Topic: Spring Rate Comparison GM Vs Aftermarket

[ihawk95]

Ok adjustments have been made. Let's see what I get!

[elff]

What did you set them to?

[ihawk95]

What did you set them to?

They were full soft in the front and 5 clicks harder in the rear before.
I set them to full hard, then went back 16 clicks in the front and 11 in the rear. I had 18 clicks total so that should have been 2 harder overall. It's still bouncy, but it handles the small bumps better. Corners were awesome!
I'm gonna try 14 clicks in front and 9 in back on the way home if it doesn't rain. That's working back from the hardest  setting. That's probably what I'll run on for tomorrow's twisties, unless I try a 7 click difference.

[MARVIC 1]

Been reading this thread very closely as I'm in the market for some adjustable coilovers myself...
I notice you guys keep talking about a set amount of clicks to the right or left. Is this setting the Rebound Damping or the Compression phase adjustments? Thanks!

[ihawk95]

Been reading this thread very closely as I'm in the market for some adjustable coilovers myself...
I notice you guys keep talking about a set amount of clicks to the right or left. Is this setting the Rebound Damping or the Compression phase adjustments? Thanks!

The B&G's have 18 levels of dampening control.  According to the website it's a combination of rebound and compression.

[ihawk95]

On may way home I went 2 more clicks harder in the back.  So starting from the hardest setting:

16 clicks front
9 clicks rear

Elff...where are you at right now?  My car is still bouncy.  I'm probably going to try running this way for tomorrow's run.  If I don't like it, I can change it midway through the run.

[elff]

Your front is 2 clicks from the softest setting and the rear is mid way which will make it much stiffer.

I am currently at 13 Front 11 back.

[ihawk95]

Your front is 2 clicks from the softest setting and the rear is mid way which will make it much stiffer.

I am currently at 13 Front 11 back.

Ooooh...so just slightly softer in the front.  Hmmm...I'm thinking a little harder will help with the bounce.  Thanks for the info.  Might try a few less clicks in the front.

[MARVIC 1]

Your front is 2 clicks from the softest setting and the rear is mid way which will make it much stiffer.

I am currently at 13 Front 11 back.

Each click represents what? How much of a difference from click 1 to click 2?

[elff]

each click represents 1/18th of an adjustment towards firmer or softer

[Sol Asylum]

each click represents 1/18th of an adjustment towards firmer or softer

Thank you Mr. Obvious.

[elff]

Seriously how are we to know how much dampening each one does.

[ihawk95]

Checked the website again and it definitely does not tell you what you get for the 18 clicks.  Only that it's a combo of rebound and compression.  But it must do something because the little screw thinger moves up or down while you're clicking!

(Have fun with that GJ!  Try not to spit all over the screen.)

[MARVIC 1]

Seriously how are we to know how much dampening each one does.

elff - You been clicking away for a month now and don't know what its doing????? 
One adjustment knob for Rebound Damping and Compression?? 

[elff]

It's for both, I just don't know what the measurement is.  One way gets stiffer, one way gets softer.

It's also a fine line between how it works at low speeds vs high speeds.  One setting doesn't always work well for both so it's a game of compromise.  I actually made the rear a little softer and am at 13 Clicks front and rear.   That makes the rear bounce less if I hit a rise like Miller stated.   I've actually been playing on that on ramp I found had something like he described. 
The KW Variant 3s have separate adjustments.

[miller11386]

That makes the rear bounce less if I hit a rise like Miller stated.   I've actually been playing on that on ramp I found had something like he described. 

Problem is I have about 4-5 of these type of approaches on my daily work commute. some are more harsh than others. Anywhere from say 1/4 drop to a 3" drop before  a bridge

Sometimes I wonder about those civil engineers that build these things.....

[MARVIC 1]

It's for both, I just don't know what the measurement is.  One way gets stiffer, one way gets softer.

It's also a fine line between how it works at low speeds vs high speeds.  One setting doesn't always work well for both so it's a game of compromise.  I actually made the rear a little softer and am at 13 Clicks front and rear.   That makes the rear bounce less if I hit a rise like Miller stated.   I've actually been playing on that on ramp I found had something like he described. 
The KW Variant 3s have separate adjustments.

elff - Are we talking coilovers (Stiffer/Softer) 
I placed an order for the B&G RS2 a few days ago at a good price $1,074 from Sparktec Motorsports. The guy called me back yesterday saying that their will be a delay because he does not have them in stock, but he was waiting for a new shipment. I ask him how long is the wait (I've already paid him when I placed my order) He said he is not sure how long. I said return my money, he did that very quick... Calls me back today and says that the B&G's coilovers are no longer in production for the Saturn Sky cars. He continued by asking me if I would like to buy a cold Air Intake! 
Anyway, about an 3 hours ago I placed an order from another web-site for the KW Variant 3 Coilovers. Nice price at $1,655 plus free shipping, can't post from who because that will be competing with one of KP forum venders...
Now I can't wait to get them, need to rise my car about an inch in order to mount the Norm's front splitter.
Thanks for your help in answering my questions! I have more but that would be tomorrow  Again thanks!

[bondosgto]

anyone know any thing about D2 coil overs?

[ihawk95]

It's also a fine line between how it works at low speeds vs high speeds.  One setting doesn't always work well for both so it's a game of compromise.  I actually made the rear a little softer and am at 13 Clicks front and rear.   That makes the rear bounce less if I hit a rise like Miller stated.   I've actually been playing on that on ramp I found had something like he described. 

I have to take part of the way Miller goes today.  But I don't want to run at that setting.  I'll go with what you had before...13 front, 11 rear and try that to run.  Then I can reset on my way home and try 13, 13.  Where I was yesterday was still bouncy.

[elff]

Problem is I have about 4-5 of these type of approaches on my daily work commute. some are more harsh than others. Anywhere from say 1/4 drop to a 3" drop before  a bridge

Sometimes I wonder about those civil engineers that build these things.....

The drops don't bother these springs at all.  It absorbs them really well.  it when you hit a surface that is higher than the one you were previously on where they bounce a bit.
That is what I am trying to adjust out.

elff - Are we talking coilovers (Stiffer/Softer) 
I placed an order for the B&G RS2 a few days ago at a good price $1,074 from Sparktec Motorsports. The guy called me back yesterday saying that their will be a delay because he does not have them in stock, but he was waiting for a new shipment. I ask him how long is the wait (I've already paid him when I placed my order) He said he is not sure how long. I said return my money, he did that very quick... Calls me back today and says that the B&G's coilovers are no longer in production for the Saturn Sky cars. He continued by asking me if I would like to buy a cold Air Intake! 
Anyway, about an 3 hours ago I placed an order from another web-site for the KW Variant 3 Coilovers. Nice price at $1,655 plus free shipping, can't post from who because that will be competing with one of KP forum venders...
Now I can't wait to get them, need to rise my car about an inch in order to mount the Norm's front splitter.
Thanks for your help in answering my questions! I have more but that would be tomorrow  Again thanks!

The reason we got the deal from DDM was because they are no longer being made for the Kappa platform.   That was stated in DDMs post about these.   Good luck with the KWs.  If you decide you don't like their spring setup [Which a lot of people don't] You can always replace them with Swift Springs.  This is why I was not worried with the B&Gs being 8Kg.  I figured the springs can be swapped to something different for under $400.  Even swapping the springs, the total price is killer for the B&Gs.  At the moment, I have no plans to do that.  They are working extremely well where I live.  Turns are just evil.    The second adjuster on the KW will require that you Jack up the car.   

I have to take part of the way Miller goes today.  But I don't want to run at that setting.  I'll go with what you had before...13 front, 11 rear and try that to run.  Then I can reset on my way home and try 13, 13.  Where I was yesterday was still bouncy.

I would suggest you try it at full soft, 18 18 and then work backwards from there until you find what you like.  If you find these end up being too bouncy, as I stated above, you could get softer springs from Swift and still be ahead of the game.

[ihawk95]

Heck no I'm not getting rid of them!! Not after that run!!! Damn they were nice in the twisties!!! Completely badazz!!!

[elff]

That's been my favorite setting so far.

It is quite fun.  I'm glad you finally found a setting that you like.   

FYI, you can swap just springs on Coilovers just like the stock setup.  That's all I was referring to.

[MARVIC 1]

The reason we got the deal from DDM was because they are no longer being made for the Kappa platform.   That was stated in DDMs post about these.   Good luck with the KWs.  If you decide you don't like their spring setup [Which a lot of people don't] You can always replace them with Swift Springs.  This is why I was not worried with the B&Gs being 8Kg.  I figured the springs can be swapped to something different for under $400.  Even swapping the springs, the total price is killer for the B&Gs.  At the moment, I have no plans to do that.  They are working extremely well where I live.  Turns are just evil.    The second adjuster on the KW will require that you Jack up the car.   
I would suggest you try it at full soft, 18 18 and then work backwards from there until you find what you like.  If you find these end up being too bouncy, as I stated above, you could get softer springs from Swift and still be ahead of the game.

It seems like all these seller had the same good deal not just DDM Works (Price on the B&G Coilovers).

I'm going to try KW Coilover spring setup the way they come and find out... (Highway, Street and a little nice running spot around here).
Antonio (SKY888) says he has the KW V3 Coilover and that they are fine....

Today's question: After mounting the coilovers we would need to get the car aligned. What happens after the alignment is done and I decide to change the height of the car again using the height-adjustment nuts on the coilovers, will I need another alignment on the car? 

[elff]

OK re-stating what I thought I already stated
The reason DDM was able to sell them at this price was because of the closeout.
Yes, everyone who was selling them was able to discount this amount if they wanted to.

No Offense to Antonio, but Antonio hasn't driven his car in almost 2 years.  I would use someone else for Spring/Shock consulting. 
Removing my Opinion
DDM has confirmed that in order for their AutoX car to perform better, they had to install stiffer rear springs on their KW Variant 3s
Multiple Mini Cooper friends of mine ditched the KW springs in favor or the Swift Springs [But still have the rest of the KW setup]
The Solstice Race Team shocked a lot of big players 3 years in a row in the SCCA T2 class with a car that Stiffer rear springs.
SOB, Shabby and other AutoX experienced drivers can also chime in on what works best for them.

But as you say they will probably be fine and if you have good level roads, don't autoX or track the kappa, you might never test out the spring rates in a way that it could matter.
Conversely, In Kelu's case, I think they are a good Drag Racing setup,
but
if you see the "What did you do to your Kappa Part 2 thread" Kelu just suffered damage to Norm's rear diffuser due to bottoming out and hitting the exhaust.
Would that have happened if the Spring rates were reversed as GM intended
 

In regards to your question

If you change the height of a car it is highly recommend that you get it realigned because the camber of the tires will be off [Angle of the tire in relationship to the road] and thus the part of the tread that is making contact

[MARVIC 1]

In regards to your question

If you change the height of a car it is highly recommend that you get it realigned because the camber of the tires will be off [Angle of the tire in relationship to the road] and thus the part of the tread that is making contact

Thanks for the quick reply... Bummer, I thought that I could lift and lower without having to get another alignment. Up for regular driving and down for shows.... OK, Thanks!