Author Topic: Koni dampers (Read 15374 times)

kennysabarese · « **Reply #50 on:** August 17, 2011, 08:11:43 AM »

At that point might as well just buy the KWv3 coilovers, they are like 1,700 bucks

snaponbob · « **Reply #51 on:** August 17, 2011, 09:02:23 AM »

Not really, Kenny. The first thing that will be needed for the KW V3 is different rear springs as they are too light. If I could ever find a shop that was prepared to service and revalve the V3's I would be tempted to buy them. As is, 2.5" springs for the Konis are readily available (new and used) which makes tuning easy.

elff · « **Reply #52 on:** August 17, 2011, 09:08:02 AM »

HK's are better suited to our car. They were developed with Rhys for his Drift Solstice before he moved on to the Hyndai

DrJones · « **Reply #53 on:** August 17, 2011, 09:24:09 AM »

Quote from: elff on August 17, 2011, 09:08:02 AM

HK's are better suited to our car. They were developed with Rhys for his Drift Solstice before he moved on to the Hyndai

i'm gussing they're not even close to Rhys' drift set-up. That would be horrible for the street/average consumer.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #54 on:** August 17, 2011, 09:44:14 AM »

Shit. Look what I started. Sorry guys. This is way off track...

elff · « **Reply #55 on:** August 17, 2011, 09:45:33 AM »

I am sure the variation sold to the public are different, but the point being, they were designed in conjunction with someone who is intimately knowledgable on our vehicles.

Quite unlike EIBACH who think the Skys have completely different suspensions than the solstices.

elff · « **Reply #56 on:** August 17, 2011, 09:46:45 AM »

KAPPA Drift team strikes again

kennysabarese · « **Reply #57 on:** August 17, 2011, 10:08:02 AM »

Quote from: elff on August 17, 2011, 09:45:33 AM

I am sure the variation sold to the public are different, but the point being, they were designed in conjunction with someone who is intimately knowledgable on our vehicles.

Quite unlike EIBACH who think the Skys have completely different suspensions than the solstices.

So you think that companies like Koni, KW and BC don't have qualified staff to develop suspensions? Rhys Millen, though a superhero to us because he drove a kappa, isn't the only good driver out there. I don't know how much of an expert suspension developer he is. I mean he could be a great driver, but that doesn't mean I want him to build my car.

Also I don't necessarily trust how much he "developed" them. I mean there are tons of corporate "partnerships" out there which are just for marketing. The only way racers can race is if they are sponsored, and they'll say anything for that sponsorship.

I don't mean to come down on the product, they are probably great. But they may not be any better than anything else out there.

I know no body did more safety testing than GM. But I know many of you don't trust them, so choose what you wish.

Critterman · « **Reply #58 on:** August 17, 2011, 10:23:44 AM »

I like my KS, bit harsh on the bumps but they do keep the car on the road, and if I set the rears hard I can pretend to be a drifter without a problem

elff · « **Reply #59 on:** August 17, 2011, 10:41:50 AM »

You are making an interpretation that I did not say or infer.
Take exactly what I typed which is
EIBACH doesn't know squat about our cars. After speaking with them I DO NOT think they have qualified staff in regards to our car.
If they did, they would not manufacture rear springs with lighter spring rates than the fronts.
See the attached document listing every GM shock and spring combination for the kappas.
Not a single one has the Rear Springs being lighter than the front springs.
This document was posted by Flashes Owner.
I did not make any statements in regards to Koni or BC and I did not say anything negative in regards to KW.

I'd have to search for a post 2+ years old, if it still exists even, in which it was discussed that Rhys Millen racing helped develop the HKs. Not sure if he was sponsored or not by them.
DDM installed a bunch of these a couple of Mod Meets ago as well as weight balancing the cars and aligning them to get results.
So far the best non autoX dedicated or track dedicated street suspension kappa that I have had the personal experience of driving had the HK's [Critterman]

I am going to stick with the Koni's myself but believe they will pair better with the lower ZOK springs than the taller GM SPO springs I currently have on them. That is another thread which has all the details.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #60 on:** August 17, 2011, 10:46:24 AM »

I completely agree with you on the Eibach's so I didn't respond directly to that statement because I couldn't add anything more to it

But by saying that you think HKS are designed for our car, you are implying that the others are not. That's what I was responding to.

elff · « **Reply #61 on:** August 17, 2011, 10:49:33 AM »

Just because I think the HKs are better
doesn't mean that I stated or implied in anyway whatsoever that the other brands were not designed for the kappa

that is something you are adding.

2 products can be designed for an application. Stating or having an opinion that one is better than the other does not remove the fact that both were still designed for that application.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #62 on:** August 17, 2011, 10:52:46 AM »

I apologize for misinterpreting

elff · « **Reply #63 on:** August 17, 2011, 11:03:08 AM »

Less starbucks!!!

kennysabarese · « **Reply #64 on:** August 17, 2011, 11:04:11 AM »

I don't drink coffee. I'm just this way all the time!

elff · « **Reply #65 on:** August 17, 2011, 11:05:21 AM »

snaponbob · « **Reply #66 on:** August 17, 2011, 02:46:08 PM »

FWIW, I think that Eibach and KW have done exactly the same thing when they selected springs --- computer modeled the suspension WITHOUT factoring the sway bars. Thus, softer rear springs. I would interested in knowing what BC, HKS, and others have supplied on their sets.

elff · « **Reply #67 on:** August 17, 2011, 03:17:01 PM »

Eibach said it was because the engine is in the front of the car and the springs have to hold more weight.

They obviously never looked at the car specs which state a 52/48 weight distribution.

snaponbob · « **Reply #68 on:** August 17, 2011, 05:13:23 PM »

Quote from: elff on August 17, 2011, 03:17:01 PM

Eibach said it was because the engine is in the front of the car and the springs have to hold more weight.

They obviously never looked at the car specs which state a 52/48 weight distribution.

Isn't it great yo speak with a phone clerk that knows NOTHING about their product ??? Assuming NO sway bars, heavier springs up front would probably be correct, but not THAT much heavier. AND, without bars, the Eibach springs would be dramatically too soft at BOTH ends.

DrJones · « **Reply #69 on:** August 18, 2011, 07:03:40 AM »

FWIW my front springs are 100 lbs higher in the front than the rears.

And yes this goes against conventional design to use a higher natural frequency (NF) in the rear than the front.

One reason the OE's use a higher NF in the rear than the front is due to the time it takes each axle to settle from hitting a bump/road disturbance.
If the rear NF is higher it will settle (e.g. stop occilating) about the same time the front does.

If the rear NF was the same or lower than the front, the passengers in the car would feel the front settle and then the rear settle. This generally is an unpleasant feeling for the occupants of the car.

Why do my spring rates work for me? we'll engineering is working with assumptions, trade-offs and application.

I started running my car with the spring rates the other way (100lbs more in the rear). Flipped them and found I get more bite comming out of the corners with the softer in the rear. This really helps in auto-x (e.g. application).
But my car really isn't very good for long rides on the street.

kennysabarese · « **Reply #70 on:** August 18, 2011, 08:42:38 AM »

Quote from: DrJones on August 18, 2011, 07:03:40 AM

FWIW my front springs are 100 lbs higher in the front than the rears.

And yes this goes against conventional design to use a higher natural frequency (NF) in the rear than the front.

One reason the OE's use a higher NF in the rear than the front is due to the time it takes each axle to settle from hitting a bump/road disturbance.
If the rear NF is higher it will settle (e.g. stop occilating) about the same time the front does.

If the rear NF was the same or lower than the front, the passengers in the car would feel the front settle and then the rear settle. This generally is an unpleasant feeling for the occupants of the car.

Why do my spring rates work for me? we'll engineering is working with assumptions, trade-offs and application.

I started running my car with the spring rates the other way (100lbs more in the rear). Flipped them and found I get more bite comming out of the corners with the softer in the rear. This really helps in auto-x (e.g. application).
But my car really isn't very good for long rides on the street.

Thanks for that. Great info.

elff · « **Reply #71 on:** August 18, 2011, 08:51:35 AM »

I can confirm this with the hibachis.
Traction was better, but the rear would slam down on drop offs

NormSky · « **Reply #72 on:** August 18, 2011, 09:34:49 AM »

Quote from: elff on August 17, 2011, 03:17:01 PM

Eibach said it was because the engine is in the front of the car and the springs have to hold more weight.

They obviously never looked at the car specs which state a 52/48 weight distribution.

Who balances their car without the big American?

Arabas · « **Reply #73 on:** August 18, 2011, 10:21:10 AM »

Quote from: elff on August 17, 2011, 03:17:01 PM

Eibach said it was because the engine is in the front of the car and the springs have to hold more weight.

They obviously never looked at the car specs which state a 52/48 weight distribution.

if i have understood correctly, you guys are talking about why the rear springs are a bit softer than the fronts and why they don't lower the car as much as the front ones?
well, for this, one more thing to consider is that these springs were not designed 100% for the track but for overall use. this means that a kappa can have these springs and FULLY LOAD the trunk with heavy stuff. in this case we need the rears to be higher and a bit softer, otherwise the wheels would rub against the well

elff · « **Reply #74 on:** August 18, 2011, 10:52:09 AM »

Did you mean stiffer.
If you load the trunk up with softer springs, the rear will sag.

I do understand what you are saying.
Using Jeep as an example. If you order a Jeep with a hardtop, due to the increased weight, compared to the soft top, they ship and install stiffer rear springs to support that weight.

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Author Topic: Koni dampers (Read 15374 times)