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Author Topic: V8 worth the costs?  (Read 28385 times)

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Offline GXPinKC

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2013, 01:15:45 PM »
You had a V8 Ron?

Yes, John, Carol and I have the original sticker and plenty of pictures of our pride and joy.  And to hear that big V8 thunder was AWESOME!  VIN# 2G2FV22P0S2204630...Carol and I special ordered our 1995 Firebird Formula from Lotspeich Motors located in
Warrensburg, Missouri and the standard vehicle price was $19,099.00 and with options, 2,732.00 including $500.00 Destination charge...$22,331.00 total for one sweet looking bird that provided tons of fun and excitement.  Pontiac was noted for that indeed!
Code 1100, Order#KCPDVV 04-28-2006, Delivery: 12-27-2006 

2007 Aggressive GXP, 5-speed, Ebony Leather seats w red accent stitching, Chrome Wheels, Air, 6-Disc, Monsoon, Sport Metallic Pedals & Premium Headliner.

MSRP $30,300 less $1,000 GMMC credit.  Deal: $28,180. ($2,120 under MSRP).


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Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2013, 01:16:45 PM »
I have no problem admitting it's about the sound, however I don't see anyway around the argument that the less strain a power source has placed on it (theorectically) the longer it should last. 

That is a valid consideration assuming you intend to own the car for many years.

But you do realize that the logical conclusion of that is that the V8 isn't the best choice either, the low stressed (in terms of output per displacement) Viper engine would have to be the winner. Clearly much more reliable and long lasting to get 500 BHP or whatever out of an 8 litre + engine than a more highly stressed smaller displacement V8!

(Viper = usually around 60 BHP/litre.  My 1958 MG did better than that!)
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
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Bill in BC

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2013, 01:26:57 PM »
Let's be honest.  If we were all thinking in practical terms, none of us would have these cars in the first place!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2013, 01:42:25 PM »
There is a lot more to durability then just horse power per cylinder so assuming an engine will last longer because it has more cylinders could lead you astray.  One would have to know what kind of design limits were engineered into an engine first.  You also have manufacturing processes to consider.

What I always find funny is that people compare peek hp but you really need to look a hp curves and see where that hp is relative to the engine speeds you will be running.

I actually heard someone once say "well that's little car hp" as a way to rip on a 4 banger, hp is hp there is no distinction based on what the engine is installed in.  I think a lot of people that are pro V8 and "piss on anything that ain't" don't understand the technology behind how the engine is doing the work of the big engines of old.  A lot of these are the same people that put the biggest 4 barrel carb on their car because more is better and then wonder why their cars don't hardly run or are actually slower all while burning more gas.
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Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2013, 01:53:30 PM »
I actually heard someone once say "well that's little car hp" as a way to rip on a 4 banger, hp is hp there is no distinction based on what the engine is installed in.  I think a lot of people that are pro V8 and "piss on anything that ain't" don't understand the technology behind how the engine is doing the work of the big engines of old.  A lot of these are the same people that put the biggest 4 barrel carb on their car because more is better and then wonder why their cars don't hardly run or are actually slower all while burning more gas.

The LNF is the shining example of a 4 cylinder that puts out small V8 power stock and bigger V8 power tuned, along with impressive torque.

Your mention of the big 4 bbl carb reminds me of a guy I knew. He had a Chrysler sixpack (I use the same set up on one of my cars) and the darned thing will flow over 1200 cfm with everything open, but the factory had vacuum actuated secondaries to prevent the fire from going out if the engine got too much at once.

This twit converted to mechanical secondary operation 'cause that's what all the racers do' and wound up with a car that would stumble and almost stall if he floored it down low, but he stubbornly insisted that his way was better.    :banghead:
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline Brazen17

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2013, 02:50:28 PM »
Yes, John, Carol and I have the original sticker and plenty of pictures of our pride and joy.  And to hear that big V8 thunder was AWESOME!  VIN# 2G2FV22P0S2204630...Carol and I special ordered our 1995 Firebird Formula from Lotspeich Motors located in
Warrensburg, Missouri and the standard vehicle price was $19,099.00 and with options, 2,732.00 including $500.00 Destination charge...$22,331.00 total for one sweet looking bird that provided tons of fun and excitement.  Pontiac was noted for that indeed!

I think Critterman was yanking your chain a bit Ron...   :lol:
08 Brazen GXP.  GMPP tune + new IC!, Magnaflow exhaust, DDM backbone and brace, rear Z0K sway bar, Eiback springs, debadged (mostly) and dechromed(mostly), black door handles, Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 on 19" MODA1 wheels, color matching boomerang.

Offline Brazen17

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2013, 02:52:48 PM »
There is a lot more to durability then just horse power per cylinder so assuming an engine will last longer because it has more cylinders could lead you astray.  One would have to know what kind of design limits were engineered into an engine first.  You also have manufacturing processes to consider.

What I always find funny is that people compare peek hp but you really need to look a hp curves and see where that hp is relative to the engine speeds you will be running.

I actually heard someone once say "well that's little car hp" as a way to rip on a 4 banger, hp is hp there is no distinction based on what the engine is installed in.  I think a lot of people that are pro V8 and "piss on anything that ain't" don't understand the technology behind how the engine is doing the work of the big engines of old.  A lot of these are the same people that put the biggest 4 barrel carb on their car because more is better and then wonder why their cars don't hardly run or are actually slower all while burning more gas.

This is America. More is always better. Now, supersize me!  :lol:
08 Brazen GXP.  GMPP tune + new IC!, Magnaflow exhaust, DDM backbone and brace, rear Z0K sway bar, Eiback springs, debadged (mostly) and dechromed(mostly), black door handles, Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 on 19" MODA1 wheels, color matching boomerang.

Offline baconbits

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2013, 05:05:06 PM »
The old adage goes "there's no replacement for displacement" whether it still holds true today is open for interpretation

Offline Brazen17

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2013, 06:23:42 PM »
The old adage goes "there's no replacement for displacement" whether it still holds true today is open for interpretation

Since the typical top fuel dragster displaces ~496 c.i. and makes 7.5k to 8k hp it certainly holds true for drag racing. Same goes for NASCAR. The current record holder for the Nürburgring is held by a Radical SR8 with a 2.7L engine but it is a V8. I guess it still pretty much holds true through today.
08 Brazen GXP.  GMPP tune + new IC!, Magnaflow exhaust, DDM backbone and brace, rear Z0K sway bar, Eiback springs, debadged (mostly) and dechromed(mostly), black door handles, Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 on 19" MODA1 wheels, color matching boomerang.

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2013, 06:40:36 PM »
Since the typical top fuel dragster displaces ~496 c.i. and makes 7.5k to 8k hp it certainly holds true for drag racing. Same goes for NASCAR. The current record holder for the Nürburgring is held by a Radical SR8 with a 2.7L engine but it is a V8. I guess it still pretty much holds true through today.

Well.....maybe not so much.
You can't discount things like the Ecotec dragster that produces 1450 BHP.

6.71 for non-rail is pretty good
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/ecotec-powered-dragster-claims-new-four-cylinder-world-record-with-quarter-mile-run-of-671-seconds-ar131356.html
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline Critterman

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2013, 07:18:39 PM »
F1 cars are a 2.4 V8,  I think they put out a little bit of HP.   And yes Ron I was pulling your chain.
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Offline miller11386

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2013, 08:17:22 PM »
The old adage goes "there's no replacement for displacement" whether it still holds true today is open for interpretation

My favorite counter to that is on the back of my supra:

"Technology is the replacement for cubic inches"
Check out Miller's Youtube Channel HERE

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2013, 10:24:29 PM »
Comparing NASCAR, NHRA and Formula1 to street cars is like comparing apples to 747's.  Those engines are rebuilt (or replaced) after every race.  I'm not advocating an "old school" carbureted V8 with a big lumpy cam as the way to go, here.  There's no arguing that modern tech isn't awesome.  But does anyone here honestly believe that a MODIFIED LNF will ever out-power a MODIFIED LS9, for example?   

Offline Brazen17

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2013, 11:00:39 PM »
Well.....maybe not so much.
You can't discount things like the Ecotec dragster that produces 1450 BHP.

6.71 for non-rail is pretty good
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/ecotec-powered-dragster-claims-new-four-cylinder-world-record-with-quarter-mile-run-of-671-seconds-ar131356.html

I don't discount anything. And while those are certainly impressive numbers in anyone's book for an ecotec engine (and I have nothing against 4 cylinder engines as evidenced by our owning a Redline and a GXP) it is lightyears away from 3.728 @ 329.91 mph. That's almost 3 full seconds and 200 mph! In racing, that's a lifetime.
08 Brazen GXP.  GMPP tune + new IC!, Magnaflow exhaust, DDM backbone and brace, rear Z0K sway bar, Eiback springs, debadged (mostly) and dechromed(mostly), black door handles, Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 on 19" MODA1 wheels, color matching boomerang.

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2013, 11:32:12 PM »
.  Those engines are rebuilt (or replaced) after every race. 

Actually, every 40 races for the Ecotec race engines.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 11:08:35 AM by wspohn »
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline miller11386

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2013, 07:35:15 AM »
Actually, every 40 races.

I dont know where you got your info, but I know the top fuel drag cars are rebuilt after every pass. The NASCAR engines are pulled after every race for most funded race teams as well. As far as F1 and the others, I am unsure what they do.
Check out Miller's Youtube Channel HERE

Offline Critterman

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2013, 09:30:56 AM »
F1 has 8 engines for the entire 19 race season.  So each engine has to last 2.375 races, 5.64 practice sessions, and between 2.3 and 5.6 qualifying sessions.
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension
Lambo Doors

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2013, 10:08:33 AM »
How long do you think the LNF will last without rebuilding the internals if you keep adding all the power.  Dropping in a V8 gives you more power than a LNF with Westers and a lifetime of enjoyment without having to worry about the internals breaking down.

Offline bun1t

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2013, 12:55:44 PM »
How long do you think the LNF will last without rebuilding the internals if you keep adding all the power.  Dropping in a V8 gives you more power than a LNF with Westers and a lifetime of enjoyment without having to worry about the internals breaking down.

How many LNF's can you buy with $15k?

I'm not saying that V8 swapping is a bad idea but spending $15k on it is. Spending $15k to get performance equal to spending $1000 on a LNF is just ridiculous. I like V8's too but I'd rather have A/C and the extra $14k in my bank account.


Offline ChopTop

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2013, 02:37:04 PM »
Assuming the 15 figure is dependent on DIY vs professional installation considering 50% of that figure is probably labor/profit?

I think what stops a lot of us from dropping V8s (or any engine conversion) in isn't the work it's the technical expertise that's also needed for modern conversions.  Add in there's no comprehensive DIY V8 installation guide available.

My opinion is that most conversion business's want to keep the knowledge in order to profit on the time & effort it took them to figure out how to do it.  However, I believe there will always be enough individuals around who'd rather leave it to others (or pay someone) to get what they want.

I know of one vendor who advertises a Kappa V8 engine harness, but that doesn't mean that's all there is too an successful engine conversion.

I've said it once but I'll say it again.  Regardless of the modification I've always NEEDED big pretty pictures AND clearly written instructions.  Because even with those it always seems to take me twice as long as everyone else to complete the simplest modification.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 02:45:14 PM by ChopTop »

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2013, 03:06:54 PM »
I'm just going to put two LNFs in my Solstice. That way, all the 4 banger aficionados will love my car because it has two of them and all the V8 power mongers will acknowledge the awesomeness of having 8 cylinders.
May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2013, 03:19:25 PM »
I'm just going to put two LNFs in my Solstice. That way, all the 4 banger aficionados will love my car because it has two of them and all the V8 power mongers will acknowledge the awesomeness of having 8 cylinders.

You can do it even cheaper than that.  Just get a really quiet exhaust system and then put a large speaker under the car fed by a recording taken at the local tractor pull or drag race.  If anyone asks to see the engine after you blow them off with your supposed V8, just tell them it is a secret!
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline ihawk95

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2013, 04:41:52 PM »
^^^  Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

OK, I own a car with a V8.  Not an anything special V8, but a V8.  There is something about that car and the sound that I always enjoy.  Maybe because I only see it a few times a year?  I don't know.

Not that my little N/A with the Solo doesn't sound good.  And yeah, I've considered dropping in a V8 for mine.  It's not like I plan on getting rid of the car.  I'm not so sure it will be as fun in the twisties.  Fast and straight is great and I love it, but I could go fast and straight any day of the week until 1-1/2 years ago.

Offline Brazen17

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2013, 05:20:07 PM »
I wonder how much more a V8 would have added to the Kappa if it would have been an option?
08 Brazen GXP.  GMPP tune + new IC!, Magnaflow exhaust, DDM backbone and brace, rear Z0K sway bar, Eiback springs, debadged (mostly) and dechromed(mostly), black door handles, Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 on 19" MODA1 wheels, color matching boomerang.

Offline tazz

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2013, 06:08:41 PM »
I was not going to post because everything has been covered then i thought i will post.  For me I own a V8 supercharged Ford truck with a custom exhaust and tuned and the sound of the 5.4 V8 with the Supercharger is priceless and I wish the Sol had a V8 in it.  With that said I can choose depending on what mood I'm in and which one to drive each one has there place.  The truck has 450whp and 500wtq and is darn right scary loud when it down kicks from 60.  Ive had cars almost go off the road because they were startled by the sound of the exhaust coupled with the whine of the supercharger.  The truck will just plain roast the tires 200 ft if i let it and will just plain throw you back in your seat there so much tq the line is almost flat from 2500 to 5500.  I want that in the Sol but honestly the truck is 5500lbs and its hard to control with the power the Sol would be near impossible for me  to control with that much power so I'm happy with where its at now.  Would it be fun yes but for me it would be a deadly combo so I'm happy to own a truck that can kill most cars on the road and a roadster that can kill most cars on the road a win win situation for me. :-)
Yes that's a custom made Brazillian Cherry Wood Floor in the bed.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 06:18:59 PM by tazz »

 

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