Topic: Highest Stock K04 Kappa record

[ryansalazan]

Just curious, I'm wondering what is the current record for the highest WHP on a dyno with the stock turbo. No Nitrous of course because thats cheating haha. Anyways, I'd like to know because I'm going to dyno on the stock turbo I believe Saturday and would like to compare. I like to think my sky pulls hard. It def feels like it pulls harder than my fully bolter 847 cobalt ss turbo did.

Anyways please let me know!

[ryansalazan]

E47

[LatinVenom]

You asked the same question on the BB and someone answered 307WHP.
I do not know how anyone can obtain that number on a stock turbo with a tune. The highest I have ever seen was 298WHP.
We know changing the charge tubes (IC pipes) does not yield any HP improvement.
Also a new IC will yield very small HP increase if any.
Is all in the tune and there is not a lot of room and be safe to get to those numbers.
E47 or E85 is also cheating.   

[Gentleman Jack]

Stock turbo on an LS3?

[cbr6]

 Did not see it for myself but, I have a contact actually a couple of contacts that worked on the factory GM race team that ran cobalt ss turbo in grand am. They sais they had a 425hp tune that GM did for the program. I was offered this tune, didn't take it. Was afraid it might break stuff. They are believable people, said the cobalt just left the mustang GT out of the chicane at Daytona. I was also told by Don Knowles the T2 GXP he raced had this kind of power, along with $8000 dampers.  Anyone seen results like this ???    I would assume at flywheel HP

[dragon sky]

I had DDM dyno tune my sky in Austin and Dave was able to record 305 whp.

[InTheSky831]

298hp tp 305hp is not a big difference. It's going to depend on what dyno was used, ambient air temp, sea level and lots of other factors. that's like 10-15hp, which is a tiny difference.


idk why people chase numbers so much, either. its just a number. Powerband is where its at. what good does 305whp do when you hit it at 4500-5k? lol

[GXP_Matt]

Did not see it for myself but, I have a contact actually a couple of contacts that worked on the factory GM race team that ran cobalt ss turbo in grand am. They sais they had a 425hp tune that GM did for the program. I was offered this tune, didn't take it. Was afraid it might break stuff. They are believable people, said the cobalt just left the mustang GT out of the chicane at Daytona. I was also told by Don Knowles the T2 GXP he raced had this kind of power, along with $8000 dampers.  Anyone seen results like this ???    I would assume at flywheel HP

I thought the T2 cars didn't have stock turbos?  425 is definitely believeable for something like a 2871 swap, but I have a hard time believing the stock compressor stage can do that without oxygenated fuel.  Based on the compressor maps I can nearly guarantee that it's impossible on 93 octane gas.

[ryansalazan]

I agree with matt. theres no way to hit 425 withoug a bigger turbo or a rebuilt motor.

I dont see how e47 is cheating? Its something you can buy locally at the pump? Not like race gas or anything.

I also posted this on a couple of forums because I just wanted to see what I could be expecting with my setup. To be honest. I'm really wanting to see 320 rwhp and I dont think thats impossible considering wsome of the cars I've been able to run and put down. Of course Someone on here or another forum will have their doubts and start flaming people, but thats not what this is about. I'm respectfully putting out there that I think I should be able to put down about 320rwhp and maybe like 390rwtq.

On the cobalt turbo that I had, on full bolt ons and stock turbo I was able to hit 363whp and 417wtq. That is now obviously nothing big now in days, lol but I definitely do feel that my sky with the current setup has alot more pep than my cobalt did. (granted butt dynos dont mean anything haha)

I just would have thought that maybe on the kappa platform the highest would have been something like 340rwhp on stock turbo with 4-- something rwtq. I know there is a drivetrain loss with the rwd setup vs the cobalt but I'm still being a little optimistic I guess.

[InTheSky831]

e85 is readily available at pumps. even on that, I think you could get 320-340is. I don't consider pump gas cheating lol.

[LatinVenom]

You can not compare a front driven to our rear drive motor.
Cobalts will always get more power.
I just do not see our little K04 get anymore than 300WHP.
I have the K04 with the large wheel and the best DDM can do tuning it in house is 360-365 at the crank/flywheel.

[InTheSky831]

doesn't matter if we make less power than a cobalt.

kappa>cobalt

[ryansalazan]

You can not compare a front driven to our rear drive motor.
Cobalts will always get more power.
I just do not see our little K04 get anymore than 300WHP.
I have the K04 with the large wheel and the best DDM can do tuning it in house is 360-365 at the crank/flywheel.

the thing is do you have any supporting mods? The problem with a factory ko4 is within its efficiency. They do nothing but blow hot air up tom and because of that boost pressure starts to fall off. If you have any kind of cooling mods, they are going to help you immensely. Even with a bigger wheel, our compressor housing is too small to make a huge difference.

I'm comparing the cobalt to the sky or solstice because of the pure estimate with whp. With a cobalt hitting 363 to the ground, the sky shouldnt ever hit that on stock turbo purely because of the rear wheel drivetrain loss. That being said, I'm saying that I'm shocked something like 320-330 rwhp. hasnt been hit yet because i see that as being close to the crank hp the cobalt made, but after rwd loss then putting it to the ground. Unless our cars have some sort of restricted ass drivetrain and we loss 50hp just from rotating the back wheels.

And to the last comment, this coming from me a ex cobalt owner, yes the kappa platform is much better!

[ryansalazan]

You can not compare a front driven to our rear drive motor.
Cobalts will always get more power.
I just do not see our little K04 get anymore than 300WHP.
I have the K04 with the large wheel and the best DDM can do tuning it in house is 360-365 at the crank/flywheel.

Also our motors are the exact same as the cobalt SS. Same turbo turbo and exhaust manifold too.

[Gentleman Jack]

Different ECMs and programming. Different driveline loss


Peak power number? Or highest reliable number?

Penis

[Sol Asylum]

Hey Kelu wake up you lazy Romanian (or is it Belgium now).  What was the estimated drive train loss for the Kappa? 

I seem to recall it was something like 20% so 50hp loss is not out of the question in fact it could be on the low side.

[IBDRINKEN]

On my old Gxp with meth and exhaust I put down 320 at the wheels

[Gentleman Jack]

On my old Gxp with meth and exhaust I put down 320 at the wheels

Hehehe he said meth...

[wspohn]

Different driveline loss

That's the difference right there and there is no way to get around it.

[Gentleman Jack]

That's the difference right there and there is no way to get around it.

Once again, it is confirmed, GJ is right!!!!!!!

Not to brag, but its been happening a lot lately.


Oh, I almost forgot-
Penis.

[ryansalazan]

On my old Gxp with meth and exhaust I put down 320 at the wheels

Thats more of what im talking about? Hptune?

[IBDRINKEN]

Thats more of what im talking about? Hptune?

Yes Dave at DDM tuned it it was 320hp and 358 torque

[Kelu]

Hey Kelu wake up you lazy Romanian (or is it Belgium now).  What was the estimated drive train loss for the Kappa? 

I seem to recall it was something like 20% so 50hp loss is not out of the question in fact it could be on the low side.

Don't drag me down here
More important than drivetrain loss is dyno calibration, for stock turbo Kappa I saw dynos showing between 203whp (Westers) up to 220-230whp even 240whp iirc, so the value is per case.

Also, another important aspect is what GJ mentioned, peak number could be just a high value but irrelevant in most other cases.

Iirc if we talk about drivetrain loss Kappa is somewhere around 18-23% imho.

[cbr6]

 I have a question on the horsepower topic. I have a '08 GXP GMPP tune, magnaflow cat back exhaust. Runs great, fuel mileage is great. My question is what does it take to put down 300hp at the tires? But still keep it as nice as the GM tune, don't think it would hurt if it was a little softer just off idle. I have wished the car had a taller first gear, it makes so much torque off idle.

[wspohn]

Well the traction control takes care of torque off idle if you leave it on, as it won't allow uncontrolled wheelspin.  You might want to look at a canned tune from Trifecta or some of the other tuners (or roll your own with one of the program packages if you have the skill and it doesn't make you nervous).  The basic Trifecta is probably the best value plug and play though.  But it isn't likely to give you 300 whp with a stock turbo and no other tweaks like alcohol fuel in a Kappa.

This thread is really a tad silly, don't you guys think?

It is like saying 'Who has seen the highest temperature at your place in the summer?" but then throwing in a kicker and saying that none of the thermometers are calibrated and may read all over the place.  That's the situation with dynos.  The 'winner' of a thread like this is going to be the guy that used the most liberally reading dyno. What can you learn from that?