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Author Topic: Big wheel turbo project with K04 rebuild instructions on Post 32  (Read 16635 times)

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Offline Arabas

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i was planning to start this thread when all would be over, but as it always happens with cars and mods, nothing goes as planned, so some opinions could be usefull.

with the help of a friend GT owner, i decided to try the big wheel turbo upgrade and do it locally. i have bought a brand new turbo at a good price, so since I have back up, it helped me to take the decision to start. if the project goes wrong, I will put my brand new stock turbo on and bye bye project.

After discussing pricing through a friend the whole project, including removal of the turbo, upgrade wheel, putting back turbo and Trifecta tune, it would cost me around 500-550 euros = $700

Took it to the garage, he removed the turbo, took it to a specialized turbo garage. They tore it apart.
What they found:
They found some turbo slop
The turbine housing at the twin scroll had a small superficial crack, and said it was normal and could not cause any problem
The guy who removed my turbo said that the bolts holding the turbo and the exhaust manifold were a bit loose.

So they took my turbo to another Greek city, they ported the intake part of the housing.
They put a wheel 0.118 inches (3 mm) bigger. They also replaced the mounts of the shaft (called 360 thross) which is supposed to be more solid and will handle the bigger wheel.

Unfortunately, since they put a 360 thross and some other expenses, they didn t ask for 350 euros, but 540 euros….
After some stupid delays, two weeks later, took the upgraded turbo to the garage and put it on. Filled the system with G12 coolant (has some kind of oil in it to help the turbo) 50-50 with water and took it home. The guy took 170 euros for work and G12.
Did a log and sent it to Vince. Unfortunately, he will be on vacation until 4th of November, so I haven’t got any tune for it. I must say the price Vince asked for this tune was a really good deal.

While doing the log, I noticed a weird sound followed by some indications on my analogue boost gauge.
I hear the waste gate (or is it the BOV?) opening and closing continuously while on WOT. My boost gauge was going like crazy between 25-30 psi.

Also the sound has definitely changed, a more racing sound.

Today I popped up the hood with engine running and I put my face near the turbo housing, above the heat shield. It smelled gas…. Furthermore, where the turbo heat shield connects to the heat shield of the exhaust manifold, it has turned brown, probably indicating exhaust fumes…

Flashed it back to stock, and in the next days I will  go to a dealer to check it. this dealer owns a GT and he is a great guy (as I have been told). Going to tell him the whole story and see if he can help me.
I will also let Vince what I ve noticed.

Questions
Smelling some gas fumes right above the turbo is abnormal? Brown color is caused by gas fumes? (I think yes, but I need some gearhead’s opinions here)
What do you think is wrong? could it be that the bolts holding exhaust manifold and turbo are loose, or something else? Could be that the turbo has broken?
PS I have no CEL, car has power, not as much as expected, but definitely at least the power levels prior to the big wheel mod.
 datalogs were made with the tune for the stock turbo. i still have NO tune for the upgraded wheel

thx to Kelu, Latin Venom and Joe for their support and advice all these days
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 02:16:44 PM by DeepBlueGXP »
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Offline DirtyMike

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 02:03:43 PM »
the weird sound your getting at hight boost could be the turbo surging...mine did it after the install, w/ proper tunning from DDM it went away.

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Offline wspohn

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 02:10:59 PM »
Don't mess about, other than to do a data capture for Vince, until he is back.  You can run into bad things like detonation when you swap out without a suitable retune.

Just keep it stock and keep your foot out of it - hard, I know - until you get feedback (and a retune) from Vince.
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Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 02:14:51 PM »
Thx Dirtymike, i just read about surge and this is some usefull info!

wspohn, your opinion is not to move the car at all, not even go to the dealer to check the weird gas fumes smell above the turbo and just wait for Vince to send me a tune for the big wheel?
this is something i can t decide ...should i get it to the dealer with stock tune or not move it at all?
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Offline wspohn

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 02:17:23 PM »
You can putter around and get any leakage issues dealt with, just avoid full throttle runs untill you talk to Vince.
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2010, 02:20:39 PM »
You can putter around and get any leakage issues dealt with, just avoid full throttle runs untill you talk to Vince.
thx a lot wspohn! this helps a lot deciding what to do. i will only take it to the dealer to see if there are any leakage problems and will be extremely gentle on the gas pedal
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 02:33:13 PM »
Sound like your gaskets have leaks, when it cools down, look at the underside of the heat shield, there shouldn't be any soot on it.

Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2010, 02:40:23 PM »
Joe, if the problem is gaskets as you say, it is something i need to check at the dealer, correct?
could they have been destroyed when working on the turbo, or just failed at the wrong time?
can i remove the shield myself. only two bolts on top holding it into place?
if it s an easy look,i ll go right now and check
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline HAMMER DOWN

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2010, 03:37:24 PM »
It a good practice to use new gaskets when replacing or removing & reinstalling part. Hope your Tech did so.  If he did, then need to look to see if the bolt came loose. The last thing I'll would check is the mating surfaces are true of the two part that are going together. Some thing to look for.

Good luck. Mike  
Here's to many rides with the top down, wind in your hair & the  hammer down.  :drag: :brnout: :drive:

Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2010, 04:27:24 PM »
Joe nailed it, if not, then he is pretty close.
heat shield has 3 10mm bolts, 2 on top and one towards the passenger's fender.

it looks like either there is a gasket failure or the bolts have come loose. hammer down, i strongly doubt that the mechanic used new gaskets... i am pretty sure he used the ones that were there in the first place
i didn't try to tighten them, since i don't have a 15mm and secondly because i was afraid to do so.

here are some pics.

Guys of kappa community:  :urock:

http://img840.imageshack.us/i/p1030850u.jpg/

http://img841.imageshack.us/i/p1030852k.jpg/

http://img811.imageshack.us/i/p1030853q.jpg/


should i tighten it myself or take it to the dealer?


DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline Critterman

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2010, 04:36:09 PM »
Tighten it cold if you know what the torque should be.
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Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 04:41:16 PM »
thx Critter, definetely don't know what the torque should be...
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline Critterman

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2010, 04:46:18 PM »
Joe should know he has the manual on his computer, Joe?
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension
Lambo Doors

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2010, 05:24:49 PM »
Dirty Mike, i was not aware of turbo surge.
when you said about it being a possible problem, i came across a video on youtube and hell yeah, you nailed it... this is what my turbo sounded like, not so loud, but still noticeable.
hope my turbo is OK...  :(


DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline LatinVenom

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2010, 06:18:35 PM »
But the surge  should only manifest itself when you get on it.
I had forgotten about the surge since my Upgraded wheel was Installed and Tuned by DDM.
The day beforemy install and tune, DDM had tune DirtyMike's car and got rid off the surge.
By the way I am on my 2nd DDM tune and this one is a lot more powerful than the original.
Now that you have the stock tune, just drive it normally until Vince can get back to you.
It will probably take him a few times before he can have running optimal.
If Joe comes back with the torque numbers go ahead and do it yourself.
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Offline HAMMER DOWN

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2010, 07:06:57 PM »
hammer down, i strongly doubt that the mechanic used new gaskets... i am pretty sure he used the ones that were there in the first place
i didn't try to tighten them, since i don't have a 15mm and secondly because i was afraid to do so.

That's usually a no-no. Most exhaust gaskets are a 1 time use only, that mate two flat flanges together. Usually made of two thin peaces of stainless steel with a raised area. This raised area is what is crushed between the to mating surfaces to make the seal.

 43ft. lbs. is the torque of the nuts that hold the cat to the turbo.

Mike
Here's to many rides with the top down, wind in your hair & the  hammer down.  :drag: :brnout: :drive:

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 07:25:19 PM »
I never used a torque wrench on those.  Just made sure the same amount of threads are showing on all 4 bolts. 

Check to see how many threads showing.
Try to tighten the ones that have less threads showing.
If this isn't possible, loosen the others a little and then tighten each one evenly down. 

Clean the inside of the cover and reinstall, check in a few days again.  If there is more soot, re-tighten again.  If you cannot tighten, then the gasket may have a blow by or not installed at all.

The turbo/CAT bolts should have been tightened down before the brackets on the bottom (bracket mounts to engine on bottom)  If this procedure wasn't followed, there may be too much pressure against the CAT to allow it to seat properly to the turbo.

Offline tazz

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2010, 10:31:13 PM »
BTW where would one get the gasket?
When I went catless there did not seem to be any type of gasket between the turbo and the cat.  The shop thought the gasket might be stuck to the cat but it looks like it was welded to the cat flange.  The shop made a gasket out of some gasket material and it's worked so far but would like the correct gasket on.  Even the Pontiac dealer didnt know what gasket the shop was talking about so if anyone knows the PN for that gasket please let me know.
Thanks

Offline DigiSol

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Offline tazz

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2010, 10:58:52 PM »
Thanks will order one.
The shop originally ordered what they thought was the correct gasket only to findout it was the wrong one.  Then they were going to reuse the old gasket but didnt find any such gasket and then thought it might just be a ring gasket but didnt see anything there.  I was there the whole time watching and helping them take the cat off and didnt see anything resembling that gasket.   The gasket was not stuck to the turbo flange either and as far as I can remeber when taking off the heat shield I didnt ever notice any gasket piece between the cat or turbo flange that I could notice or see.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 11:03:53 PM by tazz »

Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 04:21:58 AM »
i have contacted Steve to send me a turbo-dp gasket, coz i think this is the most appropriate since i have the Solo dp.
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline MEGAS

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2010, 04:41:52 AM »
from the pics you posted i see there is no gap between turbo and downpipe.
Normally if you have the updated gasket from Solo there is a gap of about 0.4cm between turbo/dp.
..just curious if you have overtightened the 4 screws...
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Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2010, 04:48:21 AM »
Megas, you think that the screws have been overtightened and "killed" the gasket?
i am afraid that the mechanic hasn t placed any gasket there... i am counting on Solo and Steve to send me a new gasket.
till i have this in my hands and have a tune from Vince, the car stays still...
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

Offline MEGAS

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2010, 04:53:07 AM »
anyway,we'll wait..but usually they do install a gasket unless they use some sort of "glue" that air tights the area...

...this big wheel project ..is it going to remove low end grunt a bit upper..?
07 Opel GT with:EDS tune(320ps),Dejon i/c,Solo 3" mach exhaust,Solo 3" downpipe,K&N air filter,KW V3 Suspension.

Offline Arabas

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Re: Big wheel turbo project
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 05:05:52 AM »
one more question, the bolts connecting the turbo-dp need to be replaced or can i re-use them?
Megas, i haven't got the slighest idea on how much i will gain and if it will spool faster or not.

for the moment, i have to deal with solving the leakage problem and then when i get a tune, i will be able to see how it works.
DDM Works Backbone and probeam
H&R springs
SOLO HF Cat and Mach Shorty
Dejon Throttle Elbow
Dejon-AEM intake
Front Big Brake upgrade kit with Ferodo pads
Trifecta tune
Custom IC and pipes
LVKFCB

 

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