Author Topic: Alignment Info for Kappas (Read 60814 times)

LatinVenom · « **Reply #75 on:** July 18, 2010, 07:51:59 PM »

Shabby,
Road feed back is pretty much the same however, the car can corner or bank better with the chassis front brace bar.

Graywolf · « **Reply #76 on:** July 18, 2010, 09:27:35 PM »

Agree with guys 100%. If you like performance and going around turns get the aggressive alignment. At 6,000miles I have no abnormal wear.

snaponbob · « **Reply #77 on:** July 19, 2010, 08:07:16 AM »

Quote from: Graywolf on July 18, 2010, 09:27:35 PM

Agree with guys 100%. If you like performance and going around turns get the aggressive alignment. At 6,000miles I have no abnormal wear.

Over 24K miles on the OEM tires with quite a few more thousand to go before getting to the 2/32" wear bars. Over 22K miles have been driven at camber settings of more than 2.5 front and 1.5 rear. Zero toe in and proper inflation is the key.

JimmyBaja · « **Reply #78 on:** July 19, 2010, 08:16:47 AM »

SOB, that's -2.5 & -1.5 (negative camber) yes? Just making sure I'm on the same page before I have it done, hopefully this week. I didn't get a chance to have it done before the autocross this weekend & the front was definately pushing hard.

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #79 on:** July 19, 2010, 08:27:09 AM »

I'm thinking about getting my alignment tweaked as well. Looking for more negative camber up front, and I also would like to mark the toe adjustment points so I can run a little toe out at events, then set it back to zero for the street.

Oh, and camber up front needs to be maxed out right SOB?

snaponbob · « **Reply #80 on:** July 19, 2010, 09:50:12 AM »

Jimmy - yes.

238 - The alignment really needs to be tailored to the type of driving. Solo needs a lot of camber (on a lot of cars with some exceptions being C5 and 6 Vettes) while road courses maybe not so much. On road courses, the less the car leans the less camber should be needed. On Solo courses the movements are much more abrupt and violent, so the tires need more help. As for max camber, there are issues from car to car. Most have found that once past 2 degrees negative camber (in front) caster gain becomes pronounced, enough so that getting back DOWN to 8 degrees of caster may not doable!! Lower the car accentuates this. Also, large negative camber can lead to negative impacts on braking on road courses. Some toe OUT on the front and a bit of toe IN on the back generally is a good thing in Solo, but the AMOUNT of each should probably be much less on the road courses. What happens at 30-50 mph is a LOT different than at 90-120 mph! And so are the consequences!!!!! Before one starts playing with toe settings at Solo events, it's good idea to have a Longacre toe plate set and learn how to to string the car so that from time to time one can make sure that everything is still pointed in right directions. If you want me to sort of walk you through it, drop me an e-mail or PM with a phone # and we can talk. The more one does this, the easier it gets. (It sure wasn't at first!!)

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #81 on:** July 19, 2010, 09:59:14 AM »

As for road course vs. autocross, I put my car's surrent setup into Forza 3 and the thing was undrivable. I have tuned a few cars that are close to the top of the leaderboards on there, usually a little to out in the rear for stability, front and rear camber usually under a degree.

And who needs a set of longacre toe plates? I've got a fair bit of aluminum plate lying around, might be able to make something happen with that.

And still toying with the idea of picking up a Foxbody, so we'll see...

DeepBlueGXP · « **Reply #82 on:** July 19, 2010, 12:38:46 PM »

If someone could put all the specs into one post so I can print that out and get mine done, that would help!

smartin · « **Reply #83 on:** July 19, 2010, 12:59:10 PM »

Good idea, Joe. I'm interested in this information, also.

snaponbob · « **Reply #84 on:** July 19, 2010, 05:08:07 PM »

Solo or road race?

JimmyBaja · « **Reply #85 on:** July 20, 2010, 07:28:30 AM »

SOB, since no one else answered I'll speak for them - SOLO. I think most people are doing more auto-x, except for Kenny & I think he has it figured out for his road racing. Drag racers I think need to leave it stock, no benefit there.

snaponbob · « **Reply #86 on:** July 20, 2010, 08:31:33 AM »

Quote from: JimmyBaja on July 20, 2010, 07:28:30 AM

SOB, since no one else answered I'll speak for them - SOLO. I think most people are doing more auto-x, except for Kenny & I think he has it figured out for his road racing. Drag racers I think need to leave it stock, no benefit there.

Okay, so where are we on this thread now? Which question/s is/are in play?

smartin · « **Reply #87 on:** July 20, 2010, 09:00:59 AM »

I think we're at the point where DBG asked for specs in one place and I wanted to see the same. Thanks in advance.

snaponbob · « **Reply #88 on:** July 20, 2010, 09:08:37 AM »

With street style tires 2.2 - 2.5 front and 1.3 -1.5 negative cambers work real well. For Hoosiers it's best to have 2.6-2.8 front and 1.6 - 1.8 rear with zero toe f&r. Rear caster is not too critical. Front will gain a LOT of caster as the camber goes past 2 degrees negative, so the important spec is as close to 8 degrees of caster as the tech can get AND the SAME caster left and right otherwise unequal caster will start to cause pull.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #89 on:** July 20, 2010, 10:30:26 AM »

Ok let's get this organized, please fill in the blanks, and then let's get the OP updated. Or start a new thread with just specs.

Z0K Spec:
Camber Front -1.75 +/- .75 deg.
Camber Rear -1.5 +/- .75 deg.
Caster Front 7.75 +/- .5 deg.
Caster Rear -4.0 +/- .5 deg.
Toe Front .10 +/- .2 deg.
Toe Rear .10 +/- .2 deg.

Road Course recommendations

Enthusiastic Street Driving recommendations

AutoX recommendations
Street tires:
Camber Front 2.2-2.5
Camber Rear 1.3-1.5
Caster Front 8 (critical to have left and right the same)
Caster Rear 4 (not critical if you can't get the tool, critical to have left and right the same)
Toe Front .10 +/- .2 deg. same as Z0K Spec?
Toe Rear .10 +/- .2 deg. same as Z0K Spec?

Hoosiers:
Camber Front 2.6-2.8
Camber Rear 1.6-1.8
Caster Front 8 (critical to have left and right the same)
Caster Rear 4 (not critical if you can't get the tool, critical to have left and right the same)
Toe Front .10 +/- .2 deg. same as Z0K Spec?
Toe Rear .10 +/- .2 deg. same as Z0K Spec?

smartin · « **Reply #90 on:** July 20, 2010, 10:49:36 AM »

Good work, Kenny!

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #91 on:** July 20, 2010, 01:46:14 PM »

You know, this is a question that's been bugging me for a while...why does caster matter on the rear tires since they don't steer?

kennysabarese · « **Reply #92 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:04:37 PM »

It's in the original post "Rear caster adjustment is used on the Solstice and SKY to insure rear ride steer (bump steer) is within specification. Ride steer is toe change during vertical wheel travel."

Uranium-238 · « **Reply #93 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:11:53 PM »

Ah, that makes sense. So the stiffer the rear suspension the less you need it.

snaponbob · « **Reply #94 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:35:02 PM »

First, while the GM service bulletin specs are nice for reference, one quick look at the T2 and SSB Solstices show that NONE of them are running that way. Even the factory C/S and A/S Solo cars that ran the Nationals in 06 and 07 ran a lot more camber than that. Additionally, for Solo use the toe specs are worthless. Again, for Solo, zero toe f&r is the best place to start. If someone wants to adjust this at events, it is fairly easy, and I can go over that if someone would like. For road racing, people should get some input from people that have more knowledge, but fine and certainly smaller, adjustments would seem logical. After all, mistakes at 45mph mean a quick 180 while a mistake at 100mph could result in some drastically bigger results!!!

Second, as the rear suspension moves through its travel, the toe and camber does change, thus caster will also change a bit as well. Running springs in the range of the Z0K rates at road course speeds would probably result in a good bit of travel. Having the rear caster set properly would mean a more predictable "set" to the suspension. The factory tool is available from time to time on e-bay and elsewhere for under $100. It might be a good thing to have for the best adjustment of the rear. Around a major metro area (like DC) the cost could be shared with the tool being passed around as it is needed.

LatinVenom · « **Reply #95 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:43:27 PM »

Please if you have them post the specs the T2 and SSB were running in their cars, please.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #96 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:45:04 PM »

If the info in my chart is wrong please correct it.

snaponbob · « **Reply #97 on:** July 20, 2010, 04:39:23 PM »

Quote from: LatinVenom on July 20, 2010, 02:43:27 PM

Please if you have them post the specs the T2 and SSB were running in their cars, please.

The SSB and T2 cars were simply an eye ball thing. ESPECIALLY the Knowles T2. As for the Solo GXP at the 2007 Solo Nats, the drivers told me that they were well beyond the specs listed.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #98 on:** July 20, 2010, 09:16:52 PM »

Yeah, so as ya'll may remember, I went to Stimola racing to check my shocks, they supply the shocks for Phoenix aka Don Knowles car and others, and they told me that because they are limited to using certain parts, they have to play lots of tricks to get that extra edge, I'm sure alignment is one of them

To sum it up...

kennysabarese · « **Reply #99 on:** July 26, 2010, 12:00:53 PM »

I guess no one is going to finish off my charts. Oh well.

Here is a good technical explanation on alignment from an AutoX perspective. From a champion AutoXer

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets22.html

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Author Topic: Alignment Info for Kappas (Read 60814 times)