Topic: LIPSTICK'S 800hp first LNF compound turbo/engine build!

[SKY888]

currently at 37psi.....

good news:   Turbine pressure is only 1.5psi higher than compressor pressure.

bad news:   with the current boost pressure, the AC delco plugs 41-108 gapped 0.035" are not cutting it.


will  need colder plugs.....

[LatinVenom]

You need to get the equivalents of the originals 41-102

[SKY888]

NGK ILTR6A-8G (part # 3787) is one range colder.

NGK LTRX7IX-11 (part # 6510) is two range colder

[elff]

In comparison to all the work you have had done, spark plugs are cheap.
I'd start one level colder.
If they don't work
Throw them out and go to the next step.
Worse case, you are out less than $100 which is nothing for this build

[Sly Bob]

Yeah I'm sure you're glad that the "bad" isn't badder than hot plugs.       Looking forward to some videos.

[elff]

Aint that the truth.
With how crazy this build is, the fact that its getting down to only spark plugs is a giant testiment to all the engineering, custom parts and tuning

Very exciting stuff for sure

[SKY888]

damn sorry...I guess was dramatic w/ my "bad news" ....my bad.

the stock plugs come w/ 0.035 gap.
w/ my old gt3582r set-up, the stock plugs also were not happy w/ the high boost (26-28psi) it was getting.

after decreasing the gap to 0.028, everything went smoothly.....and even gave me an extra 30 whp on the dyno..lol



so first....... we'll probably just gap these brand new stock plugs to 0.028 or lower....until they're happy again.


depending on what the plugs look like when they get pulled out..........we might not even need one range colder plugs.

[Gentleman Jack]

Drama queen!

[elff]

 

Are you taking video of the Dyno runs?
I am curious as to how this beast sounds.

[SKY888]

Drama queen!

yeah.....I guess!  lol!

I'm just trying to let people know that an engine build...doesn't always go according to plan.

lots of stuff need to be considered....down to small things like spark plugs gap

[SKY888]

Are you taking video of the Dyno runs?
I am curious as to how this beast sounds.

no dyno runs yet......still on the beginning stages of tuning. 

Lots of bugs to trace. Interaction of two turbos, pressure ratios of compressors/turbines for both turbos, Pressure Ratios of the whole system......two wastegate settings.......(the two boost controllers in this set-up) mechanical and electronic.....EGTs........and drive pressure...........all have to work perfectly simultaneously w/ one another.

turbine pressure is critical. It can't be too high compared to the compressor pressure.



If one is a miss.....it will be an epic fail....


dyno WOT tuning once every component is on the same page...........

[SKY888]

I am curious as to how this beast sounds.

there is a youtube video on my previous post (several posts back).   Engine was revved.
video/audio are both non-HD so it kinda sound crappy.


but soon, HD video will be posted so you'll have an idea.


hearing the lil turbo screams like a biyatch......and then big tubo starts pounding and howling ..........is like hearing pure sex in action 

[SKY888]

this is the latest log of BTF

according to him, somewhere burried in the tables......there is a hysteresis check.

If VE flow exceeds MAF by a dictated amount, it tells the Bosch PCM to dump fuel despite what the 02 sensor is telling it.

Even with the addition of the secondary fuel system (additional PI injectors), you can only cheat the MAF so far, before it realizes it   


anywho............the combo of 93 pump gas (DI) and e85 (PI) combo is still looking good.
36 psi with no knock....

[SKY888]

DYNO UPDATE:

yesterday, car was strapped onto the dynojet.

it only made 480whp SAE corrected on 30psi of boost


anything boost higher than that, we just lose power due to fueling issues.
DI injectors are maxed out at this level with 20% fuel from PI.

MAF is half the level of VE then the PCM starts doing crazy shiit.

It starts jacking the load% up even though it is not lean.   Then PW of DI starts going up..and it misfires.


We need to sort out this fueling issue........in order to boost to around 45psi, which will give me another  150 horses which will be my goal.


Since Matt of ZZP is the only one with LNF who broke 700+whp sae corrected, I asked him how he was able to supply enough fuel on his cobalt (stock DI injectors, large fuel lobe, and 5th injector (80lb).

As usual, Matt is helpful enough to give me some tuning tips and feedbacks.

Thank you matt!   You have given me a lot of help for a couple of years now! 



My stage 1 cam w/ big fuel lobe and PI injectors are not enough.   
So today, I bought a set of those bigger opel injectors.   This set of injectors are 14% bigger thank stock...and will help keep the PW to 8ms.

[elff]

Are those injectors for the DI or on the port injection you have?

[SKY888]

These Opel injectors are direct replacement of our stock DI injectors.

They are DI

[miller11386]

I smell Motec, Pro-efi, syvecs, or some other stand alone in your future if you truly want to max out the car.

[SKY888]

at the moment, tuning is just focused on Turbo dynamics and how they interact w/ each other during low and high boost. Spool characteristics using different wg set-up.....


Not focusing of how to build power........timing and etc.



UPDATE 1:


Rick Gifford aka BTF (my tuner) tried a couple of set-up for the small turbo's wastegate

First one (ABSOLUTE) is with the pressure line from the GT42 discharge hooked to the top of the primary (60mm) gate. It made 19psi by 3500. Turbine pressure is also very high, there is 8-9psi more turbine pressure then boost.


Second one is (RELATIVE), the gate is open to the atmosphere on the top of the primary gate. It spools alot slower, but it made the GT42 take over fully on the top end. Boost pressure is higher then manifold pressure, that's how big power is made. At high rpm when the GT42 is making all of the boost (only at this wg set-up), the PR of the primary stage is below zero, implying a pressure drop across the little one. This means that the little one is freewheeling in the wind at high rpm.(again, only in this wg set-up) The drop across the entire system is less then a few psi. Implying that the whole coldside flows enough for us for now.

BTF will try and set up the pnuematics to be a hybrid of absolute/relative. Start out with the gate nailed shut and then transition to full on GT42 action.


UPDATE 2:

regading fuel issue we had before.......increasing the fuel pressure to commanded 18mpa fuel rail pressure and upgrading to opel injectors........we are now getting 3.4-3.8 ms at 7500 rpm! They both helped dramatically.  We have way more fuel supply right now


UPDATE 3:
we are adding oil scavenging system for both turbos. Thanks to TURBOWERX.COM for the sponsorship of their Exa-pump and Exa-Pure filter!!!







UPDATE 4:
Now that we know that the gt2871r is not being choked by the gt4294r, and I would like to have a faster spool, we are replacing it with a gt2860r.


We will still use the Tial turbine housing of the gt2871r, since all these gt28 turbos can share turbine housings.








cfg used on this compound tuning is specific to MPVI sensors and a custom table to log afr error for the split second R4 controller (PI injectors)

[ihawk95]

That's awesome Antonio!  Sounds like it's really starting to come along now!

[critter]

That's awesome Antonio!  Sounds like it's really starting to come along now!

I don't understand any of it but it sounds good and I like the pictures! HAve at it....

[ihawk95]

I don't understand any of it but it sounds good and I like the pictures! HAve at it....

I'm still learning also, but know just enough to follow most of what he has going on!

[Kelu]

Can you share some info about Opel DI injectors? I presume they are not from Opel GT Vectra OPC?
What was the difference between previous DI injectors and Opel ones?

[ihawk95]

Can you share some info about Opel DI injectors? I presume they are not from Opel GT Vectra OPC?
What was the difference between previous DI injectors and Opel ones?

Kelu - Here is some of the info about the injectors.  It's burried at the end of one of Antonio's posts.  There may be a little more on the Sky side:

"So today, I bought a set of those bigger opel injectors.   This set of injectors are 14% bigger thank stock...and will help keep the PW to 8ms."

[Kelu]

I read his posts
I was asking from which model of Opel and a direct difference between old ones and new ones on the same rpm and airflow/boost if he has that kind of data.

[ihawk95]

Ah...got it.  I don't think he ever said which model Opel.  Seems like he posted more about it on the Sky side though.

I can't find it Kelu.  It might be buried in another thread as there was another thread created in reply to Antonio's.