Kappa Performance Forum
Kappa Specific => Racing => Topic started by: Uranium-238 on June 19, 2017, 09:14:34 AM
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Anyone here still racing in the MD area? The wife and I picked up a used Camaro last year, and the hope it to make it to an autocross or two this year. Would be nice to meet up with some folks, if any are still running their Kappas.
The Camaro already sees regular time at the drag strip, but I'm eager to try it on some corners...
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Uh, Wooooowwww, nice to see you back, even kind of back. I think we met at SMMM8 iirc.
You are talking about runs at the drag strip and not more info???? Time, pictures, timeslips ... get back correctly :D
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Hey Kelu, I remember meeting you at that mod meet. Do those still happen at all?
I'll work on getting some pics up, finally got a PC buffer and learned how to properly detail a car.
We got lucky and found a low mileage 2SS manual that already had an intake and a Flowmaster catback.. Still working on getting better drag times, it's hard to get a good 60' time on the stock tires. Best run so far was 13.3 @ 107, with a 2.1 60'. Still trying various tricks to try and get it to launch better, though I've seen time slips that make me think I'm losing down the track. Put in a Hurst short throw shifter last week, honestly I expect that may help some as I lose a lot of time shifting. The Hurst makes it easier to shift hard and fast without making the car buck.
More mods are coming, but I'm not sure what order. I plan on getting an air-fuel ratio meter and HP tuners and doing the tuning myself. Somewhere in there I want to get a twin-disk clutch so I can get some drag radials. A cam is on the shortlist once I've got HP tuners figured out. Lastly, somewhere in there I need to figure out what suspension to go with. Thankfully the car came with one of the better suspension options, but not quite as good as the 1LE suspension. It's either a 1LE suspension or aftermarket, and no idea which yet.
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I'm sure we could have another mod meet, we just need someone to step up and host it.
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Love the mod meets met a lot of great people and GJ
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That's true, we did meet a lot of good people and GJ.
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:lol: When Sentence structure wins. :lol:
Uranium, didn't you used to have a G8?
You definitely have traction issues. Try reducing the pressure on the rear tires and increasing the pressure on the fronts.
Better traction that way and less rolling resistance. That thing should be able to put down 12's
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Uranium, didn't you used to have a G8?
You definitely have traction issues. Try reducing the pressure on the rear tires and increasing the pressure on the fronts.
Better traction that way and less rolling resistance. That thing should be able to put down 12's
Nope. Traded the 2.0 Sky in for a truck, paid that off and got a the Camaro. Considered a G8, but the wife and I don't need a four door and wanted the (slightly) better gas mileage of the Camaro. Which is enough of a brick already, I can't imagine a G8. I'm still surprised the Camaro handles as well as it does with it's two ton weight.
Fronts are a high as I think is safe, usually 38ish warmed up. I was looking at some other folks 60' times, someone ran a 12.8 with a 2.1 60'. Thinking it's my rough shifting (Any energy that makes the car buck upwards doesn't move it faster down the track) combined with the added weight of the 2SS package. That being said, I'm getting closer to the 12's, and am admittedly doing it the hard way with a manual.
:lol: When Sentence structure wins. :lol:
It's hard not to do that with cars...
Oh, and a quick picture: [attach=1]
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Thanks for sharing the experience and nice picture, car looks nice and clean ;)
AF gauge I don't see the benefit of it because is very hard to read, I would stick only with HP Tuners and log everything at the strip and analyze afterwards. Because AF matters what is in the ECU, commanded and measured.
Tires would help the most imho, something sticky and with a lot of sidewall.
Keep us updated ;)
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Thanks for sharing the experience and nice picture, car looks nice and clean ;)
Whoever had it before us too great care of the care, under 3000 miles and not a mark on it when we test drove it. Sadly the paint didn't fair well once the dealership's "detailing" department got a hold of it. I've been able to remove most of the swirl marks, but a few deeper ones remain.
AF gauge I don't see the benefit of it because is very hard to read, I would stick only with HP Tuners and log everything at the strip and analyze afterwards. Because AF matters what is in the ECU, commanded and measured.
True, however the AFR gauge does help show if there's a lean condition occuring that the ECU doesn't see. Think of it as a redundant safety, this way you have two systems reporting AFR. If there's a discrepancy, something is up. Also, the Camaro only has narrowband oxygen sensors, this should be a "better" safety net. And of course it can still be tied in to HP Tuners for datalogging.
Tires would help the most imho, something sticky and with a lot of sidewall.
Keep us updated ;)
I fully intend to get some Mickey Thompson DRs for the car - once I have the money for a new clutch. Seems the stocker is only good for a launch or two with good tires...
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Watchout for that AF gauge, if you install its own sensor after car sensor it might read bad, if you install it before the car's O2 sensor than the ECU reading might be screwed and your car to run bad, also if you tap into the existing O2 sensor it might have signal issues.
MT are a good option, damn about stock clutch.
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The Camaro actually has four O2 sensors, as well as four cats. (two of each for each bank)
The front set manages the AFR, the rear set are just to monitor emmissions. With manifolds the plan is to remove the rear cats with a straight pipe, and mount the aftermarket O2 sensor there. Same idea applies with headers, which are likely the first "go faster" part I'll buy. (good for 50ish HP with a tune.)
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Uranium, didn't you used to have a G8?
I'm thinking Excelsior might have had the G8
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The Camaro actually has four O2 sensors, as well as four cats. (two of each for each bank)
The front set manages the AFR, the rear set are just to monitor emmissions. With manifolds the plan is to remove the rear cats with a straight pipe, and mount the aftermarket O2 sensor there. Same idea applies with headers, which are likely the first "go faster" part I'll buy. (good for 50ish HP with a tune.)
Unless I'm mistaken, you'll want your aftermarket O2 sensor mounted UPSTREAM of the catalytic converter(s). Otherwise, you're not getting a true reading of the spent gasses before they're processed by the catalytic converter(s).
Again, I could be mistaken, but at the very least it just doesn't sound "right" to me...
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Unless I'm mistaken, you'll want your aftermarket O2 sensor mounted UPSTREAM of the catalytic converter(s). Otherwise, you're not getting a true reading of the spent gasses before they're processed by the catalytic converter(s).
Again, I could be mistaken, but at the very least it just doesn't sound "right" to me...
Yep, that slipped my mind. They'll go just before the first set of cats.
Between work and school, my brain is cheesecloth. With headers, I don't plan on having cats, so it would likely be mounted just after the stock O2 sensor. My addled brain bled this over to the stock setup...
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I'm thinking Excelsior might have had the G8
I think you are right, I have a picture with that red G8 which I drove to supermarket in one of the mornings :thumbs: but I think that is from SMMM10 when Madalina was there.
Uranium-238: As long as you are aware that is a good thing ;) I have seen even in a Kappa issues with extra O2 sensor as I stated previously.
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Had a 2017 SS Camaro this week for a rental car. It makes a lot of fun noises but definitely needs better tires for the drag strip.
I tested the tires.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/742de77ed811997f440d69c8f8a77db4.jpg)
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Nice! Good to see you're still on here GJ! (even if other might disagree with me...)
We considered a 2016, but couldn't justify the cost. Plus, the LT1 still has a long way to go before it's as upgrade-friendly as an LS.
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Nice! Good to see you're still on here GJ! (even if other might disagree with me...)
We considered a 2016, but couldn't justify the cost. Plus, the LT1 still has a long way to go before it's as upgrade-friendly as an LS.
No doubt the lt4 will develop a solid following. It is a lively and solid motor.
I really like the new style and the fact that they added so much lightness to the car.
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The added lightness is definitely the best part of the 2016 redesign. I'll agree the new motors are great, but for the average home garage mechanic the LS simply dominates.
On that note, has the "LS swap the world" trend finally made it to Kappas? With truck motors both cheap and available, and the stock motors getting on in age, I'd think this would be a popular swap.
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2Jz's are also taking over. They are dominating the drift world. It's amazing to see how many teams that used to have an LS now have a 2JZ and are pushing more HP.
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The v8 swap is alive and well with the ls leading the way in the kappa, although not as often as first thought. The 2.0 has proven the be quite durable. I saw a 230,000 mile solstice this week!
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Had a 2017 SS Camaro this week for a rental car. It makes a lot of fun noises but definitely needs better tires for the drag strip.
I tested the tires.
I may have heard that tire test...
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Update: The Camaro definitely has some sort of clutch/trans issue. Don't try and shift into second fast, or it'll grind. The synchros in second have always been touchy, but something new is up.
This happened before I went to the track btw. Ran 13.7/13.8 all day. Thinking how slow I have to shift is part of the lousy times, MPH was 107-109.
A bit of a known issue with these cars, but still annoying. Tremec blames the way GM (AND Ford, AND Dodge, who both use the same trans) install/utilize the trans. The big three, of course, blame Tremec...
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I may have heard that tire test...
I think that you heard the engine and saw the smoke but there was very little tire noise.
I just wish we would have had more time to test the G-Force meter!!!!!
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I think that you heard the engine and saw the smoke but there was very little tire noise.
I just wish we would have had more time to test the G-Force meter!!!!!
I know! I didn't even get to ride in it!
I may have seen that test. I was watching when the car in question left it's parking spot, but my have stepped away from the window during the tire test.
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The Camaro was fun to ride in and I have no doubt the aftermarket guys are working feverishly to come up with products for the LT engines.We make the LTs at our facility and it took nothing less than a complete tear out off all machining and assembly lines to be replaced with the new equipment to make the changeover. Although still the push rod design that we have all grown up with it's a completely new engine.
It's going to take a little time for the aftermarket guys to catch up.
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A bit of a known issue with these cars, but still annoying. Tremec blames the way GM (AND Ford, AND Dodge, who both use the same trans) install/utilize the trans. The big three, of course, blame Tremec...
If it is occurring on 3 different brands, I would have to place the blame on Tremec. It's either faulty parts, are they have not provided proper installation training.
Damn man, you have twice the cylinders and are 1.3 seconds slower
Get that shit fixed, a 1.7L 4 cylinder should not be able to smoke you.
:lol:
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1.3s slower than my best time? (13.3) or my recent times? (13.8)
Talking to other folks at the track, I'm not far off from what others are running with the same tires. I did manage to beat a 2016 Mustang by a hair, which backs up what both cars should be capable of. I honestly don't think I'm going to improve much unless the weather is perfect (The 13.8's were in 90+ degree weather, and humid) and the track well prepped. And I'm still playing with the whole tire pressure/burnout/around the water box or not game.
Either way that 1.7 is in a much lighter car, the Camaro weighed 4030 lbs with me in it and a quarter tank of gas last time it was on a scale. I'd imagine your Alfa is probably close to half that.
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U-238 - you should challenge Elff to transport 4 people 12 miles one way in his fancy 1.7l runabout. :)
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1.3s slower than my best time? (13.3) or my recent times? (13.8)
Talking to other folks at the track, I'm not far off from what others are running with the same tires. I did manage to beat a 2016 Mustang by a hair, which backs up what both cars should be capable of. I honestly don't think I'm going to improve much unless the weather is perfect (The 13.8's were in 90+ degree weather, and humid) and the track well prepped. And I'm still playing with the whole tire pressure/burnout/around the water box or not game.
Either way that 1.7 is in a much lighter car, the Camaro weighed 4030 lbs with me in it and a quarter tank of gas last time it was on a scale. I'd imagine your Alfa is probably close to half that.
2400 lbs and 12.5-12.8 1/4 mile times depending on traction on stock tires.
:D
GJ
the best part of a 2 seater is not having to be a people hauler.
But
My wife's Focus RS does mid 12's and could win that 4 person 12 mile race.
:thumbs:
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U238: you are going to MIR?
elff: stop hiding behind your's wife excellence ... be a man, you can'even fit 3 people in that thing.
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Kelu, he can fit 3 if they are all his size.
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Kelu, he can fit 3 if they are all his size.
I said people, ok?
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Now that's a burn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I bet the Flower child would fit with Monica and him.
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As scary as that would be, it satisfies the requirement and with that fawking thing behind me, I would drive my ass off.
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I bet the Flower child would fit with Monica and him.
Wow. that's an evil thought.
Let me tell you a secret, we can't find the flower doll anymore :( I told to my wife that we have to take that with us in US but we can't find it anymore.
Hopefully when we will start to prepare our leave and turn all the house upside down we will find it.
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Good thing Elff took a picture.
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Kill it with fire!!
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Won't happen elff, sorry :D
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I don't think fire kills the devils child.
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Just to be clear, this is what we are talking about right?
[attach=1]
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If that thing is behind me I will run away from everything
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If that thing is behind me I will run away from everything
Why am I visualizing Speedy Gonzales with his little legs spinning in circles now?
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U238: you are going to MIR?
Yes, though that place is under new ownership, and I don't feel like they're putting the time/money/energy into the Friday night street car events that the prior owner did.
Elff, you may win that race now, but what if we tried again in 150,000 miles? :P
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Yes, though that place is under new ownership, and I don't feel like they're putting the time/money/energy into the Friday night street car events that the prior owner did.
Elff, you may win that race now, but what if we tried again in 15,000 miles? :P
Fixed that for you.
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Yes, though that place is under new ownership, and I don't feel like they're putting the time/money/energy into the Friday night street car events that the prior owner did.
Elff, you may win that race now, but what if we tried again in 150.000 miles? :P
Just move the decimal GJ
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Yes, though that place is under new ownership, and I don't feel like they're putting the time/money/energy into the Friday night street car events that the prior owner did.
Elff, you may win that race now, but what if we tried again in 150,000 miles? :P
I don't own a GM anymore. I am confident I would still win.
You will be on your 20th water pump and 5th timing chain
:lol:
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I don't know, I put 190,000 miles on my GM truck and outside of tires, brakes, and oil/antifreeze changes I only had to replace the fan clutch $30 (twice), the rear u-joint ~$7 (twice), and the clutch master cyl $20. My parents and brother have spent more on repairs for their Chryslers then I spent to buy that truck new. If someone hadn't totalled that truck for me I would probably still be driving it.
My boss bought a new Dodge truck a year and a half later he got rid of it for a Chevy after the trans was replaced 3 times the transfer case 2 times, they never fixed the electrical system even after replacing the BCM, ECM, radio, instrument cluster, airbags and sensors, and a boat load of other electrical items. He said once the warranty was up there was no way he could afford to keep it drivable.
Fiat/Alfa doesn't have the best of reps for reliability. Merging Fiat and Chrysler doesn't really sound like a plan for success to me. I guess time will tell.
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I don't own a GM anymore. I am confident I would still win.
You will be on your 20th water pump and 5th timing chain
:lol:
For an LS3? The timing chain is about a foot long, and only connects the cam to the crank...as it should be. ;) The water pump is still a weak spot on these motors, but usually fails closer to 200k miles than the 60k my Kappa's did.
FWIW, my I feel that if you can live with the initial cost/high gas mileage, the GM V8's are fantastic engines. The amount of aftermarket support is incredible, I can pick and choose vendors. Honestly, for some things AC Delco is a great choice...others, I've got MSD, Hollet, Edelbrock, and many other to choose from. The aftermarket support for my truck, to speak nothing of the Camaro, puts the Kappa to shame.
But I buy used, I'm not paying money for a warranty/stealership hassles but have to deal with any problems that crop up. The truck has only had minor issues since I ditched my Kappa for it almost six years ago. The only issues have been a dead stereo, u-joint, dead battery, (normal for a truck that age) and the fan blower resistor. Hopefully the Camaro follows suit. With the main GM V8/transmission combos you can be pretty much sure your power train won't have any issues. Other bells and whistles? Not so much so, but so long as I can still drive I'm fine with that.
The other advantage of buying used is you can kinda tell if a vehicle is having weird issues or not in it's service history.
(FWIW, I buy most of my AC Delco parts from Amazon, since my local stealership seems intent on charging triple what Amazon does. The local Dodge dealership? Oh they price match Amazon...)
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If you have a local Napa, they tend to kick ass. If they don't have it at your local store, they will deliver it to your local store within 1 day in most cases and their staff tends to be way more knowledgable about cars than Pep Boys or Autozone.
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Why am I visualizing Speedy Gonzales with his little legs spinning in circles now?
Hahhaha, I was thinking to something similar, tazmanian devil (cartoon version too) running like crazy :D
Yes, though that place is under new ownership, and I don't feel like they're putting the time/money/energy into the Friday night street car events that the prior owner did.
I asked because imho MIR was one of the best places to set up record times. Speedracer from this forum did that with Kappa and then new camaro :D pity he is not a forum guy. I also went there with him once and I was impressed by the quality of prep ;)
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He still holds the stock 5th-gen ZL1 record as far as I know.
The prep seems to ebb and flow with whatever special event is running that Friday night/weekend. One night this year they had a bunch of grudge cars running, along with some cars for the big event the following Saturday. There was also a Drag Week Tri-Five running in the mid 7's. Track prep that day was incredible, that's when I managed the 13.3. Tires were so sticky that the car shaked for about a mile and a half after I left the track, the rocks and debris was glued on that strongly.
They've also greatly reduced the number of Friday night street car events. Right now the next one is at the end of August, and the final one for the year is in September.
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Well I'm dumb.
I've been shifting at 6000-6100 RPM, as the factory tach shows redline at 6200 RPM.
After playing with HP Tuners on a run where I purposefully bounced it off the rev limiter, I learned something interesting...redline is 6600 RPM. Some googling confirms this. Why I never thought to check this I don't know, but in my defense the tach does have red starting at 6200 RPM...
500ish RPM that I'm not using has to have had an affect on my times...
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So long as the torque curve shows it's usable RPM otherwise you might be better off shifting sooner. Something more to look into.
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Not sure what tune you have (if any) but most of the tunes (Trifecta and certainly GMPP) raise the redline from the stock 6200, anyway.
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Not sure what tune you have (if any) but most of the tunes (Trifecta and certainly GMPP) raise the redline from the stock 6200, anyway.
I will be the one to tell TS that this time he is _wrong_? :D
Got him :devil:
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So long as the torque curve shows it's usable RPM otherwise you might be better off shifting sooner. Something more to look into.
The way these 5th gens are geared, you lose a ton of mechanical advantage each time you shift. Usually I cross the beams at the top of third, so between first and second that's a very useful 1000 rpm I haven't even been touching.
And to be clear, I sold my Kappa back in 2011, and since then have only bought vehicles with the number of cylinders that SHOULD have been in the Kappa.
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I will be the one to tell TO that this time he is _wrong_? :D
Got him :devil:
Who is this TO?
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Who is this TO?
I meant TS, corrected, mister right :P
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I will be the one to tell TS that this time he is _wrong_? :D
Why? You think the tunes don't raise the redline? I know for sure that GMPP does.
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Why? You think the tunes don't raise the redline? I know for sure that GMPP does.
TS-
Please reread a few of the posts before Kelu really starts to make fun of you.
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TS-
Please reread a few of the posts before Kelu really starts to make fun of you.
What's wrong with you???? Do you realize that you trying to stop some fun on the forum??? Geez...
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Oh I think I know the reason of your weird behavior: you need TS' scope :lol:
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What's wrong with you???? Do you realize that you trying to stop some fun on the forum??? Geez...
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Oh I think I know the reason of your weird behavior: you need TS' scope :lol:
I like TS. I don't like most of the rest of you.
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Invite TS and his O-scope out to SD tell him you need to settle a bet :poke:
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So long as the torque curve shows it's usable RPM otherwise you might be better off shifting sooner. Something more to look into.
Exactly
No use revving to 8000 if the power drops off way before that.
T.S. Wrong GM car.
:lol: :lol:
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Doh!
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Doh!
I tried to protect you!!!!
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:lol:
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I found this while surfing the web in my Alfa Glass house
https://blackflag.jalopnik.com/corvette-z06-owners-hit-gm-with-class-action-lawsuit-be-1796070293
Looks like only need 16 minutes to humiliate a car with 3 times the HP.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I found this while surfing the web in my Alfa Glass house
https://blackflag.jalopnik.com/corvette-z06-owners-hit-gm-with-class-action-lawsuit-be-1796070293
Looks like only need 16 minutes to humiliate a car with 3 times the HP.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'd respond with a defense of GM, but honestly I have no desire for any make of car made after ~2014-2015 or so. (And even then only a small list of vehicles) But who buys a GM V8 to keep it stock? C'mon folks, swap in a cooler thermostat and stop whining...
Whole reason I again stopped back was to say if anyone is planning on heading to MIR with their Kappa this season I'd love to meet up with them. Might try and make an autocross event sometime, but with the current exhaust setup I think I'm over the dB limit for some groups.
Oh and elff, I'm in the upper 12's now on a bad run...if all goes well I'll be in the 11's before the season is out... :poke:
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Sweet!!!
What changes have you done to the car to drop some time. Getting into the 11's is no small feat.
You better have someone filming that so you can post it and brag.
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Whole reason I again stopped back was to say if anyone is planning on heading to MIR with their Kappa this season I'd love to meet up with them.
I would love to but I'm a lot more south :( keep us posted and come back here more often than twice per year :D
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Sweet!!!
What changes have you done to the car to drop some time. Getting into the 11's is no small feat.
You better have someone filming that so you can post it and brag.
Headers and half a tune. Honestly anyone with a 5th gen Camaro SS owes it to themselves to get long tubes on the car, backtracking horsepower numbers from my timeslips I'd say the car picked up around 40-50 HP at the wheels. (Which jives with bone stock crate LS3 engines running ~490 hp flywheel on an engine dyno with just dyno headers and no tune.)
MPH from the run (12.9 @ 110) says the car should run as-is in the low 12's. If the OT work I'm expecting happens this summer, the plan is to get a new clutch, drag radials, and a cam. Those should be good for mid/low 11's. Still though, that wasn't even close to a clean run, I'm still shaking down some instrumentation issues...
Made two passes. First run went great...then I topped out in third about 50-70 from the finish line. From there I just let it coast, and still got the 12.9
Next up my shift light didn't work...and I ended up hitting the limiter in 1st...then proceeded to compound the issue by short shifting 3rd and 4th. That also still net a 12.9, so I'm confident the car is at least mid-12 capable with my current (still lousy) launches.
Kelu I'll definitely keep everyone posted, and I intend to stop by throughout the season.
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At MIR look for a Demon, Manny aka SpeedRacer might be around and he has some pretty impressive records with stock or almost stock cars.
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I met him back when I had the Saturn. FWIW, he still holds the bone stock 5th gen ZL1 camaro record.
But both his Sky and Camaro are/were automatics. My intent is to stick with the manual as long as I can...about the only way I forsee changing is if it's just a better financial decision to swap over to automatic. Won't be setting records, but that's fine.
My long-term goal for the car is a procharger, run in the 9's, and finish Dragweek...
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Manny has a Demon now?
Damn!!!
Sounds like you are making good progress on the car.
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U238: nice plan :cool: I wish you to accomplish it faster than you expect ;)
Tires would yield at least .5s drop.
After Camaro I think Manni had also the new Vette and now Demon :(
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I would love to but I'm a lot more south :( keep us posted and come back here more often than twice per year :D
Kelu I missed this till now...you live stateside now?
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Kelu I missed this till now...you live stateside now?
Holy Hell- You have been gone a while! Come to think of it, I don't think you ever paid in to the "Get Kelu, Madeline and David to Florida" Fund. Please PayPal me $100 at your earliest convenience.
Kelu, his wife and their son live in Florida (Space coast area) as of last fall. He would love it if you drove your Racing car down to see him. All he gets to drive is a minivan when his wife lets him out of the house.
GJ
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Well, I can't argue with that description :D
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Kelu I've got two words: Trailblazer SS.
Kid hauler that runs 14's (stock), and can be had for pretty cheap.
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Years? Version of the engine? What to pay attention to?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_TrailBlazer#First_generation_(2002%E2%80%932009)
2006-2009. LS2 V8, either AWD or RWD. Only major issue to watch out for is the is the crank bearings aren't the best, most swap them for better ones at about 100k miles. Other than that, it's like any other GM V8 powertrain: bulletproof.
You could also just swap in any junkyard LS if the crank bearing is a big concern.
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I looked on craiglist, only one V8 in my area :( I read that RWD is better for future mods or transform it in a project car.