Topic: Fuel pump output volume

[snaponbob]

Does anybody actually know the output volume of the GXP/Redline in tank fuel pump?

[shabby]

No idea on the actual output numbers but its capable of flowing a lot, zzp mentioned he was still on the stock in-tank pump when he made 530whp with e85.

[snaponbob]

No idea on the actual output numbers but its capable of flowing a lot, zzp mentioned he was still on the stock in-tank pump when he made 530whp with e85.

And they told me today that the stock tank pump and high pressure pump are not up the task !!!!!!!!!!! Go figure. It may be that they are getting big numbers out of Cobalts, and THEY may have tank pumps that deliver more fuel than the Walbro does.

[kennysabarese]

Check out this Bosch PDF I ran into the other day on the BB:

Increased capability in the fuel pump: 3-lobe, 0.9cc/rev4-lobe, 1.1cc/rev

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Program/213/Teleseminars/Hakan%20Yilmaz%20%28Bosch%29%203-1-11.pdf

Page 14

Enjoy

[Arabas]

don't know about the output of the LPFP, but from what i read and from what Vince says, it must be the weakest link

[DeepBlueGXP]

If the guys with the new turbo upgrades that are getting 350 to the wheels aren't having and issues, then your fuel pump should be keeping up to the task with your tune.

If it's not keeping up to the task, then it's a bad fuel pump.

[Arabas]

Joe, i think this would depend on how much boost he is making.
if the upgraded turbos work at lower boost 9and still making more power) than a really hard pushed K04, then the pump would not be sufficient for the K04

[DeepBlueGXP]

I disagree, if the new turbos are pushing more HP, that means more fuel. 

[Arabas]

i respect your opinion and you are most probable right..
i was just saying this because with upgraded wheel K04 i once hit 32-33 psi and there was fuel starvation. but i certainly wasn't making more power than the 2871 guys.

pls feel free to   me if i am saying BS here

ps SoB, maybe werks can give you the info on the stock lpfp, since they have released upgrades for it..

[kennysabarese]

ZZP hasn't had problems with the LPFP, even with an upgraded HPFP.

Here is their HPFP, probably very similar to what is in the PDF I posted a few minutes ago.

http://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_ion/whatsnew1.php?id=66

[Arabas]

ZZP hasn't had problems with the LPFP, even with an upgraded HPFP.

Here is their HPFP, probably very similar to what is in the PDF I posted a few minutes ago.

http://www.zzperformance.com/cobalt_ion/whatsnew1.php?id=66

great news and great price!!!

[snaponbob]

There are some aspects of some posts above that might need some input.

1) E85 has about 1/2 the latent heat of gasoline, and thus a LOT more of it is required than gasoline.
2) Engines with bigger turbos producing more power DO require more gas, but the issue at hand is with E85.
3) ZZP has told me (yesterday) that the Walbro tank pump will NOT flow more than existing LNF pumps. But, (and this is possibly important) this pertained to Cobalt SS and HHR SS. They could not say if this was so with the roadsters. They do NOT know what difference there may be between the roadster and FWD LNF tank pumps. The part numbers are different, but those numbers are for the assemblies, not just the pumps. Keep in mind, ZZP seem to be focused on the Chevy LNF's, eve though they own a GXP and Redline. The fellow on the phone told me they have done very little with them, and admitted all their published info is for Balts and HHRs.
4) The new HP pump is NOT ready, but they ARE working on it. A BUNCH of questions were asked about my in tank pump, and other stuff. They are, rightly, being cautious. This is the part of the conversation that centered on the tank pump.    

Right now, there may not be a "right" solution. I know that I am not the only LNF roadster with the higher rpm power loss issue, as I have been trading e-mails with some others that are autocrossing with E85. Some have switched back to gas. Exchanges of PMs on a Cobalt forum indicates that Balts are not immune to fuel feed problems as well.

Confused? Me, too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[joshmass]

We're all chasing the same information it appears.

[Imaj]

My Local Trifecta tuner guy has the same problem with his E85 Cobalt. He was racing an 09 Cobra and staying with him until he hit the high RMP's in 4th. Then it fell flat.

Would E85 and Meth do the trick?

[Kelu]

Why you, racing people, don't go with 109 race gas I don't understand.
Around here, a 5 gal barrel of 109 octane gas costs $240, I'm pretty sure is far cheaper over there and for a race you don't need more than 5 gallons, doesn't worth $200 investment for a race?

Using this gas you gain same power as from E85 but you hit the fuel limitation at least 20% later than E85.

If this gas is illegal in your races, than ignore my reply.

[elff]

i respect your opinion and you are most probable right..
i was just saying this because with upgraded wheel K04 i once hit 32-33 psi and there was fuel starvation. but i certainly wasn't making more power than the 2871 guys.

pls feel free to  me if i am saying BS here

ps SoB, maybe werks can give you the info on the stock lpfp, since they have released upgrades for it..

Arabas
us 2871 peeps are hitting 25psi.
I'm not having any starvation issues and definitely have much more power than previously.

Kelu
I dont understand the whole E85 craze here.  I know you can get alot more power, but the hassle is not worth it to me.

[2.0 tspeed]

The issue is in the tunes and pumps themselves. Some guys pumps run fine and some crap out in 4th.

[snaponbob]

WOW !!!!!!  Let's see ------------

@ slowsol .......... Yes. For the guys chasing cones the situation is a bit different than dyno runs and illegal speeds on the highway.
@ elff ............... Premium is over $3.50/gal, 100 race gas is a) hard to find in some areas, b) north of ~$7.00/gal, and c) E85 is sub $3.00/gal. Hassle is relative. Have you seen what the results of E85 are at the wheels? I have FELT it, and it makes a 100 octane tuned LNF feel like 2.4.
@ Kelu ............. I know for a fact that while 110 race fuel can produce a lot of power, it is not close to E85.
@ Imaj ............. Add meth to E85 and the situation may get WORSE, not better.

[LatinVenom]

With race gas you also do not need to push more fuel.
I have never had an issue with my Upgraded wheel turbo and starvation of gas.

[tazz]

Off on a tangent post.
The way I see it all depends on how your going to use your vehicle just do your research and pick your poison to whats best suited for you.   There will be Pros and Cons to each and there really is no right wrong answer just what your willing to gain, loose and cost but it really needs to be based on what your planning to do with your vehicle.  
I'm going to pick on SOB for the moment and say who would have ever thought that he would be using E85 from the way he talked less than 6mos ago but it seems that while he may still have negative thoughts about E85 for his situation right now that was his best choice. NOW while that may change for right now he kept an open mind and despite his feelings is using E85.  

[snaponbob]

With race gas you also do not need to push more fuel.
I have never had an issue with my Upgraded wheel turbo and starvation of gas.

True, but NOTHING like E85.

[elff]

Bob

I've seen the results and while impressive, they are not for me.  I'm already at my cars traction limitation and at my engines GO BOOM limitation.
Spinning wheels is going nowhere fast.  I can already do that. Please note, I no longer have a stock Turbo, so your comparison isn't quite as dramatic in my instance.
Here are the not worth it reasons.

Closest station is 1hr from me, so 2hr round trip just to fill up, and/or purchase a container to fill up and bring home.
Need a Special tune
and
Needed to swap tunes when I run out of home supply and can't get to above station.
Will run out of fuel earlier and need to fill up more. 
Time is money, and I value my time very highly.

So the gains don't outweigh the cons for me. 

I'm glad your happy with it and I hope you work out your fuel pump and tune issues. 

But E85 just is not for me.

[snaponbob]

Off on a tangent post.
The way I see it all depends on how your going to use your vehicle just do your research and pick your poison to whats best suited for you.   There will be Pros and Cons to each and there really is no right wrong answer just what your willing to gain, loose and cost but it really needs to be based on what your planning to do with your vehicle.  
I'm going to pick on SOB for the moment and say who would have ever thought that he would be using E85 from the way he talked less than 6mos ago but it seems that while he may still have negative thoughts about E85 for his situation right now that was his best choice. NOW while that may change for right now he kept an open mind and despite his feelings is using E85.  

Thanks. I STILL hate ethanol, but SCCA deems it "pump gas", the tunes came available, and I saw no option than to use it. The fastest cars in my class (Evo's) use E85 to produce 395 whp and MORE wtq. I actually petitioned SCCA to ban it in all classes from Street Prepared on down unless the car is a certified Flex Fuel car, but it was turned down. If they ever accept my petition, I will be happy to go back to 100.

[snaponbob]

Bob

I've seen the results and while impressive, they are not for me.  I'm already at my cars traction limitation and at my engines GO BOOM limitation.
Spinning wheels is going nowhere fast.  I can already do that. Please note, I no longer have a stock Turbo, so your comparison isn't quite as dramatic in my instance.
Here are the not worth it reasons.

Closest station is 1hr from me, so 2hr round trip just to fill up, and/or purchase a container to fill up and bring home.
Need a Special tune
and
Needed to swap tunes when I run out of home supply and can't get to above station.
Will run out of fuel earlier and need to fill up more. 
Time is money, and I value my time very highly.

So the gains don't outweigh the cons for me. 

I'm glad your happy with it and I hope you work out your fuel pump and tune issues. 

But E85 just is not for me.

ALL 100% valid. If E85 was not a couple miles away, I am not sure what I would be doing.

[2.0 tspeed]

I take it snap you are always in the high rpms at the track, constantly. I suspect the combo of e85 tune and being in the high rpms almost the whole time you might have worn out your pump and it mIght need to b replaced
Btw Lolz gmtech trollin on cobalt forums