Topic: Cluster and DIC Dead

[Helios]

Told you...What did I win? Boobie prize?

[Sol Asylum]

TS it's not worth it man.  You got to finish your back up light mod first.  The entire French army is depending on you to make retreating safer after night fall.

[Sly Bob]

cdnite were you back there tugging at things? The wire shouldn't have come out on it's own.

[Gentleman Jack]

So I had a few beergaritas last Sunday... dash is now fixed and car didn't paint itself, but luckily the water pump is OK... so I feel like im only 1 point behind.


--Christian

All you that think you got it right?  You CRAZY.  My solution is why it's getting fixed.

[cdnite]

GJ your solution kinda worked... problem was solved... but there was a weird side effect... I now have this giant 68 trim turbo in the SKY.

I'll update you guys with how that works out soon.

--Christian

[Gentleman Jack]

GJ your solution kinda worked... problem was solved... but there was a weird side effect... I now have this giant 68 trim turbo in the SKY.

I'll update you guys with how that works out soon.

--Christian

Christ I am,
(Now there is a funny autocorrect )

Christian,
What you had wrong with your car is called a gremlin, also known as a germ. It is a well know scientific fact that alcohol kills germs. Most people in this forum don't believe that my ways are based in science. I'm glad to see you can appreciate my methods
Enjoy the new turbo. Just don't get caught by the Cops.

[cdnite]

Do the cops have new turbos too?

[Gentleman Jack]

Do the cops have new turbos too?

Sometimes. It depends how much you drank before you tried to run away from the in flip flops. It sure SEEMS like they had turbos.

[Helios]

Bizzzzarre!  Then how were all the other cluster lights functioning?

'Cos if SA was right, this is gonna be me.... (Image removed from quote.)

Here's a more detailed explanation. Pins 13 and 11 are supply voltage for all of the lights and pin 9 is data. All 3 originate from the BCM. The immobilizer, signal lights, high beam, and airbag indicator lights will find their ground out through pin 14 somewhere in the immobilizer schematic. The battery, seat belt, ABS, traction control, etc. (all the indicator lights on the upper right of the IPC schematic) will find their ground out through pin 6 to the engine controls schematic. The auto transmission lights and the interior lights dimming ground points are self explanatory. So, this only leaves the DIC, speedo, tach, and fuel gauge to get their ground from pin 15. Another tell tale sign that the previous 4 lights grounded through pin 15 is the fact that they are the only items that have a supply and return leg associated with the ground on pin 15. The other lights only have a supply leg and no return leg back to pin 15. Hope this helps.

[TomatoSoup]

Here's a more detailed explanation. Pins 13 and 11 are supply voltage for all of the lights and pin 9 is data. All 3 originate from the BCM. The immobilizer, signal lights, high beam, and airbag indicator lights will find their ground out through pin 14 somewhere in the immobilizer schematic. The battery, seat belt, ABS, traction control, etc. (all the indicator lights on the upper right of the IPC schematic) will find their ground out through pin 6 to the engine controls schematic. The auto transmission lights and the interior lights dimming ground points are self explanatory. So, this only leaves the DIC, speedo, tach, and fuel gauge to get their ground from pin 15. Another tell tale sign that the previous 4 lights grounded through pin 15 is the fact that they are the only items that have a supply and return leg associated with the ground on pin 15. The other lights only have a supply leg and no return leg back to pin 15. Hope this helps.

I think your looking at a different schematic to the one I'm looking at.   The battery, seat belt, ABS, traction control, etc. (all the indicator lights on the upper right of the IPC schematic) have their positive voltage supply via the top common rail on the schematic, which is supplied by the left-most line.  They are all switched ground into the BCM (the bottom line from each individual LED) - as indicated by the direction of the diode symbols - and then to 'real' ground through the BCM circuitry via pin 15.  Pin 6 is the switched ground of ONLY the Check-Engine LED, via the engine controls schematic.  In any case, those other LEDs cannot be grounded via pin 6 without lighting the CEL!

Similarly the LEDs on the top left work exactly the same way - supplied via the common top rail (attached to "B+") and switch-grounded via the BCM circuitry, again the exception being the 'Lock' symbol, individually switch-grounded via the immobilizer circuit.

So, according to the schematic, all those indicators - with the exception of the CEL and Lock LEDs - are grounded through the common ground on pin 15.  The only answer I can think of is that there was 'enough' of a path to ground to operate the lights - as cdnite said, the ground looked 'good' via a meter - yet not enough, somehow, to allow the gauges to operate.  Though I find that hard to credit.

[Helios]

You know you're right about the "direction of flow" regarding the indicator lights. My mistake. Now, the only reason I can see on why the indicator lights worked is because they got the ground internal of the IPC through whatever internal logic circuits it contains, but are not shown in the drawing. Perhaps the DIC, speedo, tach, and fuel gauge don't require any logic circuits and don't get grounded internal of the IPC and go out via pin 15 for ground.

[Helios]

The theory of the meter reading a good ground, but it only hanging on by a strand or two isn't actually that far fetched. We had a system like that on the F-14. The speed brake system was infamous for having specific wires degrade to the point where only a few strands were holding the wire together. You would read good continuity and voltage on the multi-meter, but the system wouldn't operate. We rigged up a light bulb into the system to see whether or not it would light up when the speed brake switch was held to extend or retract.. If it didn't light then we knew that there wasn't sufficient current to light the bulb even though we read continuity and the correct voltage. I didn't think it could apply to a ground wire, but perhaps it can.

[TomatoSoup]

The theory of the meter reading a good ground, but it only hanging on by a strand or two isn't actually that far fetched. We had a system like that on the F-14. The speed brake system was infamous for having specific wires degrade to the point where only a few strands were holding the wire together. You would read good continuity and voltage on the multi-meter, but the system wouldn't operate. We rigged up a light bulb into the system to see whether or not it would light up when the speed brake switch was held to extend or retract.. If it didn't light then we knew that there wasn't sufficient current to light the bulb even though we read continuity and the correct voltage. I didn't think it could apply to a ground wire, but perhaps it can.

Exactly! And I could understand the reasons if it were a high-current device like you discuss above, but wouldn't think the stepper motors on the gauges take that much current to be affected (or not) in such a situation.  Very puzzling.

[MGar]

Did anyone have an exact picture of where G304 grounds behind the driver seat? Is it in the cabin, if so under the carpet, etc?

[TomatoSoup]

Did anyone have an exact picture of where G304 grounds behind the driver seat? Is it in the cabin, if so under the carpet, etc?

Yes, in the cabin behind the carpet:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[MGar]

Many thanks!

[CoolBreeze]

I found it! Y'all were right its was a ground.

Pin 15 grounds behind the drivers seat G304, and the wire was coming out of the terminal. I guess it had just enough contact to read as a ground on my meter but not enough for the gauge cluster to function.

--Christian

I have that same problem. How do I find the ground (I know nothing about anything). Do I push the driver's seat forward and look for the ground? Any help appreciated.

It is also the case that sometimes the car will just not start - I turn the key and nothing happens. To get it to start, I push the door lock on the key fob twice, insert the key, turn it once, pull it out, put I back in immediately, and turn it on again. This has worked many, many times. Last week nothing worked - this week it started after a few key turns, waits, and turns. Any help on this would also be greatly appreciated.

I love my car, which is why I put up with this. Thanks!!!

[Gentleman Jack]

Cool breeze-
Did you have your ignition cylinder replaced under recall?

[CoolBreeze]

Hi Gentleman Jack,

Yes, I did have it replaced. The starting problem was there before and after. Like I said, it is intermittent, so not sure if Dealer ever witnessed the problem.

[Sol Asylum]

I haven't had to eyeball the connector in question so I don't know for sure but you can try pushing the seat fwd and pulling the carpet back. You might also be able to see it by removing the armrest cover which is just clipped down in place I think you just lift at the front REAR edge and it pops up, pretty easy (SEE TS POST BELOW).

If that doesn't get you access you most likely need to pull the back bulkhead cover, lot more work for this one.

[TomatoSoup]

You might also be able to see it by removing the armrest cover which is just clipped down in place I think you just lift at the front edge and it pops up, pretty easy.

AGGGH! DANGER Will Robinson!  If removing the armrest, pull it up FROM THE REAR, then slide backward and out.  If you pull up at the front you will break the tabs there!

If G304 is the ground point in question, that's on the back wall, behind the driver seat and behind the waterfall.  No access by just lifting the carpet, I'm afraid.

More detail on opening-up the interior may be found here: http://www.cherod.com/solstice/HowTos/SoundDeadening.htm

G304 is item 6 here:

[DrJones]

Hi Gentleman Jack,

Yes, I did have it replaced. The starting problem was there before and after. Like I said, it is intermittent, so not sure if Dealer ever witnessed the problem.

When it doesn't start does the dash go blank except for the Immobilizer icon (little car with a pad lock)? If so it's probably a ground.

I've had this happen when I've been working with wiring on the race car (removed 10 lbs wiring recently). I forget to hook up one of the many grounds and the BCM and/or the ECM don't like it so they go into lock down. Find the ground and hook it up and bang, works just fine.

[roxer]

So Helios, AE, AT or AMH?

[scanner]

According to the schematic above: 1. not all I/O circuits are shown. 2. The schematic does show two ground circuits 15+16.  No surprises here. When exposure to challenges are considered the IP,,bcm etc, are nice tidy protected systems, we cannot say the same for wiring.

I'm glad you found it and so many suggestions here.
Clear Skies!

[CoolBreeze]

When it doesn't start does the dash go blank except for the Immobilizer icon (little car with a pad lock)? If so it's probably a ground.

I've had this happen when I've been working with wiring on the race car (removed 10 lbs wiring recently). I forget to hook up one of the many grounds and the BCM and/or the ECM don't like it so they go into lock down. Find the ground and hook it up and bang, works just fine.

Well, I hope it wasn't a ground, but I bet you are correct. I paid $800 for towing and a new BCM. Everything is fine now. Not being any kind of mechanic, I suppose I am just at the mercy of my local GM dealership.

Of all of the tunes on this board, can you recommend one? Thanks