Topic: Ordered new Konis

[snaponbob]

Given the results my co-driver enjoyed at Solo Nationals, it is apparent that double adjustables are not what I need to go faster. So, today I ordered a new set of Konis as it was cheaper than rebuilding the old ones, and the car won't be on jack stands for weeks. Thank you Google.

[Carbon Sky]

Which Koni are you running?  Went by their site to see what they had for the kappa, and according to their applications, they don't have anything for us.

I've been interested in Bilstein monotubes, but if the Konis are that much cheaper, I may go that route instead.

[elff]

I personally like my Bilsteins better for the street.   They are setup to match the ZOK springs very well.
None of the settings worked well with the Konis where I live.  Either too bouncy or too skittish

Level areas with out bumps the Konis did work well, so I would give them the nod for track or autoX but I'm not doing either anymore.

Carbon Sky
The part numbers are
8241-1247 and 8241-1248
Expect to pay $700-$780

There are 2 eBay auctions with them right now and I had bought mine from the one place.  They shipped fast and responded well.

[snaponbob]

@ CS - Here is THEIR listing. It's all they have. http://www.koni-na.com/cat_search.cfm?mt_id=1&my_year=2008&mak_id=36&mod_id=454&submit.x=20&submit.y=9&submit=Search

I ordered them for $702 shipped for a set of single adjustable Yellows. Except for drilling the upper mounts to 1/2" (12mm) they are a drop in fit for the Kappas. If you do your due diligence on Google, you can match that. OR, PM me and I will sent you a link. (I think I am not allowed to post the site.)

@ elff - Really? Initially I set mine (still with FE3 springs at the time) 1/4 turn from full soft and they were wonderful. BUT, to each his own. For street use, adjustable shocks may not be necessary, but once hammering away around cones, the FE3 Bilsteins were simply not up to the task. The car felt underdamped (something very common with most GM products all across the range). 

[Carbon Sky]

@ CS - Here is THEIR listing. It's all they have. http://www.koni-na.com/cat_search.cfm?mt_id=1&my_year=2008&mak_id=36&mod_id=454&submit.x=20&submit.y=9&submit=Search

I ordered them for $702 shipped for a set of single adjustable Yellows. Except for drilling the upper mounts to 1/2" (12mm) they are a drop in fit for the Kappas. If you do your due diligence on Google, you can match that. OR, PM me and I will sent you a link. (I think I am not allowed to post the site.)

@ elff - Really? Initially I set mine (still with FE3 springs at the time) 1/4 turn from full soft and they were wonderful. BUT, to each his own. For street use, adjustable shocks may not be necessary, but once hammering away around cones, the FE3 Bilsteins were simply not up to the task. The car felt underdamped (something very common with most GM products all across the range). 

EXACTLY!  Like I said, I've been looking to contact Bilstein to see if I can essentially get a monotube, with about 65%+ more dampening then stock.  As long as it's under $1000 shipped to my door, I'd find that pretty reasonable.

[elff]

Who mentioned anything about FE3s?

You assume too much

[snaponbob]

Who mentioned anything about FE3s?

You assume too much

Actually, I was not assuming anything. I have a Redline. In OEM trim the various Kappas supposedly have shocks matched to their springs. I was referring to an FE3 equipped Kappa.

[snaponbob]

EXACTLY!  Like I said, I've been looking to contact Bilstein to see if I can essentially get a monotube, with about 65%+ more dampening then stock.  As long as it's under $1000 shipped to my door, I'd find that pretty reasonable.

Some time ago I was looking for choices other than Konis. I did actually manage to speak with Bilstein, and they expressed no interest in a) revalving OEM shocks, or b) custom building a set. That said, there are race Bilsteins, just not for Kappas. I had been e-mailing a fellow on the west coast that built Miata OEM Bilsteins for racing. He was (allegedly?) trying to do some Kappa units. Nothing ever came of it. Not many other options under a grand (that are worth a damn).

 

[elff]

And assuming I was talking about the same thing and I am not.
I got rid of the FE3 shocks and springs less than 1 month after getting my sky. 

Gm offered a different set of Bilsteins coupled with springs that has the same spring rate as the ZOKs.
I eventually replaced the springs with the ZOKs to drop the sky a little bit. 

This combination IMO has been much better for the street than with the Koni shocks.

Bilstein Front Shock part number 88965295 Code C388
Bilstein Rear Shock part number 88965296 Code C390

[Carbon Sky]

Some time ago I was looking for choices other than Konis. I did actually manage to speak with Bilstein, and they expressed no interest in a) revalving OEM shocks, or b) custom building a set. That said, there are race Bilsteins, just not for Kappas. I had been e-mailing a fellow on the west coast that built Miata OEM Bilsteins for racing. He was (allegedly?) trying to do some Kappa units. Nothing ever came of it. Not many other options under a grand (that are worth a damn).

Damn it!  That's exactly what I was hoping for.

So I guess it sounds like either the stock Bilsteins, or Konis.

[snaponbob]

Damn it!  That's exactly what I was hoping for.

So I guess it sounds like either the stock Bilsteins, or Konis.

Konis seem to be the cheapest solution. Just to make sure that it is clear, Konis require drilling out the upper mount and washers to 1/2". If you want to experiment, I will have a used set that you can try. They have been revalved (minor compression increase) which means that they are "degassed". (The valving change will not be detectable on the street.)  They will dump the car about 1-1.5". NEW Konis will drop the car about .75" with stock springs as they are low pressure gas shocks from the factory. The only reason to "try" them is to see how they feel to you. They are not shot, but worn enough that they need replacement for racing purposes. On the street I can not tell any difference. If you want to "go cheap" we can work out the $$$ if you want them. If you like them enough to buy new ones instead, you can just send them back. Easy, huh?

BTW, they are a direct fit (other than the 1/2" thing) so the spring mounts are the same.

[elff]

Problem is, if you don't like them, your upper perches will not work with GM Bilsteins as the metal insert will be too large for the Bilstein bolt. 
You really need a second set of upper perches if you are just testing otherwise you are committed.  If you could find someone with a blown set of stockers or who has upgraded to Coilovers that could be a cheap way to get spares. 

As far as drilling out the uppers, it's best to put the bushing in the freezer for a day,then take them out the minute you are ready to drill them and use a dress press.  It is a total pita in a bench vise

Or try the gmpp Bilsteins and see if you like them. Not sure if crate engine depot could snag you just the shocks

[snaponbob]

I guess it's up to CS to decide.

[Carbon Sky]

Problem is, if you don't like them, your upper perches will not work with GM Bilsteins as the metal insert will be too large for the Bilstein bolt. 
You really need a second set of upper perches if you are just testing otherwise you are committed.  If you could find someone with a blown set of stockers or who has upgraded to Coilovers that could be a cheap way to get spares. 

As far as drilling out the uppers, it's best to put the bushing in the freezer for a day,then take them out the minute you are ready to drill them and use a dress press.  It is a total pita in a bench vise

Or try the gmpp Bilsteins and see if you like them. Not sure if crate engine depot could snag you just the shocks

Konis seem to be the cheapest solution. Just to make sure that it is clear, Konis require drilling out the upper mount and washers to 1/2". If you want to experiment, I will have a used set that you can try. They have been revalved (minor compression increase) which means that they are "degassed". (The valving change will not be detectable on the street.)  They will dump the car about 1-1.5". NEW Konis will drop the car about .75" with stock springs as they are low pressure gas shocks from the factory. The only reason to "try" them is to see how they feel to you. They are not shot, but worn enough that they need replacement for racing purposes. On the street I can not tell any difference. If you want to "go cheap" we can work out the $$$ if you want them. If you like them enough to buy new ones instead, you can just send them back. Easy, huh?

BTW, they are a direct fit (other than the 1/2" thing) so the spring mounts are the same.

Wow, thanks for the offer.  My only concern is, I don't want any lowering.  I have enough issues as it is with driveways.  I'd consider a .75" drop, but at 1.5", that's too much for me, and the roads/driveways I have to deal with.

[Carbon Sky]

Problem is, if you don't like them, your upper perches will not work with GM Bilsteins as the metal insert will be too large for the Bilstein bolt. 
You really need a second set of upper perches if you are just testing otherwise you are committed.  If you could find someone with a blown set of stockers or who has upgraded to Coilovers that could be a cheap way to get spares. 

As far as drilling out the uppers, it's best to put the bushing in the freezer for a day,then take them out the minute you are ready to drill them and use a dress press.  It is a total pita in a bench vise

Or try the gmpp Bilsteins and see if you like them. Not sure if crate engine depot could snag you just the shocks

How far different are the GMPP Bilsteins from the regular FE3 Bilsteins?  Or are they the same?

[elff]

I copied a spreadsheet that Flashes Owner originally posted on the following thread.
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=8484.new;topicseen#new
It has the part numbers of everything and the differences.  Sounds to me like the GM SPO kit would be good for you.  Same spring rates as the ZOK with taller springs with a matching shock that eliminates the bounciness of the FE3s and only lowers the car a very small amount.  Mine was less than an inch. Unfortunately the spreadsheet does not detail the shocks beyond part numbers but you can see the GMSPO kit does not have the FE3 shocks.  The following kit is what I originally had but am now running ZOK springs because I wanted to lower it a touch more while keeping the same spring rates.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Off-Road-Shock-Absorber-Package-17800029-P12618C683.aspx
It's in the price range you listed but you will get shocks, springs and all the mounting hardware vs just shocks. Remove the old and put these in with no modifications to old or new.

IMHO this kit works much better on the streets than the Konis. 

[wspohn]

I am really happy with the adjustable  BC Racing shocks I bought. It is worth it (to me, anyway) to pay the extra $300 or so for adjustable spring perches and your choice of new springs.

[elff]

what springs are you running with those?

[cbr6]

just my two cents, after talking with snop on bob last summer, I went w/ koni sa, gxp z0k springs. love it on the streets of Va. 1 turn from soft front, 1.5 turns from soft rear. It feels really good around VIR also, and the ride height is just right.

[wspohn]

I'm running 7 kg/mm front and rear. I'd ordered 6 for the front but apparently that got lost in the English Chinese translation, and I decided to try the stiffer fronts and see how they worked - which turned out to be well enough that I never bothered swapping out.

I believe that equates to about 390 lb/in.

See Ben's excellent review on these shocks.  http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php/topic,1638.msg17222.html#msg17222

[elff]

Wspohn
So you are running their full coilovers not just the shocks?
That's what confused me with how you phrased it.

Cbr
I ran that setup too and went back to the GM SPO bilsteins.
I had high hopes for the Konis as everyone talked them up like they were the cats meow.
Not many people have run the GM SPO bilsteins so most people only know about the FE3s which leave a lot to be desired.
I was lucky enough to find a $1000 kit for $250.
As such I thought something else must be better.  I found I wasted time and money trying to improve this combo
As my shocks are pushing 4 years I do need to look for replacements. But now I am very tentative because I could take a chance and spend money on something that just doesn't work as well with the promise of adjustability or stick with what I like

[wspohn]

Wspohn
So you are running their full coilovers not just the shocks?
That's what confused me with how you phrased it.

Correct. They are a good product and would cost half again or double if they were made in Europe instead of Taiwan.

[elff]

Ben really liked them. I remember he was blown away by the quality of the components

[Carbon Sky]

I copied a spreadsheet that Flashes Owner originally posted on the following thread.
http://www.kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=8484.new;topicseen#new
It has the part numbers of everything and the differences.  Sounds to me like the GM SPO kit would be good for you.  Same spring rates as the ZOK with taller springs with a matching shock that eliminates the bounciness of the FE3s and only lowers the car a very small amount.  Mine was less than an inch. Unfortunately the spreadsheet does not detail the shocks beyond part numbers but you can see the GMSPO kit does not have the FE3 shocks.  The following kit is what I originally had but am now running ZOK springs because I wanted to lower it a touch more while keeping the same spring rates.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Off-Road-Shock-Absorber-Package-17800029-P12618C683.aspx
It's in the price range you listed but you will get shocks, springs and all the mounting hardware vs just shocks. Remove the old and put these in with no modifications to old or new.

IMHO this kit works much better on the streets than the Konis. 

I wonder if I can get the GMSPO shocks without the springs and everything else I don't need since I kinda want to stick with the stock springs.  Thanks for the suggestions.

I've already been in contact withe CED to see what they have to offer (since some of the part numbers I've been working with are old now apparently).

[Carbon Sky]

I am really happy with the adjustable  BC Racing shocks I bought. It is worth it (to me, anyway) to pay the extra $300 or so for adjustable spring perches and your choice of new springs.

I've run multiple coilovers in the past from brand name, to lesser known.  If there's one thing I've found, they are not meant for daily drivers that see winter.  They just don't last long if they have to see cold weather, and if they see wet, and salty conditions.  I've found that OE style stuff, like Bilsteins, generally last much longer.

Furthermore, I don't want a significantly higher spring rate, nor lowering.  I've found with aftermarket units, on daily drivers, it takes only 2-3 years before the dampening has decreased significantly, and with the higher spring rates, the car rides like crap, and by the 3rd year, I can't wait to get them off.  While with stock spring rates, even after 4-5 years, with the greater durability of the oe components, and the softer spring rates, the car still handles much better than a coilover setup.  Just my experiences at least.

But thanks for the suggestion.