Topic: lnf zok sway / less traction

[cdflint]

So I added the lnf ZOK sway bars on the front and rear and I'm now getting more "Low traction" lights than my non ZOK's? Anybody come accross this?

[snaponbob]

WHEN do you get the light?

[blackbirdracing]

WHEN do you get the light?

when there is low traction...

[miller11386]

If it lowered the car (IIRC it does), perhaps you need to touch up the alignment. Your camber and toe could have been changed with the drop in height, causing the TC to get more involved than it needs to.

[ophidia31]

If its going around a slow corner and there are small irregularities, your one tire might not follow the road anymore as well as it used to with the less stiff sway bar. The stiffer sway bar keeps that wheel in the air more than the stock one, lowering the available traction to that wheel. I see it all the time with my car. I can set my watch by my low trac light comming on when i take one turn at a stop light in the morning going to work. Never happened prior to the zok bars.

[elff]

when there is low traction...

 
You are going to fit in perfectly here.

Miller,
a sway bar wouldn't lower a car.

When it is occurring is a good question to ask.

[cdflint]

It has been happening mostly making turns and starting to accelerate. The car is lowered but was aligned when shocks were placed but not when sway bars were placed.

Its not all the time but the rear does feel loose cornering. Only in the rear. The front has good control.

[Carbon Sky]

It has been happening mostly making turns and starting to accelerate. The car is lowered but was aligned when shocks were placed but not when sway bars were placed.

Its not all the time but the rear does feel loose cornering. Only in the rear. The front has good control.

Perhaps maybe wrong sized bushings?  Improper install?  Something not connected properly?

If everything is copacetic, perhaps the more neutral handling of the ZOK bars is coming off to you as being "looser"?

[snaponbob]

It has been happening mostly making turns and starting to accelerate. The car is lowered but was aligned when shocks were placed but not when sway bars were placed.

Its not all the time but the rear does feel loose cornering. Only in the rear. The front has good control.

Okay, you just hit the right button with that. First, as said above, bars will not affect ride height or alignment. What has happened is that the car has transitioned from pushy to neutral. When a car becomes neutral the rear end moves around a bit more. If the rear starts to step out under power (normal in a neutral car) the ESC will step in. What tires are you running?

[cdflint]

I have conti dws 275 35 19's. Wheels are 19x9's with 3 mm spacers.

[snaponbob]

I have conti dws 275 35 19's. Wheels are 19x9's with 3 mm spacers.

The variable here is in the shocks. What are the spring rates and how have you adjusted the shocks?

[cdflint]

I believe you are right Bob. I made the shocks more stiff and I dont seem to be getting the motion and light. I just need to play with it more to find the right setting.

[snaponbob]

I believe you are right Bob. I made the shocks more stiff and I dont seem to be getting the motion and light. I just need to play with it more to find the right setting.

Still would like to know which springs they supplied and how many clicks from full soft the front and rear shocks are set at.

[shabby]

Still would like to know which springs they supplied and how many clicks from full soft the front and rear shocks are set at.

B&G's are 448lbs front and 336lbs rear.

[snaponbob]

B&G's are 448lbs front and 336lbs rear.

I swear, I can not imagine where they, KW, etc., come up with rates opposite of the original setup. To get the right body/suspension frequencies calls for heavier springs in back. It must be a computer model based on NO sway bars. 

[shabby]

I swear, I can not imagine where they, KW, etc., come up with rates opposite of the original setup. To get the right body/suspension frequencies calls for heavier springs in back. It must be a computer model based on NO sway bars. 

All their civic/golf coilovers have the same spring rates, they probably think the solstice is fwd too.

[snaponbob]

All their civic/golf coilovers have the same spring rates, they probably think the solstice is fwd too.

  

BTW, makes perfect sense in front wheel drive.

[elff]

Not sure where you got that information from, but B&G says they are 8kg front and rear.
BCs are 7kg front and rear unless you custom order them like BenL did.
So they are a little stiffer than the BCs.

[Spike]

I swear, I can not imagine where they, KW, etc., come up with rates opposite of the original setup. To get the right body/suspension frequencies calls for heavier springs in back. It must be a computer model based on NO sway bars. 

Kw use those kind of setups on most cars. The main reason is due to the fact that they are progressive rate springs. The rear setups on most cars actually go stiffer then the fronts under full load.

[snaponbob]

Kw use those kind of setups on most cars. The main reason is due to the fact that they are progressive rate springs. The rear setups on most cars actually go stiffer then the fronts under full load.

Those people will not (or seem unable - which I can't imagine) tell a buyer what the rate progression of the springs are. I have tried. One of the reasons I didn't buy KWs (and I would have) is that they simply are not "user friendly". Streak would be wearing V3s right now if I could have any reasonable set up questions. But that's KW. B&Gs springs appear to be linear.

[shabby]

Not sure where you got that information from, but B&G says they are 8kg front and rear.

When i looked up the numbers on my b&g springs they were 6kg rear and 8kg front.

[elff]

Thats not what they told me and you and SOB are correct, that's F-Ing Backwards for our cars.   Eibach does the same thing.
I will say, having the rear softer will aid take off traction, but I drive my car HARD on the street, not on a 1/4 mile track so that's worthless.

Yes we all understand the engine is in the front of the car, what these manufacturers fail to realize is that does not mean the front of our cars carries more weight
 
We have a near perfect ratio of 49/51  and the rears do need to be stiffer for proper handling.

Thanks for the post, You just saved me time and money.  I'm bagging on the B&G's I already know I won't like them.

Think it's time for Custom ordered BC's exactly how BenL did em, except I think I will add Swift springs.

[snaponbob]

Do you mean 49r/51f? Hope so. Not sure how Ben got BC to custom build shocks, because I asked them if they would build true DAs and they said "not for your platform". Coupled adjusters bring in compression when it may not be wanted. VERY different than more rebound. 

Swift springs are VERY nice, VERY light, and VERY expensive. If you KNOW the desired rates, they might be worth the extra expense. If you are going to tune the suspension it will get EXPENSIVE !! Given that I have played with rates I have been buying used (name brand) springs. Paying $60-$80 a pair (and reselling what I didn't need) is easier to stomach than Swift prices.

Here is a hint - don't use the same front/rear "delta" as a base point when you start going up in rates. I stayed with the 16% delta for springs in the 400lbs/in range and instantly had a drift car !! As the spring rates go up on the Kappas the vehicle dynamics change, and the bars must be considered. Corner in is one thing and corner out is another with power making a big difference in the latter. And then there is mid corner. This is why couple shock valving is a negative. When I had my Konis revalved for a bit more compression, Lee Grimes (Koni rep) said the front would initially turn in better and then be pushier. It was subtle (one step up on compression) but 100% correct. Incorrect rebound settings are easy to feel and correct. Incorrect compression settings are subtle and often lead to one chasing their own tail to figure out because it feels like other things may be wrong. 

[elff]

I'll leave it at near 50/50 I always get that confused.


Guess I will find out if not, at least the BCs some standard with the same rate front and rear.  7Kg.  Can't believe how much of a hassle it is going 3rd party suspension on our cars.

[snaponbob]

I'll leave it at near 50/50 I always get that confused.


Guess I will find out if not, at least the BCs some standard with the same rate front and rear.  7Kg.  Can't believe how much of a hassle it is going 3rd party suspension on our cars.

FWIW, on Longacre scales, Streak is 51.8 front empty and (hard to believe) 51.4 with my butt in it. The 2.4s are closer to 50/50. (Sure wish intercoolers weighed less!!)