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Author Topic: Caliper Clearance?  (Read 2865 times)

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Offline 2kwk4u

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Caliper Clearance?
« on: October 01, 2013, 11:48:46 PM »
Anyone ever run into trouble with caliper clearance when trying out wheels for fit?  I found some knock-offs of the wheels I want for significantly less than I can get even knock-offs for in the states (can't afford/justify $1,000+ per wheel for the genuine article - and THEN have to modify them).  The problem is my car isn't here. 

So I'm looking for input and maybe a favor  :D

My concern will be caliper clearance to the back of the wheel face.  The offset of the wheels I'm looking at is +38 (on a 9.5" wide rim).  If there's room between the mounting surface and bottom of the lug seats, I'd like to have them milled some to give more offset so that they sit more flush to the outsides of the body instead of sticking out.  The problem is the more milling I have done, the closer the wheels get to the calipers.  I've done the math on everything else for inside clearance and *should be* good to go there.

What I need to know is the spacing on stock wheels between the plane of the hub mounting surface to the backside of the wheel face at the same distance from hub center as where the widest part of the stock caliper would be.  Does that sound confusing  :idk:  Also need to know how much space there is when stock wheels are mounted between the backside of the wheel face and caliper (when the brake pads are brand new and/or when the caliper is slid all the way out on the guide pins).

Can anyone hook a brother up?

Anything else I'm not thinking of?

I figure worst case if I wind up buying these wheels and they don't work out, I can re-sell them on *bay and not lose much money, if any.  Just want all the info I can get beforehand to prevent that scenario if I can.

Offline POS VETT

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 07:47:35 AM »
I understand what you are trying to achieve.

While machining the mounting pad is easy, there are strength issues that need addressing. The pad in general will be thinner and the lug seat land will diminish even quicker. This land varies from wheel to wheel but if you are thinking about milling half an inch to achieve a 50-mm effective offset, the land will be gone. Most wheels don't have even half an inch thickness in this area.

Is drilling another set of lug holes possible ? How about filling the existing one and redrilling ? How about using steel seat inserts ?


Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 11:56:08 AM »
Understand the strength issues.  I won't know how much lug seat land I have to work with until I go check them out (if the seller understands my crap Russian and answers my inquiry). 

The other option is that I've seen similar knock-offs available in 8.5" width with +35 offset for around $600 shipped.  I can send a those to weldcraft to be widened by an inch and effectively get "more offset" at the same time (since the center is now 1/2" more inboard).  Then I have to worry about re-finishing...  Ultimately when all is said and done I'd be in it for ~$2200 when I factor in shipping to weldcraft and to a finisher/chrome shop (not full bright chrome, but black/smoked).

As for the re-drill, I *could* cheat and use wobble nuts, but if I'm sending these wheels off to mill down the mounting pad, I might as well have the bolt pattern modified. 

The wheels I'm looking at are Lorinser LM6 replicas.  Similar wheels (also replicas) were on the Breckland Beira - though the company folded before they ever followed through with marketable cars.  On that car, they were 18x8.5 front and 18x9.5 rear.  I don't know what offset they were, though, and it looks like they flared the wheel arches.



As for machining the wheels I get (if I get them), I'll wait until I get back to the states and send them off to these guys:

Shaving The Backpad of a Wheel - Higher Offset

Converting a 5x114.3 bolt pattern to 5 x 112 - No Inserts Needed

Offline POS VETT

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2013, 05:20:56 PM »
I'm intrigued by the total cost for this set especially since they are replica.

I'd spend a few more hundreds and get CCW. Are you sure there isn't one in their line up that you like ? They have quite selections for styles and they can custom build a set for a nominal fee.

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2013, 09:55:08 PM »
Nothing in CCW's lineup drives me wild.  The biggest drawback, as I see it going the direction I want to is weight.  These should weigh slightly less than the stock wheels (~24 lb ea vs. ~26 lb stock), but aren't nearly as light as some other offerings - even some more affordable ones such as Enkei PF01s (currently $306/wheel at tirerack - 18.6 lb). 

The problem is I've been smitten by the LM6-type wheel since I first saw it on the Beira in late 2008 - possibly even before that. 

As for price point, here's what I'm looking at (open in google chrome for a translated version):

http://www.avito.ru/moskva/zapchasti_i_aksessuary/disk_kolesnyj_lorinser_lm-6_r-18_dlya_mersedes_151957735

Currently $1 U.S. = ~33 rubles.  So 3,000 rubles per wheel = $93.22/wheel or a full set for under 400 bones.


So back to my original question... did you take any of the measurements I'm looking for when you did your corvette hub swap? 

If not, is anyone else reading this thread?  Anyone able to take these measurements for me?   :idk: :violin:

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 12:17:33 AM »
I don't think anyone else is reading this thread.  What do you think GJ?
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Offline Gentleman Jack

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 01:25:36 AM »
I am not reading this thread.

Scott,
I am useless. I can't measure anything for you.
May the Schwartz be wit you

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 03:28:36 AM »

Scott,
I am useless. I can't measure anything for you.

Are these statements meant to be mutually exclusive? :poke:

Thanks for confirming that at least the peanut gallery is reading my thread, though :D
See, you're useful after all!

Offline POS VETT

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 08:06:16 AM »
I didn't do the Corvette hub conversion, a friend of mine did on his car. Personally, I wouldn't do it. I'd drill the rotor and hub to 5x114.3 and use studs with smaller knurl to preserve land thickness. I did a little research and calculation and came up to conclusion that it would be the route I'd take if the conversion was needed.

I didn't take any measurement but I suppose I can do something like that since I'm working on a small project to fit 19x10 CCW SP500 for the front of my Z06. Are you planning to run Z06 brakes ?

Offline Critterman

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2013, 11:15:24 AM »
Great looking wheels, I can't help you because you have my stock wheels and the kazera's have a different offset, not to mention I have the DDM front brakes.
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Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2013, 11:16:34 AM »
Nope, I'm in the camp that believes the stock brakes are sufficient with upgraded pads for my goals.  I can't justify spending the cabbage for brake upgrades that arguably provide more bling than performance benefit.  At least not anytime soon...

Offline POS VETT

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2013, 11:59:31 AM »
The stock calipers have low profiles. I won't worry too much about caliper clearance in lateral direction.

Unless you're hell bent on running 9.5" wide wheels, there is an 18x8 alternative I found on eBay. Quite a bit more pricewise sbut no machining needed. If those didn't work due to price level, they are proof that a narrower version exist.





Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2013, 10:10:33 PM »
I will try and get those numbers for you this weekend.
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Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2013, 11:05:31 AM »
Awesome, thanks SA!   :usa:

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2013, 08:19:19 PM »
So the front brake calipers are larger (big surprise right) thus the clearances are less.

Minimum clearance from the caliper to the wheel is about 1/4"

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

The distance from the hub face the wheel bolts to out to the caliper is about 3/4", the hub face is inset from the caliper.

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The brakes have about 4500 miles on them so they are practically new.  I didn't measure the rear brakes because the front ones will be the critical dimensions but if you need them let me know.
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Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2013, 09:34:32 PM »
Awesome, SA.  How do I give you karma?  Can't figure out how that works (applaud/smite)

How fresh are your brake pads?  It looks like your caliper itself sits maybe 1/32" to 1/16" farther out from the caliper bracket (which is a solid mount).  Is that the case, or are my eyes fooling me?  I wonder how much more it will walk out on the guide pins with fresh pads and/or warped rotors.  In other words, what would the physical limit worst-case?  Would that be limited by the guide pins or minimum inside pad thickness (say, in the case of total neglect and sticking calipers/corroded pins).

Elff and/or Critterman, are your aftermarket calipers significantly larger or smaller than stock?  If so, in which dimension(s)?

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2013, 09:38:48 PM »
Incidentally, I'm not asking you to pull your wheels off again and take the brakes apart to answer my questions.  I'll play with my brakes this weekend on my Saturn VUE and hope whatever I find is typical of GM with regard to whether or not the caliper can over-travel the bracket for clearance. 

You've provided the data I need to figure out whether or not these wheels I'm looking at will work and if there's room for machining them to adjust the offset closer to stock.

Offline Critterman

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2013, 09:49:10 PM »
Mine are physically larger both in length and thickness.  I needed a spacer with the stock rims.  I think it may have been 3/8ths
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2013, 12:09:24 AM »
The pads have about 4500 miles on them very little of those miles are stop and go travel so the pads have very little wear.  I am not sure how the calipers move as the pads wear but I would guess they would result in more clearance.
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Offline POS VETT

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2013, 12:18:26 PM »
The caliper moves as the pad wear. The outboard pad wear determines the increase in lateral clearance.

Offline 2kwk4u

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2013, 02:36:51 PM »
Yep, I understand how the caliper moves.  What I'm envisioning is the worst case - and likely what engineers have to design for.  Worst case for clearance would be that the caliper seizes on the guide pins.  The piston of the caliper being on the inside, then the inside brake pad would wear more in such a circumstance.  If that is taken in combination with a warped rotor pushing the already nearly max thickness outer pad away (and the caliper with it), how far could it walk out?  There will be a physical limit, probably determined by the guide pins (/guide bushings), for how far the caliper can move outward on the mounting bracket.  I'm curious as to whether the clearance to the bracket is less than, or more than the minimum clearance to the caliper itself.

Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2013, 03:36:19 PM »
The caliper body moves inboard as the pads wears to compensate for wear on the outboard pad, the piston takes up wear on the inboard pad.  If the caliper can't move then how would the outside pad be able to move outboard any more then where it starts at with a new pad?  I think you might be overthinking this one.
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Offline Wartie

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2013, 09:19:47 PM »
The caliper body moves inboard as the pads wears to compensate for wear on the outboard pad, the piston takes up wear on the inboard pad.  If the caliper can't move then how would the outside pad be able to move outboard any more then where it starts at with a new pad?  I think you might be overthinking this one.

That being said and I agree. I may be all wet here but where you are holding the scale in the first picture the dimension should never change.  :idk:

Offline 1LILNDN

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2013, 09:43:08 PM »
would that be after you deduct the thickness of the wheel . thats what i'm thinking . Just a guess
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Offline Sol Asylum

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Re: Caliper Clearance?
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2013, 10:13:41 PM »
That being said and I agree. I may be all wet here but where you are holding the scale in the first picture the dimension should never change.  :idk:

I think you are right, that part doesn't move which would mean 1/4" is the number to be concerned with.
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