!

Quote from: Kenny on March 06, 2011, 06:40:50 PM

One thing I noticed is that the shock tops that came with the Koni's (from a kappa owner) had black and the others blue. Anyone know the difference?

Kenny

I actually just figured this out
Blue is Stock Shocks with Stock Springs

Black is from the GM Performance kit
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/Off-Road-Shock-Absorber-Package-17800029-P4229C180.aspx

kennysabarese · « **Reply #51 on:** June 13, 2011, 03:36:41 PM »

Ah interesting. Cool.

elff · « **Reply #52 on:** June 30, 2011, 03:26:03 PM »

Kenny

What are the units of measure for the following

The back springs are meant to be 285, front 211. My results were as follow
Front 204 and 215
Rear 280 and 282

kennysabarese · « **Reply #53 on:** June 30, 2011, 03:42:42 PM »

pounds per inch

http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Spring-and-Wheel-Rates/A_2904/article.html

elff · « **Reply #54 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:00:57 PM »

That's really crazy the Eibach Springs I have are rated at
211 lbs/inch front
191 lbs/inch back

Looking in the attached document, they have the springs listed as the following
FE3
Front (3800N - 30.5 N/mm)
Rear (3900N - 40.0 N/mm)

NF ZOK
Front (3100N - 37.0 N/mm)
Rear (3200N - 50.0 N/mm)

GM SPO Perf Parts
Front (3450N - 37.0 N/mm)
Rear (3350N - 50.0 N/mm)

So all of the Springs from GM are stiffer in the rear, whereas the Eibachs are stiffer in the front??????

To get and apples to apples comparision, what number should I use for the conversion?

kennysabarese · « **Reply #55 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:04:39 PM »

FE3 in english is

F 174.16
R 228.41

~~i don't remember how to do the conversion~~

Google solves all = http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-345481.html

elff · « **Reply #56 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:17:46 PM »

I was looking and couldn't find it.
I did find out some interesting facts. The Spring I have are meant for the 2.4. They no longer make the ones for the redline as listed for the redline.
The funny thing is, the spring rates for the Eibachs for the Solstice are the same as what was for the Redline and mimic the spring rates of the ZOK springs EXACTLY.
So unfortunately, what I am seeing in how the car handles the road right now is that I will not be able to keep these springs.
Bummer.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #57 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:22:26 PM »

Yeah I've always wanted to stick with the springs that GM puts out since I trust that they tested the suspension setup more than any aftermarket company.

elff · « **Reply #58 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:34:25 PM »

No Big Deal
ZOK here I come.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #59 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:35:38 PM »

Not sure how low you want your car to be. But you could put the GM springs you already have on there. I heard it will be a little lower this way.

elff · « **Reply #60 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:37:48 PM »

The gm performance are lower than the zOk?

kennysabarese · « **Reply #61 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:45:53 PM »

I'm under the impression that the GMPP springs and Stock FE3 springs are the same height. And I have no idea how low the Eibach's are.

BUT according to SOB the Koni's spring mounting is lower than the stock mounting. I've never verified this but if it's true you could put your GMPP's onto the Koni's and it would be lower, but not as low as Z0K+Koni.

Critterman · « **Reply #62 on:** June 30, 2011, 05:00:39 PM »

I have HKS, went to the site but they are no longer listed. Mine are 6 kg an 8 kg. I believe the 8's are in the front. The conversion is:

6= 336 lbs
8 = 448 lbs

which are way stiffer than any of those you listed. Elff you drove my car, could you feel the difference?

elff · « **Reply #63 on:** June 30, 2011, 05:01:28 PM »

Your kappa doesn't lean at all

shabby · « **Reply #64 on:** June 30, 2011, 05:32:40 PM »

Quote from: Critterman on June 30, 2011, 05:00:39 PM

I have HKS, went to the site but they are no longer listed. Mine are 6 kg an 8 kg. I believe the 8's are in the front. The conversion is:
6= 336 lbs
8 = 448 lbs

My b&g coilovers also have the same spring rates, doesn't make sense why they're putting heavier springs in the front.
I picked up some eibach 500/550lbs springs and will be putting them in tomorrow.

wspohn · « **Reply #65 on:** June 30, 2011, 06:17:03 PM »

Quote from: Kenny on June 30, 2011, 04:22:26 PM

Yeah I've always wanted to stick with the springs that GM puts out since I trust that they tested the suspension setup more than any aftermarket company.

No, they specced a spring calculated not to offend anyone by being too hard or too soft. You are settling for the happy medium, which is only appropriate if you are happy there.

I run (IIRC) 450 both ends and it works well.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #66 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:08:15 PM »

Not sure if I can agree with you there. The GXP has the highest natural frequency of any production GM car (at the time it was released). It's got a harder ride than the Vette, so I don't think it's a happy medium because it has the least comfort.

I also have the Z0K springs, which are even harder than stock. So I don't think I'm settling for a happy medium.

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #67 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:36:31 PM »

Seeing as the ZOK wasn't available with air conditioning, dumbing down the springs for comfort would be pretty stupid. But then it is GM we're talking about...

snaponbob · « **Reply #68 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:40:26 PM »

GM appears to have developed a spring/bar package that basically "works". Bottom line - rear springs are stiffer than fronts, and front bars are stiffer than rears. I am NOT a suspension engineer, but I HAVE learned some basic stuff that I have shared (in general) here and (in detail) via e-mail/p.m. with forum members. Further, it appears that BG, BC, and KW have computer modeled the Kappas WITHOUT bars, and thus the rates are stiffer in the front. If I were to go 100% trailer car, I just MIGHT go the route of stiffer front springs and NO bars, but even spring rate spread sheet calculators show stiffer rear springs. I am smart enough to know that I am not smart enough, so I follow GM's basic construct. My rear springs are stiffer than the fronts, the front bar is FE3 and rear is GXP/Z0K, and it works great.

snaponbob · « **Reply #69 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:41:14 PM »

Quote from: Uranium-238 on June 30, 2011, 07:36:31 PM

Seeing as the ZOK wasn't available with air conditioning, dumbing down the springs for comfort would be pretty stupid. But then it is GM we're talking about...

The 2.4 was that way, but not the LNF. And that is VERY different.

wspohn · « **Reply #70 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:58:14 PM »

Quote from: Kenny on June 30, 2011, 07:08:15 PM

Not sure if I can agree with you there. The GXP has the highest natural frequency of any production GM car (at the time it was released). It's got a harder ride than the Vette, so I don't think it's a happy medium because it has the least comfort.

I also have the Z0K springs, which are even harder than stock. So I don't think I'm settling for a happy medium.

As Bob said, it depends on what you want out of the car.

The FE3 ZOK springs are probably fine for almost everyone driving on the street. I am used to race cars and prefer double the spring rate even on the street.

If you think springs in the 200 and something range are stiff, you';d hate the 950 lb. springs I run on one of the race cars....(totally different chassis and appropriate for that use on that chassis).

BTW, congratulations on setting the shocks conservatively. I have seen SO many people get new shocks and set them far too hard right off the bat!

elff · « **Reply #71 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:01:25 PM »

Guess I will be the first [And only person] to install Koni shocks on the GM SPO Performance Part Springs.
GJ might try the GM SPO Performance Part Shocks with his Z0K springs to get a comparison.

Good discussion here. Keep it going!!

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #72 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:08:31 PM »

Quick question from somebody who still has a lot to learn...Aren't you somewhat limited by your tires to what springs should run? As in, without stickier tires there's no reason running super stiff springs? Kinda like brakes, you upgrade once your tires are no longer the weakest link. There has to be some point where the springs are too stiff, otherwise we wouldn't be using springs at all and would just weld everything solid.

snaponbob · « **Reply #73 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:08:51 PM »

Okay ...... what are THEY?

snaponbob · « **Reply #74 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:11:13 PM »

Quote from: Uranium-238 on June 30, 2011, 08:08:31 PM

Quick question from somebody who still has a lot to learn...Aren't you somewhat limited by your tires to what springs should run? As in, without stickier tires there's no reason running super stiff springs? Kinda like brakes, you upgrade once your tires are no longer the weakest link. There has to be some point where the springs are too stiff, otherwise we wouldn't be using springs at all and would just weld everything solid.

Depends on the tires. I drive my Sky on the street with Toyo R1Rs and there are really no issues. VERY different that the BadYears which bounced like SuperBalls with the stiff springs !!!!!!!!!! Tires ARE springs.

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Author Topic: Koni Z0K Suspension Testing and Install Process (Read 27733 times)