Topic: Clutch Question (among other things).. what to do?

[miller11386]

I am debating on a motor build either this winter or within the next 2 years. From what I understand, the stock trans should be capable up to 600hp, so I am thinking of sticking to that limit on the motor build.

Keeping that in mind, I need to have a clutch put in at some point. I know a ton of people have SPEC 3+ and like everything but the engagement point. The ACT also has good reviews, but is higher in price. However the spec limit is like 568 tq. ACT is under 500.. Which isnt going to take a ton of abuse at 600 hp.

However I am wanting more of a twin/triple disk setup to accommodate future plans. Does anyone make a twin or triple disk clutch that will mate to the LNF? How can I look to see what would fit an LNF? is it a specific bolt pattern like wheels?


Any help is appreciated

[Critterman]

Talk to DDM, they have a lot of info
Werks may have as well, I just don't know

[miller11386]

Obviously I will discuss it with Dave at the open house. I was just curious if I was missing something obvious.

I want at least a twin disk so I can actually launch the thing and not have to buy a clutch every 10k miles.

[snaponbob]

Obviously I will discuss it with Dave at the open house. I was just curious if I was missing something obvious.

I want at least a twin disk so I can actually launch the thing and not have to buy a clutch every 10k miles.

A few comments.
1) You can have all the power in the world, but SOMETHING will "slip" first. At launch the limit will be traction. If you have LOTS of traction (slicks) the clutch becomes a greater concern. Once into higher gears, traction becomes less of an issue and clutch grip becomes a greater factor.
2) Unless you have a complete monster under the hood, something along the lines of a Spec 4 should be plenty. Realistically. if a Spec 4 can't handle it, you should start becoming concerned with drive and half shafts holding up !!!
3) Does anybody actually make a multi-disk clutch for the Kappas?

[miller11386]

A few comments.
1) You can have all the power in the world, but SOMETHING will "slip" first. At launch the limit will be traction. If you have LOTS of traction (slicks) the clutch becomes a greater concern. Once into higher gears, traction becomes less of an issue and clutch grip becomes a greater factor.
2) Unless you have a complete monster under the hood, something along the lines of a Spec 4 should be plenty. Realistically. if a Spec 4 can't handle it, you should start becoming concerned with drive and half shafts holding up !!!
3) Does anybody actually make a multi-disk clutch for the Kappas?

1) yes I know, I plan to run slicks at the track, and possibly a wide body in the short future similar to Spikeys
2) Trying to look at a 600hp motor, so yeah a monster
3)Not sure if one exists, thats why im asking

[snaponbob]

Not sure if you have a 2.4 or 2.0, but the ACT units (IIRC) for the 2.0 do not work. Incorrect stack height. On Specs site, the Spec 5 is rated at 490 tq on the 2.4 while the 5 is rated at 815 tq on the 2.0. WTF, huh?

[miller11386]

Yeah I figure if I need to throw a clutch in, it may be a good.time to build the motor. Just gotta get all the pcs right and ill be ready to start

Clutch is the biggest question in my mind... I want one that would hold up to some drag runs ad well as be drivable. A multi disc clutch is optimal for this, but idk if any would work or not :/

[SKY888]

no twin discs out there, unfortunately.

already talked to SPEC about building me one, but the issue will be streetability of the twin disc that will fit and will work with our application.      It will not be streetable......and will only last a few thousand miles.


your comment about spec stage 3+ only handling 568 tq is wrong.   It can handle up to 688

stage 4 (spec) can only handle 618 tq.

so Spec 3+ is the most ideal since it will last longer on the streets compared to 4 and 5, and can handle tons of tq (688).

[miller11386]

Thanks SKY888, I figured you already looked at this type of thing.

Spec 3+ will probably be the route I end up with, however I hope the werks spacer does the trick to fix the engagement point. Not wild about having a near floor engagement.

[SKY888]

yeah, I bugged them early this summer about building me a mini-twin disc.

Unfortunately, they told me that if I'll daily drive my car, the mini twin disc will not work for me since the material being used will not last.   But it will be good in launching at drag race events

I told them that I want to drive my car on a regular basis on the street.    They told me stage 3+ is the best so far.    688 tq capacity is already up there, and not a lot of street car will get that tq.   Plenty enough for most cars.

 I cryo-treated mine so it will have that extra longevity tho 

Try asking Dave about the spacer they offer..........if that's the answer to the engagement point issue.

[SKY888]

600hp build?   what turbo will you be using?   

try to get an EFR turbo.  It spools fastest compared to any other turbo.................especially if you want 600hp from a single big turbo.   You dont want to have a very laggy car on the streets.

the gt35 I used to have is "ok" on the streets, but anything bigger than that (if not efr)....you'll feel the lag soooo much.


unless of course, you want to stroke your 2 liter to a 2.4 liters.  Then that's a different story

good luck with the future build

[snaponbob]

Thanks SKY888, I figured you already looked at this type of thing.

Spec 3+ will probably be the route I end up with, however I hope the werks spacer does the trick to fix the engagement point. Not wild about having a near floor engagement.

Miller, are you building a 2.4 or 2.0? As I mentioned earlier, the chart shows different torque ratings for the various levels on the different engines. As for the spacer, based on what I went through, be cautious with the spacer. As a refresher, my setup was suffering the low pedal syndrome and self corrected. Spec lists SAC and non-SAC part numbers yet they told me that they no longer ship SAC systems (even though the parts I received were SAC part number labelled) !!!!!! I would assume you would use the Spec light flywheel, and it will come with its own spacer. If the Werks spacer is installed as well, you'll need longer bolts. Assuming NO air in the system and a "proper" pedal, there is no telling where the pedal action will be. For drag racing, lower is better (within reason) for good reaction time, but worse for quick shifts.

Sure wish I knew went wrong with my install and what happened to correct it. Good luck.

[kennysabarese]

With the shitty clutch options available to us, the first thing I'd wanna swap in this car is the trans.

[miller11386]

I am thinking about building up my 2.0 and adding the ZZP cam for more fuel. New rods, slugs, springs and retainers, neutral balance shaft (of balance shaft elimination) and do a bit of porting in the head.

Turbo I am thinking a big EFR or some form of a modified garrett 35R. I dont necessarily want a drag car, but im sure I will end up running it down the strip a bit.

Trans should be OK with 550-600hp (I hope lol)

[kennysabarese]

the vendor you reference has a nice ported head and cam package. and an efr kit on the way

[miller11386]

Yeah I think even the bigger EFR kit 6758 turbo may be a bit weak lb/min wise. Shows a max efficient rating of 49 lb min... which will leave me short of my goal.... I will have to do some research and see if they make a bigger one..

Probably going for a 35R variant if I have to guess. I really havent got that far into it yet though. I am waiting to talk to DDM dave at the open house and see what he thinks is the best route

[miller11386]

EFR 7670 looks tempting

http://www.theboostlab.com/store/products/EFR%252d7670-.html

[kennysabarese]

if you want to be solidly in the 600hp range might as well go with the 8374

[SKY888]

I wont waste my money with the "modified gt35"  or even the GTX-35r.

go with the big EFR turbos that you already mentioned!

the s1 cams w/ upgraded fuel lobe of that vendor will NOT provide enough fuel to support 600hp.    Matt already talked to me about it.   You still need a new set of injector/s to add fuel

if you are only going w/ 450whp, you're fine with the extra 20% fuel that the s2 cams w/ upgraded fuel lobes.    But 600........you're on a different ball park

[miller11386]

But I dont wanna go much over 600 crank hp. I am not looking to replace half shafts, drive shafts or the trans. Plus the Spec 3+ doesnt hold much more than that anyway

[miller11386]

ughhh I really dont want to do stand alone fuel, but I guess I may have to.

I thought ZZP was working on a modified HPFP to get more fuel in the rails as well? It has been on their site for a while now...

[kennysabarese]

But I dont wanna go much over 600 crank hp. I am not looking to replace half shafts, drive shafts or the trans. Plus the Spec 3+ doesnt hold much more than that anyway

So don't. 600hp is in the middle of the power range for the bigger turbo.  you don't want to be on the edge of it's capacity.

[SKY888]

ughhh I really dont want to do stand alone fuel, but I guess I may have to.

I thought ZZP was working on a modified HPFP to get more fuel in the rails as well? It has been on their site for a while now...

prepare to wait for a looooooong time for the bigger hpfp.   It will not be this year and for several more months   

I already talked to them about that recently.

the s1 cams w/ upgraded fuel lobes is the ONLY one currently that they carry that will be justifiable for cost and performance.

[miller11386]

yeah but how far will the cam take me? 550crank? Jeb's the only one on the ZZP cam and he is about 46 lb min from the last hpt screen shot I saw.

Just curious what the max fuel goal can be with zzp cam and no extra spray....

Maybe I could be a beta tester for the new HPFP

[SKY888]

Matt said that its good for around 450whp only........

they started using extra injector to reach 600whp..