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Author Topic: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!  (Read 7934 times)

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Offline werks

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We just concluded testing on our WERKSracing LNF/LHU Phenolic Spacer set on Kyle's 2012 Buick Regal GS and the results speak for themselves!
 
+11whp gain
+1ftlb TQ gain
- 73(F) degree drop in Intake manifold surface temperature!

Kyle's Beautiful Regal GS -


Before Phenolic Spacers immediately after dyno pull-

 

After Phenolic Spacers immediately after dyno pull -


Before and after results -

 
Purchase the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer set for $144.99 here -
http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=334_419_421&products_id=1880
Dave Gilbert
Performance Autowerks, Inc.
Phone - 815-439-4547
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WERKS MAX Power Solstice GXP LNF - "50 Trim" WERKs turbo - 109 Octane - 415whp/428ftlbs
Anthony's SKY Redline LNF - GT35R - 93 Octane/Water/Meth - 442whp/414ftlbs
Ricky's Solstice LE5 '50 trim" WERKS turbo - 93 Octane/Water/Meth - 374whp/358ftlbs
Matt's Cobalt SS LNF Billet 55/57 WERKs turbo - 93 Octane - 442whp/450ftlbs
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Offline cdnite

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 01:27:44 PM »
Impressive were any other changes made?


--Christian

Offline cdnite

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 01:32:41 PM »
I ask because I have a set already and was planning to do the install this weekend. The numbers look good but I would have expected them inverse.

I would have expected the longer runner length to yield a 10lbs/ft torque and a 1hp improvement... That's about what you see on most 5.0 Foxes with the same type of part.

Hmmm... Longer runner marginal torque lower temps better HP.... I need to test this!

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 01:39:00 PM »

Hmmm... Longer runner marginal torque lower temps better HP.... I need to test this!

Yeah the almost negligible torque gain given the HP gain seemed odd to me.  The pulls where done on two different days, wonder if there is an atmospheric variable.
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Offline Johnny-Longtorso

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 03:25:40 PM »
Not to rain on anyone's parade - but in the Mustang world these have proven largely useless for anything other than adding a little (and in this case - very little) runner length / port volume.  After a time all parts under the hood tend to assume a fairly similar temperature, even with spacers over 1".  I see no reason why these should be any different - but I'm certainly interested to hear what others think.

I'd like to see a car dyno'd both before and after an install when driven for 30 minutes on a summer day immediately prior to the pull.  My experience (again, based on accounts of dozens of Mustang owners) tells me it will be net zero difference.
Your highly detailed mods signature, while impressive, really really screws up Google & site searches.

Offline redlinedude

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 09:44:18 PM »
I looked up the weather info for Plainfield, IL on weatherforyou.com.

Around the time of the first dyno on 5/13/13 the temp was 64 deg F, avg humidity was 18% and barometric pressure was 29.68 in

http://www.weatherforyou.com/reports/index.php?config=&forecast=obarchive&icao=KLOT&day=3&place=plainfield&state=il&zipcode=60544&country=us&county=17197&zone=ILZ022&icao=KLOT


Around the time of the second dyno on 5/14/13 the temp was 81 deg F, avg humidity was 32% and barometric pressure was 30.06 in

http://www.weatherforyou.com/reports/index.php?config=&forecast=obarchive&icao=KLOT&day=2&place=plainfield&state=il&zipcode=60544&country=us&county=17197&zone=ILZ022&icao=KLOT
 
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Offline redlinedude

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 09:56:04 PM »
Did you run the same tests on the Sky Redline and/or Solstice GXP?
Are the gains in hp, torque and intake temp reduction the same?
Would the hp and torque gains be less due to the front engine/front wheel drive
Regal versus our front engine/rear wheel drive Kappa due to drivetrain loss?
Drove My Redline home top down on 12/12/06
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Offline 1LILNDN

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 08:48:50 AM »
Thats a good ?  on the Buick is one thing but the Sky & Solstice are rear wheel drive. and the weather report for 2 different days ?
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Offline JoshMcMadMac

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2013, 10:25:55 AM »
Yeah the almost negligible torque gain given the HP gain seemed odd to me.  The pulls where done on two different days, wonder if there is an atmospheric variable.
Area under the curve is greater, which is much more impressive than the peak numbers.  I am not sold on it, but at least they are trying to prove this mod out unlike some others they have advertised.

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 11:04:26 AM »
Could you (Werks) explain how this mod works?  What is the theory behind it?  If 1" is good, why not make it 6"?

Thanks!
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Offline ophidia31

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 04:07:13 PM »
Its kind of obvious why these work better on an FI car than a NA mustang. If the mustang had some sort of FI on it, Im sure the numbers would have changed. Any way to keep the charge coolest from the intercooler to the intake would help. A heatsoaked manifold is doing nothing but reheating the charge a little bit. Sure, extended runner length has a little to do with it, but its more of the "keeping things cool" part. There were similar gains with guys using phenolic spacers on the l67 (supercharged 3800) motors. Its all about getting rid of detonation and any bit helps.
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Offline Omiotek

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 06:55:24 PM »
Could you (Werks) explain how this mod works?  What is the theory behind it?  If 1" is good, why not make it 6"?

Thanks!

these work my spacing the intake manifold away from the cylinder head by eliminating heat transfer between to the 2 for the most part. they spacer is made of phenolic and hense why its able to help prevent heat transfer. the idea is to help keep the charge air cool. the cooler the charge air in a forced induction applications the better.

theres no need to make such a large spacer. most guys it seems in todays market want something they can do themselves. which in all honesty this can be done without lifting the car and can be done with basic hand tools. supplying a huge spacer would completely make this something a shop would have to do for the most part. the reason i say this is because a larger spacer will require modification to the dip stick, intake manifold brackets, charge pipes(more then likely), and various other things. this a bolt on deal and the only thing that is supplied other then the spacers itself is some bolts/washers etc. it was proven that it will do its work weather its a few dyno pulls, street driving or on a race track.  from driving cars around here with these on there after seeing motor temps around 200 degrees F i can tell you the intake manifold is warm to the touch not scolding hot like it would normaly be without the spacers.

Offline redlinedude

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 12:44:03 AM »
Due to the lack of response From Werksracing to my question (since May 15th), The "HP gains" for the Kappa platform must be too small to disclose????
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Offline Omiotek

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 10:09:04 AM »
the tests were done on a regal...... the difference in power will pretty much be the same as its the same motor. same thing with inlet manifold temps......fwd or not its the same turbo configuration minus the piping on a regal is plastic and the intercooler is a little bit different. if anything the regal is much more restrictive imho.  no tuning was done to the regal to make the gains that we saw.

the whole point of these isn't a power adder. its what I stated before. its about keeping the heat off the inlet manifold to help keep the charge air cool. less heatsoak is always better. so even if they made no gains the cooling alone for a cheap part is well worth it imho because you will be able to sustain power for longer periods of time with cooler inlet temps.

gains were stated above. 11whp. torque was negligible. my car and others that have reviewed the product that drive it hard on a road corse have all said that you can pretty much lay your hand on the manifold and its warm to the touch BUT its not scolding hot like it would normally be without the spacer in there.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 10:15:14 AM by Omiotek »

Offline spartan

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 12:31:02 PM »
Omiotek,

    Do you have procedures for removing the intake manifold in order to install.  What I have now is basically a. take off manifold and b. install, which I do not feel comfortable initiating.  It does not look as easy as advertised to me.  Thanks.

Offline Omiotek

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2013, 09:44:06 AM »
i hate to sound like a d*ck here but don't take it that way because its not intended to sound like that.

if your not comfortable doing the job take it to a shop that is. i say that with anything someone says they are not comfortable with installing or removing parts because a lot of times it ends up in errors or damage. i personally don't intend to do a how to on it but its pretty straight forward as far as the installation goes. hardest part is getting the bracket for the manifold out on the right side of the manifold. the rest is very easy.

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2013, 11:06:05 AM »
Spartan since you are an LSM go to the LSM section, download the manuals and read up on the task.  Essentially this is not much more than installing a thick gasket.
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2013, 11:20:35 AM »
Omiotek,

Yeah, that came across dick-ish. But, you preempted it with your intent, so I get it.

Does your spacer not come with instructions?  Perhaps posting the instructions here would be helpful?  Werks manufactures many parts for the DIY racer guy / gal. Instructions are going to be part of that I would think?

May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline spartan

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2013, 04:55:31 PM »
Thanks Sol Asylum...I'll see what the LSM section has on it.  I remember seeing a post on removing the manifold and it did not look like changing out a fender or adding a brace.  Guess I am spoiled by the DDM step by step PDFs which go into detail. 

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2013, 09:30:23 PM »
  Guess I am spoiled by the DDM step by step PDFs which go into detail.

Agree. Their directions are usually fantastic.
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Offline The Carrier

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 11:01:45 PM »
I suspect that you two are secret DDM agents trying to give me (a rookie) the confidence to install crazy amounts of mods when all I normally am capable of is filter and oil changes! 
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Offline Omiotek

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2013, 09:07:43 AM »
Omiotek,

Yeah, that came across dick-ish. But, you preempted it with your intent, so I get it.

Does your spacer not come with instructions?  Perhaps posting the instructions here would be helpful?  Werks manufactures many parts for the DIY racer guy / gal. Instructions are going to be part of that I would think?

yeah my intent is never to be an a**hole but sometimes thing come across that way.

as of right now I do not think they come with a whole lot of instructions. the basics are about all it comes with. its not a very hard install. HOWEVER I can talk with dave and maybe next time I get a car in here for phenolics I can snap pictures of the installation and we can print up a mini manual for you guys. only issue with that is all the manuals will have to be slightly modified since the kappas are different from the cobalts in minor ways and depending on if your car has a vacuum pump or not they can be different as well.

ill look into it.....so that means someone bring there car in for an install lol.

Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2013, 10:25:19 AM »
yeah my intent is never to be an a**hole but sometimes thing come across that way.

as of right now I do not think they come with a whole lot of instructions. the basics are about all it comes with. its not a very hard install. HOWEVER I can talk with dave and maybe next time I get a car in here for phenolics I can snap pictures of the installation and we can print up a mini manual for you guys. only issue with that is all the manuals will have to be slightly modified since the kappas are different from the cobalts in minor ways and depending on if your car has a vacuum pump or not they can be different as well.

ill look into it.....so that means someone bring there car in for an install lol.

Awesome!  I'd bring my car in, but it has the wrong 2.0L engine. And it's in California. And it doesn't need the spacer (cause its slow).
I will see if I can find someone's car to send you.
May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline Omiotek

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2013, 11:22:22 AM »
 :thumbs:

sounds good to me. we have some sets in stock!!!!!

Offline werks

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Re: 11whp gain using the WERKSracing Phenolic Spacer Set!!!
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2013, 09:21:16 AM »
Only 2 sets left as of this morning!
Dave Gilbert
Performance Autowerks, Inc.
Phone - 815-439-4547
Fax - 815-439-6751
WERKS MAX Power Solstice GXP LNF - "50 Trim" WERKs turbo - 109 Octane - 415whp/428ftlbs
Anthony's SKY Redline LNF - GT35R - 93 Octane/Water/Meth - 442whp/414ftlbs
Ricky's Solstice LE5 '50 trim" WERKS turbo - 93 Octane/Water/Meth - 374whp/358ftlbs
Matt's Cobalt SS LNF Billet 55/57 WERKs turbo - 93 Octane - 442whp/450ftlbs
www.performanceautowerks.com
info@performanceautowerks.com

 

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