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Author Topic: Cluster and DIC Dead  (Read 6267 times)

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Offline cdnite

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Cluster and DIC Dead
« on: March 16, 2013, 03:45:25 PM »
I have an 08 RedLine and my cluster is dead. The center info lights work and the back lighting works but the gauges (speedo, tach, fuel level and DIC) do not function.

I have checked all the fuses and they are OK, no codes on my scanner, and everything seem to work as normal... only weird thing is the security light  (amber car with the line through it) comes on once in a while.

Any ideas?


--Christian

Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 04:07:06 PM »
A quick glance at the schematic (attached) show there are very few connections, and most everything is driven via the GMLan.  Thus, I would say you have a fault internal to the cluster itself.  Good news is that you can get a new/used one off eBay for a Sol/Sky/Cobalt and swap your current gauge plate and amber lamp 'hats' to the new one.  The mileage etc, is stored in the BCM.  (The only caveat is whether the DIC functions will all work like a Sky, maybe-maybe not.)

The other possibility is just a bad battery (some pretty weird things happen with bad batteries in our cars), but if you say EVERYTHING else is working fine, then may not be that.
"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." (Monty Python)

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 05:26:01 PM »
Fuses in the passenger footwell were checked also?

New stereo recently?

Old battery?

Aftermarket alarm not installed by TS?

May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 06:29:28 PM »
I would check to see if you have a bad ground.
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Offline Brazen17

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 06:44:09 PM »
I would check to see if you have a bad ground.

Beat me to it. I was thinking loose ground. Although batteries on the way out can behave strangely. Especially if components are senstive to voltage/current fluctuations. When the wifes battery died (dead cell) everything worked fine (including bright headlights) until you tried cranking it.
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Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 07:23:52 PM »
I would check to see if you have a bad ground.
If it were a bad ground, nothing would work in the cluster, IMO.
"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." (Monty Python)

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 09:50:18 PM »
Assuming all circuits use the same ground wire that maybe the case.  But in this case they probably have several wires that share a common ground point.
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Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 10:01:55 PM »
Assuming all circuits use the same ground wire that maybe the case.  But in this case they probably have several wires that share a common ground point.
Look at the schematic I posted above.
"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." (Monty Python)

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 10:18:16 PM »
Ever try to make out a schematic on a phone?  I ain't saying I'm right about how its grounded but it cost nothing to check them and sometimes they are the problem.  How much is it going to cost in time and money to trouble shoot by buying a new cluster?  And what if after that it still doesnt fix it?

All I'm saying is trouble shoot to find the source of the problem, don't just throw parts at it and hope something fixes it.
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Offline Helios

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2013, 02:28:00 AM »
Check pin 15 on the instrument cluster and the opposite connector in the car. Ensure the ground internal of the cluster on pin 15 is good as well as pin 15 going back into the car. I bet you have a bent/ pushed contact or broken ground on that pin alone. If you look at the schematic pin 15 (chassis ground [G304]) is the only ground in common with the DIC, speedo, tach, and fuel gauge. All other indicator lights are getting their grounds from other points. Yes, I am a REAL electrician.
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2013, 04:08:24 AM »
Check pin 15 on the instrument cluster and the opposite connector in the car. Ensure the ground internal of the cluster on pin 15 is good as well as pin 15 going back into the car. I bet you have a bent/ pushed contact or broken ground on that pin alone. If you look at the schematic pin 15 (chassis ground [G304]) is the only ground in common with the DIC, speedo, tach, and fuel gauge. All other indicator lights are getting their grounds from other points. Yes, I am a REAL electrician.

I am not a ReAl eLEctRICIAN
May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline Helios

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2013, 10:21:14 AM »
Check pin 15 on the instrument cluster and the opposite connector in the car. Ensure the ground internal of the cluster on pin 15 is good as well as pin 15 going back into the car. I bet you have a bent/ pushed contact or broken ground on that pin alone. If you look at the schematic pin 15 (chassis ground [G304]) is the only ground in common with the DIC, speedo, tach, and fuel gauge. All other indicator lights are getting their grounds from other points. Yes, I am a REAL electrician.

My name is, Joey J. and I approved this message.
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Offline elff

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2013, 10:41:57 AM »
Subscribing to see the answer.

Good Luck. 

Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2013, 10:58:42 AM »
If you look at the schematic pin 15 (chassis ground [G304]) is the only ground in common with the DIC, speedo, tach, and fuel gauge. All other indicator lights are getting their grounds from other points. Yes, I am a REAL electrician.
Err, no, actually.  If you check the schematic again, pin 15 is common ground for ALL the things you mention.  The only other ground point is pin 16 for the gauge backlights (well, and pins 6 & 14 for the CEL and Immobilizer lights ONLY).  The other connections are all data or +ve voltage.  (Yes, I am a REAL poet.)

That's not to say I wouldn't check the connector pins first though, anyway.

UPDATE:  I (heh!) checked the service manual for the diagnostic procedure for the "Instrument Cluster Gages Inoperative".  It says "This diagnostic procedure applies to serial data gages located in the instrument panel cluster (IPC) which includes the speedometer, tachometer, engine coolant temperature gage (if equipped).".  OK so far so good. On the right track here, thinks I...

So then the entirety of the procedure is (I kid you not):

1. Ignition ON and the scan tool installed, perform the IPC Gage Sweep Test in the IPC Output Controls. Verify that all gage dials move from minimum to the maximum value and back to the gage minimum value.
⇒   If the gages do not perform the IPC Gage Sweep Test, replace the IPC.
2. Start the engine with the vehicle drive wheels raised and place the transmission in drive or first gear. Verify that the speedometer value matches the scan tool Vehicle Speed parameter in the ECM Engine Data List.
⇒   If the speedometer is incorrect, test or replace the IPC.

No wonder we have no faith in the Service Departments!  :banghead:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 11:15:02 AM by TomatoSoup »
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Offline cdnite

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2013, 11:20:59 AM »
All fuses checked and rechecked then checked by another engineer and rechecked by that engineer, then just for shit and giggles the BCM, ECU, and Cluster fuses were replaced.

Brand new Optima battery, correct charging voltage and engine off voltage (14.5vDC and 12.1 vDC).

Radio is removed, but that has never effected the gauges before, only the door chime and turn signal clicking.

Alarm untouched.

My gauges do not do the sweep test.

I drove around last night using my Daskhawk for my gauges, so the GMLan works.

I'll check the ground Pin.

Luckily I just happen to have an extra gauge cluster, I'll swap that in this afternoon and let yall know what I find out.


Thanks guys keep the ideas coming!

--Christian

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2013, 12:23:36 PM »
Did you Check the water pump?

Not that is has anything to do with this, I was just curious.

Perhaps some wiring has come undone while fiddling behind the dash and all that is needed is to reconnect? 
I once ( before I finish this story, I'm an idiot who gets too excited to take his time when finishing a project) plugged the traction control wiring in to the (something else nearby ) and then thought I broke the car while installing the radio. Took me an hour of drinking to figure it out.
May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 12:28:23 PM »
I once ( before I finish this story, I'm an idiot who gets too excited to take his time when finishing a project) plugged the traction control wiring in to the (something else nearby ) and then thought I broke the car while installing the radio. Took me an hour of drinking to figure it out.
You should stick to the poetry :p


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Offline cdnite

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2013, 12:31:12 PM »
Did you Check the water pump?

Not that is has anything to do with this, I was just curious.

Perhaps some wiring has come undone while fiddling behind the dash and all that is needed is to reconnect? 
I once ( before I finish this story, I'm an idiot who gets too excited to take his time when finishing a project) plugged the traction control wiring in to the (something else nearby ) and then thought I broke the car while installing the radio. Took me an hour of drinking to figure it out.



Are you saying that if I don't drink heavily I'll never fix my gauges and my water pump will fail?

If that's true, would a couple of pitchers of Beergaritas re-paint the SKY too?

--Christian

Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2013, 01:15:50 PM »
Just thought of one more "slaughter a chicken" type diagnostic.  Have you tried just pulling the battery cable, leaving for 30 secs and reconnecting?  Maybe something just needs a reboot. :huh:
"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." (Monty Python)

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2013, 01:31:53 PM »


Are you saying that if I don't drink heavily I'll never fix my gauges and my water pump will fail?

If that's true, would a couple of pitchers of Beergaritas re-paint the SKY too?

--Christian

It might temporarily repainted the Sky.
May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline cdnite

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2013, 03:02:23 PM »
So I had a few beergaritas last Sunday... dash is not fix and car didn't paint itself, but luckily the water pump is OK... so I feel like im only 1 point behind.

I installed the new gauge cluster and checked all the grounds, I even ran an additional battery ground, and still no gauge movement or DIC.

Do you guys have any other ideas?

--Christian
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 03:21:19 PM by cdnite »

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2013, 03:23:26 PM »
At this point I'd guess battery or BCM.  Either one is a potentially expensive proposition.  I see you have a brand new optima battery, but by several accounts, optima isn't what they used to be.  I'd look there first...

Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2013, 04:08:03 PM »
At this point I'd guess battery or BCM.  Either one is a potentially expensive proposition.  I see you have a brand new optima battery, but by several accounts, optima isn't what they used to be.  I'd look there first...
OK then, I'll take BCM for 400.
"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." (Monty Python)

Offline cdnite

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2013, 04:35:02 PM »
I found it! Y'all were right its was a ground.

Pin 15 grounds behind the drivers seat G304, and the wire was coming out of the terminal. I guess it had just enough contact to read as a ground on my meter but not enough for the gauge cluster to function.

--Christian

Offline TomatoSoup

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Re: Cluster and DIC Dead
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2013, 04:43:14 PM »
Bizzzzarre!  Then how were all the other cluster lights functioning?

'Cos if SA was right, this is gonna be me....
"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." (Monty Python)

 

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