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Author Topic: V8 worth the costs?  (Read 28386 times)

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Offline Critterman

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2013, 06:12:31 PM »
nothing beats the sound of a supercharger in full song.
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Offline LatinVenom

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2013, 06:27:03 PM »
To me is $$ spend vs performance gained. I do not want to put that kind of money out so I can hear the V8 rumble.
I let people make the expenditure and wait for them to get tire and pick one up for half of what they spend, or better yet buy a C7 in a year or so.
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Mods: Magnaflow 2.5" exhaust, DDM Backbone & ProBeam,ZOK suspension,LV Kappa Front Chassis Brace, BTF Turbo Upgraded Wheel, Windristrictor, JPM Center console,arms,tulip,side doors,DDM Upgraded wheel tune.

Offline L-N-Fn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2013, 02:17:37 AM »
No, unless you like the sound.
 
coupe 993 5mt. GMPP CAI, GMPP tune+ HPT, 3 inch catlles ext. Dejon Inter cooler and Piping, AME water meth, Garrett Manifold, EFR 6758, Werks springs, 2010 Cobalt lifters, 5th injector, CCW Werks rims 275 front-295 rear. Zok cross member, sway bars. 407 WHP.
Coupe 993 5mt. GMPP CAI, GMPP tune+ HPT, 3 inch catless ext. Dejon cooler and Piping, AME water meth, Garrett Manifold, EFR 6758, Werks springs, 2010 lifters, 5th injector,E43, CCW Werks rims285 front-305 rear PScup's. Zok cross member, sway bars, back bone, LVFB. 407 WHP.

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2013, 05:42:19 AM »
Brand new engine with no addons or turbo is over $4100. 
Rebuilt Solstice engine to support power 6k
Turbo upgrades + other work tuning, clutch, etc... 3k

V8 is starting to sound just fine

Offline Critterman

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2013, 09:42:57 AM »
V8's always sound 'just fine'
2006 Cool named BIXABEL (BISH-AH-BEL) Mayan for "Good Roads"

DDM
StageIII intercooled Supercharger, Wisco ceramic coated pistons, Carrillo rods, superTech valves and Springs
Ported and polished head
Exedy Stage II Clutch
big brake kit, slotted/drilled Rotors w/Porterfield pads & blue juice
Backbone, Probeam, Cross Strut Brace
Underhood, trunk, & door Lights
ZOK suspension
Lambo Doors

JPM
Center console, door inserts, & dash
Seat bolster & lumbar support

Focuztech Tri-Y Header & hi-flow cat
Solo Performance SQR-2
Norm's Rear facia
Heated Seats
Black Cat inserts

Offline DaveOC

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2013, 10:20:04 AM »
V8's always sound 'just fine'

I remember very clearly a time back in 1965, I was standing at the foot of the straight at Road America, and there was a Ferrari and a Corvette leading the race by a big margin.  The Ferrari (V12) would come around the corner and launch up the straight, up the hill, and you could hear that beautiful V12 wail as he went through the gears. Then the Corvette would do the same thing, and you'd hear the totally different sound of the V8 going through the gears.  Both were wonderful, pure sounds!
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Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2013, 10:48:05 AM »
I remember very clearly a time back in 1965, I was standing at the foot of the straight at Road America, and there was a Ferrari and a Corvette leading the race by a big margin.  The Ferrari (V12) would come around the corner and launch up the straight, up the hill, and you could hear that beautiful V12 wail as he went through the gears. Then the Corvette would do the same thing, and you'd hear the totally different sound of the V8 going through the gears.  Both were wonderful, pure sounds!

Yup - the V12 is my favourite.  I've gone out for a drive at 5:00 AM just to be able to enjoy the sound going through a tunnel - everything seems to sound better in the early morning air.  But the straight six is very good as well, with the right car and right exhaust.
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
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Offline ihawk95

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2013, 11:32:01 AM »
I wonder how much more a V8 would have added to the Kappa if it would have been an option?

Actually, the Kappa was designed for with a future V8 option in mind.  Unfortunately, the brands didn't live long enough to make that happen.

Offline ihawk95

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2013, 11:34:44 AM »
Damn I miss my supercharger too.  :(

When the GXP came out...I drove one and thought about it.  At the time, my daily driver was supercharged.  I figured I already had my get up and go car so I didn't care about the GXP so much.

Now I don't have a get up and go car, and I do miss it.

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2013, 11:55:08 AM »
Actually, the Kappa was designed for with a future V8 option in mind.  Unfortunately, the brands didn't live long enough to make that happen.

I think you are right about the intentional ample engine bay space, but I would have to say that I would never have expected them to actually install a V8 in the Kappa. GM was quick to quash the turbo Fiero idea that made it through the prototype stage because it gave Corvette performance for less money.  The same thing would have applied with the Kappa V8, unless they had mandated a low power V8, and that wouldn't have made much sense because the whole point of the LNF engine was that it gave the same power as a small modestly tuned V8 with better fuel economy.

I just see a factory Kappa V8 as being pretty unlikely, but the large engine bay was certainly a bonus for modifiers later on.

What I want to know is if there is room to stick another LNF in line with the existing one (if you move the existing one back a bit, maybe).  Anyone for an 800 BHP DOHC straight 8??
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline bun1t

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2013, 12:11:23 PM »
Brand new engine with no addons or turbo is over $4100. 
Rebuilt Solstice engine to support power 6k
Turbo upgrades + other work tuning, clutch, etc... 3k

V8 is starting to sound just fine

Lol what? How is that relevant in any way? Did your Solstice not come with an engine?

We're comparing a bolt on, tuned LNF to a $15k V8 swap package. I certainly didn't need to buy a brand new engine, rebuild it, or upgrade my turbo to run mid 12's. Yes in the long run a LSx will make more power and probably do so more reliably, but you'll more than likely spend more than the value of the car just in mods.

If someone were to do it in their own garage, they would probably drop that cost by more than half. A V8 swap at that price becomes much more attractive and if my LNF ever went, it would be something I would consider. An LS2 with a Vortech in a Sky would be a lot of fun.

Offline ihawk95

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2013, 12:55:29 PM »
I think you are right about the intentional ample engine bay space, but I would have to say that I would never have expected them to actually install a V8 in the Kappa. GM was quick to quash the turbo Fiero idea that made it through the prototype stage because it gave Corvette performance for less money.  The same thing would have applied with the Kappa V8, unless they had mandated a low power V8, and that wouldn't have made much sense because the whole point of the LNF engine was that it gave the same power as a small modestly tuned V8 with better fuel economy.

I just see a factory Kappa V8 as being pretty unlikely, but the large engine bay was certainly a bonus for modifiers later on.

What I want to know is if there is room to stick another LNF in line with the existing one (if you move the existing one back a bit, maybe).  Anyone for an 800 BHP DOHC straight 8??
I talked to one of the engineers assigned to the Kappa platform about it and that is what he told me. They may have had the racing circuit in mind with the v8 option. I clearly remember he said they made certain there was room to shoehorn a V8 in the engine bay and it was considered as a future option.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 01:00:51 PM by ihawk95 »

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2013, 01:07:56 PM »
I talked to one of the engineers assigned to the Kappa platform about it and that is what he told me.

Oh I agree about their intention, sorry if that wasn't clear from my post, I just don't think it would have ever gone anywhere.
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline ihawk95

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2013, 01:22:54 PM »
Maybe not, but don't you think they would have had to do something eventually had the brands survived? GM trolled the forums. They saw all the performance mods happening. And they were very excited about how well the kappas were doing in the racing circuits. This engineer was active on the forums back in the day also. He may still troll them, but I don't go on them much anymore.

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2013, 01:26:12 PM »
Maybe not, but don't you think they would have had to do something eventually had the brands survived?

Not quite sure what you mean by that, but I stand by my statement that Chevrolet/GM would never allow any other division to produce a sports vehicle directly competitive with the Corvette.  Sticking a V8 in the Kappa would fall under that category I think.
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2013, 02:36:31 PM »
Lol what? How is that relevant in any way? Did your Solstice not come with an engine?

We're comparing a bolt on, tuned LNF to a $15k V8 swap package. I certainly didn't need to buy a brand new engine, rebuild it, or upgrade my turbo to run mid 12's. Yes in the long run a LSx will make more power and probably do so more reliably, but you'll more than likely spend more than the value of the car just in mods.

If someone were to do it in their own garage, they would probably drop that cost by more than half. A V8 swap at that price becomes much more attractive and if my LNF ever went, it would be something I would consider. An LS2 with a Vortech in a Sky would be a lot of fun.
No, I was referring to my replacement idea, not what I'm currently using but when this one is done...  I'm also one who is looking for the sound, not through a speaker mounted under the fender :lol:

Offline LatinVenom

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2013, 04:36:36 PM »
Joe.
Why not use the money when the times comes to go ahead and get a C7.
Solstice GXP 2007.
Aggressive and fully loaded.
Mods: Magnaflow 2.5" exhaust, DDM Backbone & ProBeam,ZOK suspension,LV Kappa Front Chassis Brace, BTF Turbo Upgraded Wheel, Windristrictor, JPM Center console,arms,tulip,side doors,DDM Upgraded wheel tune.

Offline ihawk95

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2013, 05:05:46 PM »
Not quite sure what you mean by that, but I stand by my statement that Chevrolet/GM would never allow any other division to produce a sports vehicle directly competitive with the Corvette.  Sticking a V8 in the Kappa would fall under that category I think.

I'm saying they would have had to do something to keep the platform fresh and give people more performance options as the platform aged.  They already came out with the Tune for the lnf.  People still wanted more.  At some point, they would have either needed to kill the platform or add more performance packages.

I would argue the point that GM wouldn't put a V8 in a Kappa.  I seem to recall they put Vette engines in Camaros and TransAm, which you could argue...in the convertible version, was in direct competition with the Corvettes  in the 1990's.  They were certainly fairly similar in styling during that time.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the Kappa would have been at a lower price point than the Vette.  Those that couldn't afford a Vette would still be drawn to a Kappa.  People that want Vettes would still buy a Vette because they would probably snub their noses at the Kappa.  The market groups are similar but different.  Vettes actually have trunk space...we almost have one.  Vettes have nice interiors, better ride, better handling, etc, etc.  We are no frills in comparison.  Hell I have a Kappa and I still want a Vette.  I also have a Camaro.  But I wouldn't give up my Kappa for a Vette...no way.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 05:11:29 PM by ihawk95 »

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2013, 05:16:28 PM »
I'm saying they would have had to do something to keep the platform fresh and give people more performance options as the platform aged.  They already came out with the Tune for the lnf.  People still wanted more.  At some point, they would have either needed to kill the platform or add more performance packages.

I would argue the point that GM wouldn't put a V8 in a Kappa.  I seem to recall they put Vette engines in Camaros and TransAm, which you could argue...in the convertible version, was in direct competition with the Corvettes  in the 1990's.  They were certainly fairly similar in styling during that time.

1 - Camaros and other pony cars (more like 'Clydesdale cars today') are not sports cars, but I think it is true that they do compete for potential Corvette dollars with some customers.  The Corvette has always been GMs premier sports car as distinct from sporting sedans, even when the performance envelopes of the two overlap.  The Kappa was a true sports car as well, the only other one GM made. That's why they'd never have allowed a cheaper equal perfromance Kappa.

2 - the Kappa was a dead platform as of the end of 2010 anyway so there would have been no V8 version - it wasn't planned. Back in 2005 when they were laying the cars out, the best thing to do was to build in the greatest flexibility so anything GM decided they wanted to do would be possible without major redesign.  It would be interesting to know if they ever seriously thought about using one of their new high tech DOHC V6 engines in the Kappa. The V6 used in the Camaro is fairly impressive, for instance.
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline ihawk95

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2013, 05:38:15 PM »
I beg to differ regarding certain years of Camaros not being sports cars.  The early generations and the later generations...I completely agree with you.  Definitely not sports cars.  The styling and handling...completely different animals.

3rd & 4th gen Camaros vs Vettes...very similar in appearance to the Vettes out at the time and high end camaros had low end vette engines.  I consider my 3rd gen camaro a sports car and feel they stepped away from the pony or muscle car image they had in the early generations and the generations now.  My 3rd Gen camaro could hug some corners back in the day and handled fairly well.  OK, Camaros have back seats.  If your definition of a sports car is any 2 seat performance type vehicle, then it's not one.  I'm not sure why they bothered to put a backseat with no leg room in the car.  You certainly couldn't sit in it without laying across it.  You'd be more comfortable laying in the trunk space to be honest.

Maybe the Vettes at the time aren't considered sports cars.  They are basically boxes in my opinion.  I might add...I was a child of the 80's so I was too late to the muscle car party and therefore the Camaros and Trans Ams of my childhood/teenage years in the 80's more closely resembled Corvettes.  Therefore to me, I class those years the same.  We can agree to disagree on those years.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 05:46:55 PM by ihawk95 »

Offline wspohn

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2013, 05:53:54 PM »
Yes, it can be an entertaing discussion abouit what is or is not a sports car and the definitions of 3rd parties like the SCCA come into it.
As you expect, I generally hold out for 2 seats for it to be a sports car. The Camaro had much more rear seat than other cars like my old Jag XK150 or the Porsche 911, both really useful only for packages and totally usesless for human beings unless they were double amputee dwarves.
1958 MGA Twincam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1969 MGC roadster,
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1965 Jensen CV8,
1971 Jensen Interceptor
1969 Lamborghini Islero S
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
Bill in BC

Offline DeepBlueGXP

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2013, 08:00:21 PM »
Joe.
Why not use the money when the times comes to go ahead and get a C7.

Now that is a novel idea.

Offline miller11386

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2013, 08:59:35 PM »
Now that is a novel idea.

even more novel, just pickup a nice used C6...mod price for a v8 sky would be very close to the price of a reasonable mileage c6..

they are now trickling into the mid 20's....
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2013, 12:03:43 AM »
even more novel, just pickup a nice used C6...mod price for a v8 sky would be very close to the price of a reasonable mileage c6..

they are now trickling into the mid 20's....

Except they're all slow....
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Offline IBDRINKEN

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Re: V8 worth the costs?
« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2013, 05:02:21 PM »
So let me ask this would it be better to buy a used n/a if your going to do the V8 swap vs the Gxp
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