Topic: Brake cooling ducts, for NA or upgrade for turbos

[kennysabarese]

So, I was talking with Don Knowles, who's won SCCA Road Racing nationals with the NA and GXP Solstice a few times, and he told me for 2010 they are allowing the Solstice to upgrade their brake ducts to a 3" pipe.

I've been wanting to lose the foglights and directional from the Sky front bumper anyway, so now I have a reason to do it, so I can make bigger ducts!

NormSky just mentioned something like this.

http://www.eastcoastsupercharging.com/Custom%20Brake%20Duct%20Kit.html

Here's a pic

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The stock turbo's have brake ducts but don't have that big plate. What's the reason for that?

[Dave@DDMworks]

The brake ducts that the GXP's and the Redlines have is more of just a suggestion for the air to go in the direction of the brakes. On race cars you install flex hose to point directly at the center of the rotor to force more air through it for cooling. The plate is there to attach the hose to and force more air through the rotors. Actually just did this to our chumpcar for this weekends race after destroying our front bearings at the last race do to severe overheating of the brakes.

[kennysabarese]

Sweet!

I'm going to try to make something similar to this on my own. The plate will be the hardest part.

[NormSky]

I used 3" clothing dryer "T" and Corvette Z06 plastic ducts around wheel area. Your biggest concern will be keeping the duct away from the wheel in tight turns. Not a big deal on a roadcourse though.

[kennysabarese]

I'd rather have something that is on all the time. Maybe to start I'll just take the stock ones out and remove the lights which should allow for a massive hose. 

If that's not enough, take it to the next level.

[Carbon Sky]

Why not just put some ducting on the end of the existing outlet, and find some way to secure the other end near the brakes?

I'd rather have something that is on all the time. Maybe to start I'll just take the stock ones out and remove the lights which should allow for a massive hose. 

If that's not enough, take it to the next level.

[kennysabarese]

I want more air, so I want the ducts to be larger.

[Gentleman Jack]

Kenny,

any benifit to putting in an electric fan?  That way, even at low speeds / stop the brakes would be recieving cool air?  When at high speeds, the fan would just be pushed by the incoming air, requiring 0 energy to spin.  Could be wired in line with engine fan which you can control using HPT.  Perhaps a 4 inch fan would not move enough air to make it worth while?

[Gentleman Jack]

just had another idea.  it's a bit off the wall, but hey, look who came up with it

What if you could put tubing inside the rotor? or caliper (since the caliper is fixed, not rotating) and run a radiator / transmission cooler?  The brakes would then be liquid cooled and would dominate the world!  Ok, perhaps not, but if no one else has ever thought of it, I lay claim to the idea!  Research will begin soon.

Liquid cooled brakes.  You heard it here first.  Kenny - will you be my test dummy?

GJ

ok, just googled it.  They are out there, but not for street car use or road racing that I see after quick glance.  Still, one of my better ideas today.  (I didn't say it was a good day...)

[kennysabarese]

I'm sure both of your ideas would be in production cars today if they were effective.

[kennysabarese]

Google.... http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/ProductsServices/Airflex/Products/ProductCatalog/WaterCooledBrakes/

and the fan idea

http://www.lelandwest.com/auto-tech/powered-brake-ducts.cfm

[Gentleman Jack]

Kenny - killer of ideas.  Squasher of dreams.  Realist.  Racer.  All around good guy.

[Uranium-238]

Didn't they use brake duct fans in NASCAR at one point in time? I could be mistaken...

[wspohn]

That's correct, the stock 'ducts' are more a styling feature than a serious cooling proposition, but to be fair, no one NEEDS real brake ducts for these cars on the street.

If you are really flogging the cars on a track, you can certainly build up significant heat. In that case, you can run ducts from the stock openings (which are adequately sized) to the discs for cooling.

In the past we have used the ubiquitous dryer tubing - white plastic with a coil of wire moulded in to hold the shape. Also looks pretty funny when someone miscalculates clearance and a tire grabs a chunk of the tubing, because it comes apart and looks like you are trailing a long, dead slinky toy....

If you really are getting marginal on brake cooling, the usual (and easiest) method shown in the pictures of simply pointing the duct at one side of the disc doesn't really do the job. It is better to use what is in effect a tin can with the hose going in the open end and a slot cut where the closed end fits over the disc rotor.  Of course you also need to weld a bracket or tabs to that so that it bolts firmly to something, as flexible mounting leads to 'death of slinky' (see above).

This method shoves cool air at both sides of the rotor and does a better job of keeping the pads in operating range (and as Dave noted, keeps from frying your fornt hubs and bearings).

We even drilled and threaded holes in the wheels on a Datsun 240Z that was cooking the brakes, and bolted on some Corvair engine fans, modified to suit, which when rotating drew air from inside the wheel and pushed it out the otside - worked like a hot damn.  This would offer a whole new type of accessory that the usualy suspects could market (99% to people that will never really need them, of course, but that is the way the game is played).

PS - you probably can't do this in street class, but the usual race suppliers offer headlight bucket replacements with spigots on the back for ducting and a nice metal grill on the front in the shape of a headlight.

[Dave@DDMworks]

Actually they still do use fans on the brakes and also they use fans on ducts for the tires also. They can turn on the fans for the tires to cool a tire down from side to side to change the handling of the car also.

[Duck1313]

Just do what the truck do.


SPRAY

[kennysabarese]

That's correct, the stock 'ducts' are more a styling feature than a serious cooling proposition.

there are plastic tubes on the GXP and RL I don't think they would bother with that tubes if it was purely for looks?

[wspohn]

there are plastic tubes on the GXP and RL I don't think they would bother with that tubes if it was purely for looks?

They aren't proper racing style ducts, which is what we are talking about.

[kennysabarese]

yeah understood. so a bigger duct without the plate is useless?

[Arabas]

so you re saying that the stock brake coolers are no good, just good for aesthetics?

[kennysabarese]

I think both ws and Dave are saying that they do something, but not much.

[Arabas]

i m pretty sure that if they weren t there for a reason, gm wouldn t waste this amount of money to make the hole, placa the duct etc. it would just be a closed mesh.
on the other hand, i don t expect miracles but a small amount of fresh air to drop the temperature a bit.
if they do nothing, then we should cancel them and make a duct from the opening on the bumper to the intake and this would give us a real CAI

[wspohn]

so you re saying that the stock brake coolers are no good, just good for aesthetics?

No, no, it isn't quite that bad.

Many manufacturers (Ford Mustang for one) add fake ducts that go nowhere and are nothing buy styling.  The ducts on the Solstice GXP (and of course Redline) are semifunctional in that they direct air flow in the general direction of the brakes, but are certainly not intended as a real racing capable measure.  With a bit of modification, they should be pretty effective, though.

I doubt many people will be racing in a way that needs more than the stock cooling.  Certainly slalom shouldn't need it, and selection of pad material with more bite and heat range will be enough.

[Arabas]

OK, got it! 

[Uranium-238]

I'm sure they do something, though not be enough to do any noticeable good. To me I think they're basically there just so people can say "Hey check it out, my car has brake ducts."