Topic: Alignment Info for Kappas

[Critterman]

Jimmy, there may be some GXP shocks/springs laying around Joe's garage.  There used to be at least one full set, maybe more.

And yes I believe you have put your monster into SBP alongside of corvettes and other snarling cars running racing tires..  PS it is scary out there

[JimmyBaja]

I was just at the SCCA site trying to figure out exactly which class I would be in & it looks like SSM.

If there are some GXP suspension parts laying arround or if someone wants to unload some for cheap that would be a great place to start. I'll be needing something more than I have now that's for sure with the class I'll be put in at events.

[DeepBlueGXP]

there is one GXP/spring combo in the garage, the other 3 are without springs and becides they are my spare parts in case of a leaky shock.  (they were Go-N Def's)

[Brad Kenny]

Jimmy: Talk with DDM, they have "Shelf spares" of the GXP shocks and springs due to the above mentioned issue. I did this trade-out at the SMM, you will not regret increase in handling.  I am even thinking about getting rid of the Eibachs and going to GXP ZOK springs for the winter and next year.  There are plenty of sets available on BB (SOL).

DeepBlueGXP: I figured DDM sould sent you a replacement set after the MeetMOD as the payback for the one I had to use. (remember the leaky shock). Thanks again for the loaner. If I need to wrap this up for you PM me.

[JimmyBaja]

Talked to the  service advisor at the GM dealership in Ashland Va. that Rogue & GXPsyRose use and they are willing to do the performance alignment for me to whatever specs I give them. 

[DeepBlueGXP]

CT, I did get the replacement, that is the only one with a spring on it.

[snaponbob]

I was just at the SCCA site trying to figure out exactly which class I would be in & it looks like SSM.

IIRC, you mentioned that you have a BackBone installed. That bumps you out of SSM. Already checked for myself. Minimum is Prepared. And THAT would probably be X/P. Simplest solution is to remove the BackBone for events and run SSM where your puffed 2.4 IS legal.

[LatinVenom]

Bob,
If he swaps the Backbone for a chassis front brace will that bump him also?.

[snaponbob]

LV, if you mean the chassis tie bar that mounts in front of the engine, besides its questionable value, it might not be legal in SSM. It is NOT legal in B/SP. If Jimmy does not have the DDM ProBeam, he should. That thing WORKS. ................................ Just looked at the 2010 Solo rule book. Any front cross connector must attach to either the spring towers or control arm pivots. The chassis bar does neither.

[JimmyBaja]

   This stuff gets confusing
15. STREET PREPARED CATEGORY
15.2 BODYWORK
C. Transverse members known as strut bars and suspension braces
may be added, removed, modifi ed, or substituted. They must be bolted
on. Strut bars must be attached to the strut/shock tower. Lower
suspension braces much be attached to the lower suspension pickup
point locations on the chassis within 2 inches in any direction of the
actual suspension attachment to the chassis. Except for standard
parts, no connections to other components are permitted. Additional
holes may be drilled for mounting bolts. Interior trim panels may be
modifi ed to allow installation of strut bars. Holes or slots may be no
larger than necessary and may serve no other purpose. This does
not permit any modifi cations to the frame or unibody beyond the allowed
mounting holes.
E. Longitudinal (fore-aft) subframe connectors (SFCs) are permitted
with the following restrictions:
1. They must only connect previously unconnected boxed frame rails
on unibody vehicles.
2. Each SFC must attach at no more than three points on the unibody
(e.g. front, rear, and one point in between such as a seat
mount brace or rocker box brace).
3. SFCs must be bolted or welded, but welding must be to the OE
subframe stampings, not to the fl oor pan in between.
4. No cutting of OE subframes or fl oorpan stampings is permitted.
Drilling is permitted for mounting bolts only.
5. No cross-car/lateral/triangulated connections directly between the
driver’s side and passenger’s side SFCs are permitted. Connections
to OE components such as tunnel braces or closure panels
via bolts are allowed and count as the third point of attachment.
No alteration to the OE components is permitted.
6. SFCs may not be used to attach other components (including but
not limited to torque arm front mounts or driveshaft loops) and
may serve no other purpose.

[JimmyBaja]

15. STREET PREPARED CATEGORY
15.10 ENGINE AND DRIVE TRAIN
4. Turbochargers and/or superchargers (forced induction) may not
be added, changed, or modifi ed (this does not allow ceramic coating
of turbochargers).

This definately bumps me to:

16. STREET MODIFIED CATEGORY
2. Super Street Modifi ed (SSM), a class for two-seat cars and selected
sedans/coupes as described below.
16.1 ALLOWED MODIFICATIONS
B. Competitors may pick and choose between all Stock, Street Touring,
Street Prepared, and Street Modifi ed category allowances when preparing
an SM car. Apparent confl icts between inherited rule sets from
16.1.A shall not prohibit any specifi c inherited allowance. Allowances
inherited from 16.1.A may not incorporate SM-specifi c allowances.
Foreign spec parts may not be used to substitute for parts which are
required to remain stock.
G. Subframe connectors are allowed as per Street Prepared (15.2.E).

So if my backbone (tunnel brace) is illegal then this puts me to the next class:

17. PREPARED CATEGORY
17.0.A. Intent
It is the intent of these rules to allow modifi cations useful and necessary
in the preparation of a high performance, production based
non-street-driven vehicle.
 
At this point I might as well just run weekends for fun with car clubs following their classes like this weekends run with the BMW club.  

THIS POST IS 2 PARTS - SEE PREVIOUS THREAD PAGE

Sorry for all the text, this is only a gnats fart compared to the whole SCCA rules, you need a freekin lawyer to decipher it all.

[snaponbob]

The SCCA Solo rule book is a wonder to behold. The basic premise is 'if it does not say you CAN, you CAN'T'. I am not fond of the lack of clarity of this rule set, but others (NASA) are really no better. Jimmy, if you remove the Backbone, and do NOT install that front brace, you have a legal SSM car. The INTENT of the SSM and SM classes is for streetable cars on (arguably) DOT tires (R-comps), while the prepared cars are "race" cars on slicks. Realistically, some of the most serious Stock class cars are trailer queens, so it is no surprise to see cars "above" Stock are often trailered. As prep levels go up, the cars become less streetable.

The COMBINATION of mods you have done dictate the class(es) it is legal in. Changing that combination of mods changes the eligible classes. Ultimately, as you car is equipped it is not competitive in applicable classes. THAT said, Solo is more about fun than anything else. Mod the car to your liking, go to any Solo events you like, and work on driving better each and every run. THAT in itself is measurable success. If you REALLY bet bitten by ":the bug" then there will be decisions to be made. In the meanwhile, tweak the suspension as you like (parts, alignment, etc.), find some events, plop down your money, and have some fun !!!!!! 

[Ben L]

   Guys and gals, for your initial forays into Solo racing, I would not worry too much about what class you wind up in.   In SCCA, it is a near certainty that a newbie will not be running in the trophies for a while.  So just let the classification chips fall where they may with your mods, and do the best you can.  There are lots of ways to measure improvement and success.  Eric Kreimelmeyer runs a GXP in B Stock, and often runs faster raw times than Wade and Larry in their XP Cobras, and those guys are fast by anyone's measure.

BY all means run with different clubs.  But don't forego SCCA events because of their annoying tendency toward rule obsession.  In the WDC region, SCCA and AI (a sister SCCA WDC region club) design the most technical, fastest and most flowing courses out there.  Evo School instructor Sam Strano, Lee Piccone and other very experienced autoxers generally lay them out.  Plus they run a very highly organized event; getting four good runs for sometimes up to 200 cars in a well orchestrated dance.  You will be depriving yourself of some really fine circuits and great on the job training as driver and worker if you allow that stuff to scare you off.  Larry Casey and me and others will be there to help you figure things out.  

I am living proof that you do not need to get on the podium to have fun.

The main thing is seat time.  All else is secondary.

[Critterman]

that's why I just get in the car and mash the gas Jimmy

[JimmyBaja]

Thank you all for the advise & support!

I agree, FUN IT IS & I'm on my way. Hope to see you guys on the course some day, I have alot to learn & would love to see you guys in action.

[Critterman]

Those FFR boys can drive Jimmy, even Ben who is constantly saying they spank him all the time.

[LatinVenom]

Bob,
All I can tell you about the front chassis brace (I have designed one) and has been on my car for over a month now.
So far it makes the whole car more stiff. I could also make additional modifications and attach the springs towers to it.
Is going to be a very inexpensive mod, however I can not quantify it, until I can do a before and after test on a road course.

[snaponbob]

Bob,
All I can tell you about the front chassis brace (I have designed one) and has been on my car for over a month now.
So far it makes the whole car more stiff. I could also make additional modifications and attach the springs towers to it.
Is going to be a very inexpensive mod, however I can not quantify it, until I can do a before and after test on a road course.

My guess it that it would help. It is, however, illegal in SCCA Solo B/SP and probably in SSM as well. Otherwise, I would try one. I am at the point where I may be fashioning some cardboard over the winter to see what I can do at the spring towers.

[shabby]

All I can tell you about the front chassis brace (I have designed one) and has been on my car for over a month now.

Pics? How does the steering feel, is it still dead?

I am at the point where I may be fashioning some cardboard over the winter to see what I can do at the spring towers.

A cardboard brace... interesting

[kennysabarese]

A few of us asked Werks to do a DDM style test to see if their front chassis brace shows any measurable difference. Still nothing.

[shabby]

Im not sure if the ddm style test is a good way to test the front chassis brace that links the two main beams, i think simply some feedback from someone who competes in autox/road racing and knows his stuff would be sufficient.

[LatinVenom]

Pics? How does the steering feel, is it still dead?

A cardboard brace... interesting

NO PICS until the final fabrication and test are done.
The one on the car now in combination with the ProBeam and the BackBone is keeping the whole chassis LOCKED.
To answer your other question....
Somewhat dead but not completely dead, not sure how else to describe it without really being in a road course with before and after tests.

[snaponbob]

A cardboard brace... interesting

As Jack Benny would say - "now, cut that out".

[kennysabarese]

Im not sure if the ddm style test is a good way to test the front chassis brace that links the two main beams, i think simply some feedback from someone who competes in autox/road racing and knows his stuff would be sufficient.

Yea, so far I don't know of anyone who has one apart from Werks employees.

[snaponbob]

Yea, so far I don't know of anyone who has one apart from Werks employees.

I think I have seen pics of these installed on member's cars over on the BB. I don't remember who, however..