Author Topic: 3" pipings....... (Read 21161 times)

SKY888 · « **on:** February 26, 2011, 06:04:54 PM »

Will there really be a big difference if the LNF engine has all 3" pipings and 3" inlet and outlec IC COMPARED to just getting 2.5" all the way????

I was just wondering, since even if you upgrade to 3" pipings and an IC with 3" inlet/outlet....................you will still have a bottleneck (2.5") piping going to the TB.

thoughts?

gmtech16450yz · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:15:11 PM »

Quote from: SKY888 on February 26, 2011, 06:04:54 PM

Will there really be a big difference if the LNF engine has all 3" pipings and 3" inlet and outlec IC COMPARED to just getting 2.5" all the way????

I was just wondering, since even if you upgrade to 3" pipings and an IC with 3" inlet/outlet....................you will still have a bottleneck (2.5") piping going to the TB.

thoughts?

Get rid of the TB bottleneck. Tony your setup is a perfect candidate for the LE5 throttle body and opening up the intake manifold to match up with the bigger TB. DO IT!

(There George, are you happy?

)

SKY888 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:17:54 PM »

gmtech.......SMG and I were talking about this last Friday.

That's exactly what we were discussing about. He has one at the shop and held it right beside the intake manifold........and I smiled

We are hoping that the LE5 TB and porting the intake mani...........will not give us troubles with air velocity and stuff.....though

gmtech16450yz · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:28:50 PM »

Been running the LE5 throttle body on my setup for quite awhile now. Go ahead and take the opening in the manifold almost all the way to the channel for the o-ring. I also cut out the "tube" going into the manifold at the TB opening. I opened the TB opening to where the aluminum holding the o-ring from going into the manifold was VERY thin. Just strong enough to hold the o-ring in place is what you want.

The LE5 TB is plug and play after that, just adjust your DAL's and MALT's to compensate for the bigger TB. (I'm running quite a bit lower than stock DALs in the midrange to control throttle response.)

SKY888 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:34:31 PM »

oh wow! That's great advise bro! thanks!

why did u decide to go with LE5 TB?

were u already running 3" pipings and wana remove any bottlenecks?

were u able to compare the improvements before and after the replacement of TB in regards to whp and driveability?

thank you!

gmtech16450yz · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:45:51 PM »

I went just about opposite of you guys with the big turbos, I still have the stock turbo but have done everything else, including internal engine and head work. Running meth and E47 also. If somebody gets a manifold solution for the new Borg Warner turbos I may finally go big, but the car runs so damn strong now I'm not sure if I'll ever do the turbo swap.

Driveability on the LE5 is excellent as long as whoever is doing your tuning knows how to work the DAL's. One of the name brand vendors tried the LE5 TB awhile back and said it's not a good swap I (me personally) believe because of two things, it was before the GM tune changes came out and I believe they didn't know how to work the DAL's and MALT's and torque tables properly.

Hog the cr#p out of the intake and give it a go! BTW, you can get about 50% of the change by just bolting on the LE5 TB without even pulling the intake off or porting it. It won't flow as well with the smaller intake opening but it will work.

SKY888 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:49:10 PM »

what do you mean by "before the GM tune changes came out?"

gmtech16450yz · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:52:20 PM »

I think they tried the bigger throttle body a couple years ago, before the GMPP tune and people figuring out how to get around the torque limiting of the Bosch ECM.

Yeah, that was a little misleading. I basically meant before we all figured out how to make bolt-ons work without learning back to lower boost or power. I believe they did end up trying it again later with a bigger turbo setup and did get 6 or 10hp off just the TB and intake change.

SKY888 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:53:59 PM »

oh gotcha!

thanks for everything!!!

kennysabarese · « **Reply #9 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:59:53 PM »

In all my research about charge pipes from Garrett's site, and other searching, I have yet to find a formula to help you determine the size of charge pipe that you are supposed to use for certain power levels.

For 400HP Garrett says that 2.5ID is correct. But they don't give the formula to find what is best for other power levels.

Brad Kenny · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26, 2011, 07:04:59 PM »

GMtech, good to see your back!

1LILNDN · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2011, 07:31:59 PM »

Kenny ; My Friend J.Grust aka(Mr Hemi) Has been in the Hot Rod Power Tour for the Last 4 years .Has an 84 Lincoln Towncar w/Built 5.0 . His Piping is 4 inch But not sure what size T/C he's running Look him up under the Power Tour or (Hot Rod Lincoln) He may explain how he sized His . I do know he Made his Own. Check it Out

Oh and This Lincoln does wheel Stands on Street Tires ( daily Driver ) If You e-mail him he may have the Answers you need and want.

NormSky · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2011, 07:51:08 PM »

There aftermarket TB for the LE5. I have one on my car. It was put on by the previous owner nd don't know who made it.

SKY888 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2011, 09:12:49 PM »

I think a stock LE5 TB will be enough for me......just to remove that bottleneck

Arabas · « **Reply #14 on:** February 27, 2011, 07:06:03 AM »

John (gmtech) it's great to have you back!! thx for your advice about LE5 TB!!!
i won't go too deep with technical advice since the answers have already been given and i m no expert for sure.
just to say that i went with 3" pipes with my new IC just because it was the same price as going with 2" or 2,5"..didn't know though i should swap to a LE5 TB.
maybe when i get a big turbo kit

Dave@DDMworks · « **Reply #15 on:** February 27, 2011, 12:06:52 PM »

It would be interesting to see if anyone else can get any dyno changes with a larger throttle body on the LNF. We tested a 2008-2009 LE5 throttle body on the LNF and it picked up 0HP on the dyno, even after playing with the tune, and that was on the 2871 turbo car, which really surprised me, considering the difference in the size of the stock vs. the LE5 throttle body.

For those that have not seen them the stock LNF throttle body uses a blade 2.25" in diameter and the stock LE5 throttle body is 2.5" in diameter, so it is a noticeable difference. Also as a side note the "big throttle bodies" we have seen for the LE5 are the same size as stock when measured, all that is done is some smoothing to the throttle body and a different color plate installed.

Hope that helps,
Dave

spider · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2011, 12:29:53 PM »

Being boosted I'm not surprised there would not be a noticeable gain there.I would think intake speed & exhaust volume may be better. I would like to see some one bump the exhaust valves size a tad. Affordable cams would be swell too.

SKY888 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2011, 05:23:45 PM »

Quote from: Dave@DDMworks on February 27, 2011, 12:06:52 PM

It would be interesting to see if anyone else can get any dyno changes with a larger throttle body on the LNF. We tested a 2008-2009 LE5 throttle body on the LNF and it picked up 0HP on the dyno, even after playing with the tune, and that was on the 2871 turbo car, which really surprised me, considering the difference in the size of the stock vs. the LE5 throttle body.

For those that have not seen them the stock LNF throttle body uses a blade 2.25" in diameter and the stock LE5 throttle body is 2.5" in diameter, so it is a noticeable difference. Also as a side note the "big throttle bodies" we have seen for the LE5 are the same size as stock when measured, all that is done is some smoothing to the throttle body and a different color plate installed.

Hope that helps,
Dave

HI Dave, with that LE5 TB that you guys used, did you use straight 3" pipings and 3" ic inlet/outlet as well?

also, were the DALs and MALTs also adjusted?

yeah, I don't have any intentions getting the aftermarket LE5 TB.......I just want the stock LE5 TB, to avoid any bottlenecks using 3" OD all the way....

SKY888 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2011, 06:04:16 PM »

Quote from: spider on February 27, 2011, 12:29:53 PM

Being boosted I'm not surprised there would not be a noticeable gain there.I would think intake speed & exhaust volume may be better. I would like to see some one bump the exhaust valves size a tad. Affordable cams would be swell too.

I'll be using oversized supertech valves during my build.

There is an existing LNF cams out there. But the vendor is currently not selling them alone. You have to buy their ported head/cams/tune......for $2000. I don't need their tune and head....just the cams, so I'm still waiting til they decide to sell just the cams....

LatinVenom · « **Reply #19 on:** February 27, 2011, 07:44:54 PM »

SKY888,
I think DAve answered your question with the line that says

Quote

"even after paying with the tune"

SKY888 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2011, 08:13:28 PM »

Quote from: LatinVenom on February 27, 2011, 07:44:54 PM

SKY888,
I think DAve answered your question with the line that says

yup he did. But not sure if he played on both MALTs and DALs.

gmtech worked on those and seems to be happy with the results

ZZP played with those, and I believe they got 8 horses.

Graywolf · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2011, 10:45:50 PM »

I think 2.5 " piping is large enough for a little two liter engine. If you double the size of the engine 4liter and tubing it would equal 5" piping. A 6 liter engine would have 7.5 " piping. You would be better off adding a half inch to something else according to your wifes!

Gentleman Jack · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2011, 03:33:31 AM »

Quote from: Graywolf on February 27, 2011, 10:45:50 PM

I think 2.5 " piping is large enough for a little two liter engine. If you double the size of the engine 4liter and tubing it would equal 5" piping. A 6 liter engine would have 7.5 " piping. You would be better off adding a half inch to something else according to your wifes!

Gray wolf,
That's not entirely correct. Area of a circle is pie r sq'd

So double the area of a 2.5 inch pipe would actually be a 3.5" pipe. Not so out of the question. For the 6 litre engine, pipe would be 4.3"

About the adding a half inch to something else, I can only assume you are talking about the heels on her boots.... Or the thickness of your wallet...

GJ

SKY888 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2011, 07:20:20 AM »

With my compound turbo build..........when my secondary turbo (small turbo) is at 15 psi, my 2 liter works like a 4 liter. At 30 psi, a 6 liter. This is why I can run a T4 turbine on the primary (big turbo).

That's why I need at least 3" tubing.

A 2.5" tubing will be too restrictive.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2011, 12:47:06 PM »

I haven't seen anywhere that displacement has anything to do with charge tube size....

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Author Topic: 3" pipings....... (Read 21161 times)