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Author Topic: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)  (Read 2178 times)

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Offline loveableterror

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Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« on: February 19, 2012, 11:36:06 AM »
So, Like the title says, I am going to be working on fabbing up my own ITB's. Why in the world would I ever want to take on a: 1. Expensive 2. Inane and 3. Pointless from a performance standpoint (the gains are ridiculously low), project like this? Because I had a stupid fast car, I loved it, I miss it, I also love having my license and neighbors who don't vote to evict me from my house because I live in a POA  :barf: (never again).

Now onto it. The first, obvious, and most glaring problem is our drive-by-wire setup, I am going to work on getting another TB from an LE5 and dismantle the system to see what could be integrated with the new setup.

The point of this is really just to be different. I would love to have forced induction again, I miss my turbo from the SRT-4 I spent years building. But I promised the old lady that the next full on build would be her car (a Scion XA hatch, she wants to pull a 1.8 1zz from the GT Celica and supercharge it... high tourque hatchbacks FTW) and I intend to keep that promise to her.

My goal is to have these done by next winter, I am going to be converting to a coupe type hard top (hopefully from norm), as well as running either a side exit (undercar and then out of the side skirt) or side runner (think:old Duntov vettes from the 70's) exhaust, and having the hood cutout to run the velocity stacks through. I am not stupid though. I know this is going to be a chore, and will take quite a lot of work. So did cramming a Super 60 up against the firewall of my Neon and fitting all the plumbing for it. That is the fun. I will post my technical spec and some prelim drawings I have done. I have built ITB's for Honda's in the past, they are neat, sound really cool and look amazing. Hope to be able to impress some of you "seen-it-all" guys here as I get my sea legs with the kappa platform.

Semper Fi
Andy

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 12:28:41 PM »
ITB - Independant Throttle Bodies?

POA?  power of attorney???

Whatever you're up to, it sounds cool.  Def keep us posted.  And welcome to KP!

Offline Sly Bob

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 02:37:37 PM »
Lookin' forward to the updates going forward...    :pop:
Just trying to do my part...

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Offline BSRL

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 04:42:27 PM »
I think POA is property owner's association, better known as an HOA

Offline snaponbob

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 06:18:49 PM »
 hijack mode  ---  My first home was in a brand new development. On the first HOA board I was the VP. The VERY first piece of business I started was to dissolve the HOA because the only reason was had it was for a group of 20 town houses that were a 1/8 mile from the 50 detached homes. County would not allow us to do it !! I absolutely HATE HOA's.  hijack mode off

Okay, back on subject - Andy, with all respect, why did you pick a Kappa? In ITB, there is a LOT of bumping and rubbing. Improved Touring really is a contact sport. Kappas are orphans and getting parts will be an ever tougher proposition. There is almost no proprietary racing stuff for the Kappas, so most everything will be custom build. As for the fly by wire, everything these days is built that way for a lot of reasons. There may be some outfits that might be able to give you some input as to how to have a mechanical linkage to the throttle body, but if throttle position sensor and throttle pedal position sensor are not sending outputs to the BCM and ECM that they understand you are going to have a very weird running car. 

Now that I said all that, SCCA classes the SOlstice LE5 in ITS, not ITB. For the first time I navigated the GCR. Phew. I'm exhausted !!! Anyway, it is downloadable (but do it in Explorer of Firefox because it might not download in Chrome). The IT rules start on page 393. Something pay VERY close attention to is the roll cage. SCCA takes this, almost more than anything else, VERY seriously.

Okay, now that I have thrown a dripping wet blanket over everything, give this some real serious thought. Unless you have REAL deep pockets, even a very modest build will be difficult and expensive. I know quite a few local guys that race IT, and NONE of them have brought their cars home, through a season of 4-5 events, without some level of damage, and even with fairly "common" cars they take a long while to get back right.
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Offline Dave@DDMworks

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 06:58:08 PM »
So, Like the title says, I am going to be working on fabbing up my own ITB's. Why in the world would I ever want to take on a: 1. Expensive 2. Inane and 3. Pointless from a performance standpoint (the gains are ridiculously low), project like this? Because I had a stupid fast car, I loved it, I miss it, I also love having my license and neighbors who don't vote to evict me from my house because I live in a POA  :barf: (never again).

Now onto it. The first, obvious, and most glaring problem is our drive-by-wire setup, I am going to work on getting another TB from an LE5 and dismantle the system to see what could be integrated with the new setup.

The point of this is really just to be different. I would love to have forced induction again, I miss my turbo from the SRT-4 I spent years building. But I promised the old lady that the next full on build would be her car (a Scion XA hatch, she wants to pull a 1.8 1zz from the GT Celica and supercharge it... high tourque hatchbacks FTW) and I intend to keep that promise to her.

My goal is to have these done by next winter, I am going to be converting to a coupe type hard top (hopefully from norm), as well as running either a side exit (undercar and then out of the side skirt) or side runner (think:old Duntov vettes from the 70's) exhaust, and having the hood cutout to run the velocity stacks through. I am not stupid though. I know this is going to be a chore, and will take quite a lot of work. So did cramming a Super 60 up against the firewall of my Neon and fitting all the plumbing for it. That is the fun. I will post my technical spec and some prelim drawings I have done. I have built ITB's for Honda's in the past, they are neat, sound really cool and look amazing. Hope to be able to impress some of you "seen-it-all" guys here as I get my sea legs with the kappa platform.

Semper Fi
Andy

Nice to have you here, let me know if there is anything we can answer for you to help you with the project.

As for the ITB's the biggest thing that you are going to have to work through, which will be different then most Honda's that I have seen, is that the Kappa's come with Mass Air Flow meter's, where most Honda's I have seen are speed density based. This means that you will need to figure out a way to have a MAF in the ITB's (not saying it is impossible, but not really practicable) or do a speed density tune on the LE5 which is not going to be your standard HPtuners tune. There are some places I can point you to that will be able to help you out with this and save you a lot of time if you need it, just let me know.

Dave
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Offline diamoney

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 10:44:04 PM »
Yeah, I think he's talking independant throttle bodies, too.

A set of velocity stacks, add independant exhaust stacks also coming out the hood, and....  WOW!
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Offline loveableterror

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 12:44:46 PM »
Nice to have you here, let me know if there is anything we can answer for you to help you with the project.

As for the ITB's the biggest thing that you are going to have to work through, which will be different then most Honda's that I have seen, is that the Kappa's come with Mass Air Flow meter's, where most Honda's I have seen are speed density based. This means that you will need to figure out a way to have a MAF in the ITB's (not saying it is impossible, but not really practicable) or do a speed density tune on the LE5 which is not going to be your standard HPtuners tune. There are some places I can point you to that will be able to help you out with this and save you a lot of time if you need it, just let me know.

Dave

I am thinking of going the route of the 4A-GE (Toyota motor) instead of going through a hole in the hood still putting a plenum on top to run the sensor in, or I may attempt to run individual sensors or try to tune it in a tricky style (tricking the system, like old greddy tunes). I am still waiting for my TB to get here and start taking it apart, then I will worry about tuning. Hell even if it never get's running well, I can say "i built that" and have fun when I do it. This is just something to occupy me, but if it turns out well... Hey could look nice. Im working on the math for it but a 2.5 runner (key word coming up) "should" be optimal, but I don't know yet, I haven't worked with the system before. On the hondas we have done tricky tunes for the K-series motors that have air sensors in line, by tuning with a plenum, reading the voltage and setting the response voltage to return readings to ECM at set TPS levels, tricking the system into thinking it is getting the readings, meanwhile the sensor it ziptied off. It might not be possible though. I appreciate your input Dave, I have been eye-balling your supercharger, but my lady says no-go for anything like that till the Scion is finished (dammit)

Offline loveableterror

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Re: Starting ITB build for LE5 (will update as I go)
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 04:31:02 PM »
I really need to double check my typing when I use the tablet, the 2.5 inch runner should say 4.5 inch. Dave, If you want, shoot me an email at loveableterror@gmail.com I was cruising the DDMWorks site and noticed the Hotrod EcoTec picture and wanted to ask you about it. I hope to at the very least have some fun messing with something for my own car (for once)

 

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