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Author Topic: Clutch bleeding  (Read 4387 times)

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Offline elff

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Clutch bleeding
« on: September 08, 2012, 11:05:32 AM »
Good Luck.
Maybe you can break into the 12.s

Havent you had anyone help with the clutch issue yet?
Andrei's was super smooth, so you should be able to get it better

Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 11:11:45 AM »
I did his method of bleeding twice until now but no change. I don't think a bleeding can be done on top of a hydraulic system with a little bit of vaccum.

I'm trying to figure out how to properly bleed the clutch system, like in the break case, I might need to find if slave cylinder has or not a bleeder nut. Anybody knows this?

Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 12:27:15 PM »
Elff should be able to answer that Andrei gave him a slave cylinder.

Using the vacuum method should work though.
2007 Aggressive GXP

Offline elff

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 01:00:03 PM »
Here is a pic of the slave cylinder.
This is for an NA not GT, gxp or Redline

Only has the one inlet so it would depend if the attaching line has a bleeder spot which I don't think it does.

Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 01:53:24 PM »
SA: you can't suck bubbles from a hydraulic system ... you can only push or pull liquid using an air push/pull tool. Or am I missing something?

I think I have mine around here, the question is, we have access to slave cylinder without removing the bell housing?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 01:58:35 PM by Kelu »
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline elff

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 02:06:16 PM »
I am very sure the answer is no.

Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 02:09:53 PM »
This is my slave. Looks same as the NA one, how can I identify if this is correct one for LNF.

This was not mounted when I put the clutch kit.
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2012, 02:20:13 PM »
If there are bubbles in the hydraulic system when you place a vacuum to it the bubbles will expand which makes it easier for them to float past restrictions and flow to the reservoir.

When I had to bleed the clutch on my truck another method was to pump the pedal rapidly about 20 times and then slip your foot off the pedal so that it would snap back.  I could actually get out and watch the air bubbles come to the surface of the reservoir.  I repeated this several times until the bubbles stopped.

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Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2012, 02:41:00 PM »
Ford Ranger & Mazda B-Series Pickup Clutch Hydraulic Release System Bleeding Procedures

This is a pretty general clutch system right?

Slave has a bleeding port tho, so only taping the line would help. I can't figure out how a vacuum pump added at top of master cylinder reservoir can produce the trapped bubbles to get up.
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline elff

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2012, 03:02:30 PM »
The part numbers are different.
Here are the ones on mine

Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2012, 03:25:47 PM »
Thanks for sharing, yes different pn but they look same to me :(
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2012, 04:02:39 PM »
Unlike in the video our system has the hydraulic line at the highest point on the slave cyl and the line should not have any bends which would trap air bubbles.  Supposedly bubbles should not get trapped in the slave cyl.  But there must be some place where bubbles can get trapped and if I had to guess there is a passage on the slave cyl where that can happen.  If you look at the pictures you and Elff posted you will see a round tube like part to the right of where the hydraulic line attaches.  On my truck's slave cyl that part was drilled and taped for the bleeder, if that is hollow then it could be a place where an air bubble could get trapped.

What happens when you use a vacuum is that the air bubble actually gets bigger (think of a balloon, the air inside the balloon is at a fixed pressure if you reduce the pressure outside of the balloon it will get bigger) and less of the bubble will be trapped by the passage, it will then be able to flow out to the reservoir.  When you combine the vacuum and pedal movement the bubble will get pushed around and it helps to work the air out of the system.

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Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2012, 04:45:05 PM »
So, in theory, having that hose from master cylinder contected to the intake manifold all the time, means that in time, all air should be out using vaccum from intake manifold  and pedal usage, right?

Why vacuuming from top of reservoir using same source might help?
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2012, 07:06:46 PM »
I am not sure I understand the questions.

If you mean the vacuum line that goes to the brake booster then I can tell you that doesn't put a vacuum to the reservoir.
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Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2012, 07:10:47 PM »
Ok, I found info in the manual which I had on my hard drive, duuuh.

Should I post anything here?
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2012, 07:18:41 PM »
Clutch topic split as per request

Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2012, 07:19:35 PM »
Thanks you Boss
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2012, 07:37:29 PM »
Ok, I found info in the manual which I had on my hard drive, duuuh.

Should I post anything here?
Good idea, post it

Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2012, 07:46:52 PM »
Hydraulic Clutch Bleeding

Tools Required
J 35555 Metal Mity Vac
J 43485 Power Steering Bleeder Adapter

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Vacuum Bleeding

Note: Check the clutch hose assembly for the correct routing. The clutch hose assembly should be routed above the rubber boot for the steering column and above the grommet for the hood release cables. If the clutch hose assembly is not routed correctly, the clutch hydraulic system will be very difficult or impossible to bleed. If the clutch hose assembly is not routed correctly, change the clutch hose assembly routing before bleeding the clutch hydraulic system.

1. Verify that all the hydraulic lines are dry, secure and correctly routed.

2. Clean dirt and grease from the brake reservoir cap in order to ensure that no foreign substances enter the system.

3. Remove the brake reservoir cap.

Note: Maintain the fluid in the brake reservoir at the MAX level with DOT 3 hydraulic brake fluid. The MAX level marker can be found on the side of the brake reservoir that faces the engine, If the fluid in the brake reservoir is not at the MAX level, the portion of the brake reservoir that is connected to the clutch hydraulic system may not contain fluid. The portion of the brake reservoir that is connected to the clutch hydraulic system is located in the left, rear corner of the brake reservoir.


4. Fill the entire brake reservoir to the MAX level using DOT 3 hydraulic brake fluid.

Note: DOT 3 hydraulic brake fluid will deteriorate the rubber on the J 43485 , use a clean shop towel to wipe away all fluid after each use.

5. Install the J 43485 and the J 35555 to the reservoir.

6. Hold the J 43485 into position while applying 51-68 kPa (15-20 hg) of vacuum.

7. Remove the adapter and refill the brake reservoir to the MAX level.

8. Depress the clutch pedal slowly to the full depressed position.

9. Let the clutch pedal return to the up stop position and hold for 5 seconds.

10. Repeat steps 4-9 until all air is removed from the clutch system.

11. Replace the cap on the brake reservoir.

13. Place the transmission into the neutral position, depress the clutch pedal, and start the engine.

14. Pump the clutch pedal until firm.


Note: The clutch and braking systems are integrated into one reservoir. The brake may be soft when first applying.

15. Pump the brake pedal until firm.

16. If needed, add additional DOT 3 hydraulic brake fluid to fill the brake reservoir to the MAX level.

17. Road test the vehicle to ensure proper operation.
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2012, 07:49:42 PM »
SA: now you understand that Andrei is basically doing exactly as described here but instead using the vacuum pump he told me to connect the reservoir cap with the intake manifold using a hose.

Our engines idle with a vacuum of 0.6 bar which is exactly same amount of vacuum asked in the instructions (68 kPa = 0.68 bar) to be used with the manual pump.


PS: Why in the hell our cars don't have a slave cylinder with a proper bleeding valve like all the cars out there?  :cloud:
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2012, 08:27:11 PM »
Yep I understood what Andrei had done, and thought it pretty clever to use the engine as a vacuum instead of having to get another tool.  However I do own one of the Mitty vacs.

I can't answer why they decided not to use a bleeder.
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Offline snaponbob

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2012, 08:48:18 PM »


PS: Why in the hell our cars don't have a slave cylinder with a proper bleeding valve like all the cars out there?  :cloud:

The is no way to bleed ANY slave that is INSIDE the bell housing. The BETTER question is why ANY manufacturer buries the slave like that, instead of having a system like BMWs - an exterior slave and clutch arm against the throw out.
Bob Buxbaum
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2012, 10:17:43 PM »
The is no way to bleed ANY slave that is INSIDE the bell housing. The BETTER question is why ANY manufacturer buries the slave like that, instead of having a system like BMWs - an exterior slave and clutch arm against the throw out.

False!

My 96' S10 had a bleeder on the slave that was inside the bellhousing there was an opening on the side and you could bleed it. Like I have already said the slave was like the ones pictured.
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Offline snaponbob

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2012, 10:43:12 PM »
False!

My 96' S10 had a bleeder on the slave that was inside the bellhousing there was an opening on the side and you could bleed it. Like I have already said the slave was like the ones pictured.

Agreed. SO .. "inside a solid bellhousing" !! The small Ford/Mazda pickups had the same issue as the Kappas. Still drives mechanics and owners nuts.
Bob Buxbaum
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2007 Redline, Revalved Konis, Crazy alignment
FE3 front and Z0K rear bars, owner installed pwr lock buttons
catless downpipe, SP custom exhaustWester's tune
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Offline Kelu

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Re: Clutch bleeding
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2012, 05:08:41 AM »
Now my car acts even worse when I'm on 4th take it out to Neutral or I put in 5th and than when i'm down shifting in 4th it makes a huge clunk, basically gets into the gear by force.  :mad:

There are 2 main aspects which I can't fix without getting the tranny down:
1) Hopefully my mechanic didn't changed the routing of the line between the master and slave, as was stated in the manual you will not be able to bleed if is routed differently

2) Manual says "until" you take all air out and the pedal is firm, but this doesn't denote clear.

Here is a video for a proper bleeding without a bleeding valve, but requires to have the system on the bench:
Bleeding External Clutch Hydraulic Release Systems Without Bleed Screws
Dragula  ;) Opel GT  from Romania
Arabas: take fotos, videos and keep all girls locked inside the house. Kelu's charm is irresistible !!!!

 

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