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Author Topic: Bigger injectors for the LNF  (Read 17434 times)

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Offline kwtoxman

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Bigger injectors for the LNF
« on: September 06, 2013, 07:24:01 PM »
:ca2:

Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2013, 06:35:05 AM »
yup, zzp finally released this for about $340 for a set.

It will not be as effective without the bigger fuel cam lobe.....that they also sell.


Not really sure if these are really "bigger" injectors.....or just a re-cut of of the stock LNF injectors (hopefully not).  Re-cut injectors will definitely spray more......but will not atomize as good as stock injectors.    Less atomization is no good.


big injectors + big fuel cam lobe....will be a great combo compared to a 5th injector kit.



personally, I will not be purchasing these bigger injectors, since I already have the 4 port injectors on my set-up.

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Offline elff

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 10:47:26 AM »
I'd be curious if a larger injector from an existing GM car could be used.

This is just my opinion, but the way ZZP advertises stuff makes me overly cautious about their products. 
I'd want exact specs and would need to know who is making them before remotely considering this.

Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 10:54:14 AM »
not sure if DI injectors from another GM will fit or not.....nobody tried it yet.


and like what I mentioned, not sure if these "bigger injectors" are re-cut or not.   Hopefully not.   
If not, it will benefit some LNF owners esp with cam w/ bigger fuel lobes.

the cams that they sell w/ bigger fuel lobes were made by comp cams.

not sure about these new bigger injectors though.    They didnt mention any companies or any specs.
Only 14% more fuel delivery.....



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Offline cdnite

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 01:28:06 PM »
not sure if DI injectors from another GM will fit or not.....nobody tried it yet.


Not true, lots of injectors have been tried by many people. GM doesn't release much info in specs and Bosch isn't very helpful. Plus testing GDI injectors is a new science for the aftermarket. Expect more options in the near future as the corvette and mustang are going GDI.

Re ported injectors do work but the porting isn't consistent so it could take 12 injectors to get 4 similar ones, and bigger injectors can be special ordered but that's at close to $2000 each, so few have gone that route.

These are a good option and at a good price, better even than if you had done the research and bought a set on your own. The big lobe cam has seen some issues with the HPFP, which is the next bottle neck.

Funny the HPFP also has some ported options that are being worked out and custom ordered options that are in the $5000 range. So there should be something new out soon too!

--Christian

Offline elff

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 02:25:51 PM »
Its funny
For most of the people looking at these and the cams, they really don't need them.
They just need a better tune.

Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 02:30:14 PM »
Not true, lots of injectors have been tried by many people.
--Christian

Could you please elaborate and tell me among the kappa and cobalt community who tried a DI injector from another platform?

Or are you talking about "people" from Gm and Bosch?

Because I don't know any cobalt or kappa owner who has tried another DI injector that has been successful.
Or maybe I haven't been to the forum for quite some time now, and I missed a post about these many people who tried.

Thanks
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Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 02:32:40 PM »
Its funny
For most of the people looking at these and the cams, they really don't need them.
They just need a better tune.

Yeah, I really think if u wana go more than 500whp, then u might wana consider this.

Or if u really want e85 lnf and you're positive that your injectors are limiting your builf
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Offline elff

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 02:40:24 PM »
Most people could drop back to E47 and have a competent tuner adjust the Pressure and injection timing and be done.
But that would require that they shelf part of their ego
:D

Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 02:41:06 PM »


Re ported injectors do work but the porting isn't consistent so it could take 12 injectors to get 4 similar ones, and bigger injectors can be special ordered but that's at close to $2000 each, so few have gone that route.

The big lobe cam has seen some issues with the HPFP, which is the next bottle neck.

--Christian

Yes the porting injectors will work, and the consistency will be all over the place. Do u really want to buy a dozen DI injectors to match the other injector that u just ported? How about the two other injectors that you still want to match? You'll end up paying more with the labor and cost of DI injectors. Might as well buy this zzp bigger injectors. :)

Plus porting the DI injectors, do u really think that they'll atomize as good as the stock LNF injector? I don't want to chance it.


About the cams with big fuel lobe, could u please let me know what issues I have to look out for? I have one on my current set up, so I would like to know. Thanks!
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Offline elff

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 02:44:45 PM »
Your setup, due to the custom port injection will not run into the Big Fuel lobe issue.

If you click on the link in the first post, I believe on page 4 Matt from ZZP addresses the issue. 

Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 02:45:31 PM »
Most people could drop back to E47 and have a competent tuner adjust the Pressure and injection timing and be done.
But that would require that they shelf part of their ego
:D

I personally haven't used any E85 tune or used e85 at all. So I don't know.

But for those who uses E85 and would like to stick with it, will they lose any e85 benefits if they go down to e47? Detonation control? Power/tq? Etc?
Or probably e85 is just way cheaper than 93? :)
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Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 02:48:45 PM »
Your setup, due to the custom port injection will not run into the Big Fuel lobe issue.

If you click on the link in the first post, I believe on page 4 Matt from ZZP addresses the issue. 


About stressing the hpfp by having the bigger fuel lobe?

Yeah, I think we'll just push the DI system 90% max, to avoid this issue. And my PI system with its own fuel cell and pump will take care of the rest.
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Offline elff

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 03:04:35 PM »
You can tune about a 5hp diffference between E47 and E85 but with a properly tuned E47 setup, it takes much longer to run into fueling issues as half of it is 93 octane.

Yes, it makes the HPFP the next bottleneck

Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 05:30:35 PM »
You can tune about a 5hp diffference between E47 and E85 but with a properly tuned E47 setup, it takes much longer to run into fueling issues as half of it is 93 octane.

Yes, it makes the HPFP the next bottleneck

Oh ok! Glad to know.
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Offline L-N-Fn

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2013, 10:08:01 PM »
WE need a bigger HPFP. The one we have can't supply our current injectors.
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Offline SKY888

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 06:41:14 AM »
WE need a bigger HPFP. The one we have can't supply our current injectors.

i dont see in the near future having a higher flowing HPFP available, unfortunately.

a custom one...will cost thousands and thousands.


have you tried other avenues, such as using the cam w/ bigger fuel lobes?
most LNF engines w/ bigger turbos get enough fuel by just using these bigger lobes, and not even requiring to have bigger LNF injectors
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Offline wspohn

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2013, 11:49:18 AM »
I'd be curious if a larger injector from an existing GM car could be used.

This is just my opinion, but the way ZZP advertises stuff makes me overly cautious about their products. 
I'd want exact specs and would need to know who is making them before remotely considering this.

No kidding.

I looked around to try and get the figures on this stuff.  It appears that the injectors used in the LNF are the largest available - and if I did my math correctly, are the same size as the new Corvette injectors.  That makes sense - we are running cylinders of ~ 500 cc size putting out ~ 75 bhp each with a mild tune.

The New Corvette ZL1 gets 74 lb injectors (which I believe is the same as ours).
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Offline elff

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2013, 12:52:54 PM »
So kappa's are just mini-Vettes
:D

Offline wspohn

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2013, 01:20:04 PM »
So kappa's are just mini-Vettes
:D

In a way - they share the construction technology but I would have no inclination to ever own a Corvette - I prefer our handier smaller sports cars.

The ZO6 engine also used in the  2014 Z28 LS7 gets  505 BHP out of 7 litres or 72 bhp/l.  The dead stock LNF, scaled up to 7 litres would put out 910 BHP. A GMPP tuned version with decent IC would put out 1050 BHP.  Corvette, Shmorvette.

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Offline Kelu

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2013, 01:35:33 PM »
The ZO6 engine also used in the  2014 Z28 LS7 gets  505 BHP out of 7 litres or 72 bhp/l.  The dead stock LNF, scaled up to 7 litres would put out 910 BHP. A GMPP tuned version with decent IC would put out 1050 BHP.  Corvette, Shmorvette.
You talk like an european, comparing a NA port injected engine with a DI turbo engine. Dang. I would love to see you driving daily kappa with 1000hp :lol:

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Offline wspohn

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »
You talk like an european, comparing a NA port injected engine with a DI turbo engine. Dang. I would love to see you driving daily kappa with 1000hp :lol:

SIZE MATTERS

Actually it doesn't. Power matters.  I'll take the higher power engine and you can have an 8 litre Viper and I'll wave to you in my rear window! 

I like the modern generation of GM V8s, and there is no reason for GM to bother making a V8 version of the LNF except maybe as a demo, but it would certainly be interesting - most likely a 4 litre engine that would put out around 600 bhp........
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Offline elff

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2013, 01:47:58 PM »
I agree, I was just being silly
My Sky is already faster than a bunch of corvettes in my area and looks waaaaaay better.
One of my favorite day's driving was when I played with a C6. Poor guy embarassed himself in front of his 20yr younger date
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Offline Kelu

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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 01:51:39 PM »
Actually it doesn't. Power matters.  I'll take the higher power engine and you can have an 8 litre Viper and I'll wave to you in my rear window! 
We were talking about Vettes, Z06, why would you throw Viper in here?

Give me a z06 c6 corvette and same amount of money put in upgrades for a Kappa, if is the case and let's race. Stock per stock or same budget in upgrades.

Now you would go around and say Z06 is double the money, yeah, because is BETTER than a kappa.
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Re: Bigger injectors for the LNF
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2013, 02:09:04 PM »
Not better, different.

If you need to park in a garage, the corvette may not fit.  Useless. Faster does not equal better.

And bringing money in to the discussion is silly.  Buy a motorcycle. Faster, cheaper and "better" than a kappa or a vette. 
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