Topic: 4 row radiator with built in oil cooler

[Sting Ya]

This isn't a "trend" this is a shop advertising services that they aren't capable of following through on, and having poor time management practices.

     

[elff]

Actually that is the trend

[RobertAshby]

I chose to wait until Dave had an opening, waited months, with promise of quick turnaround. Was fine with over 3 month estimate. Now a few weeks shy of waiting 8 months. Larger radiator, shrouding, install pre bent rollbar, seats, adjust clutch, and finish TC install .  .. .  Name any reputable shop that would treat a $40K customer this way on return redos....

[DeepBlueGXP]

I have heard from other V8 install shops (Wade's Garage and DDM) that these installs can be tricky.  The physical install itself seems to go well but getting the computer to play nice is the tricky part plus from what I see on your list of mods, there is a lot more than a typical V8 drop in that would normally take 3 months.  I think they are do their do diligence to work through the bugs then rather send you on your way with issues only to return more upset than if you had to wait.

[Sting Ya]

I have heard from other V8 install shops (Wade's Garage and DDM) that these installs can be tricky.  The physical install itself seems to go well but getting the computer to play nice is the tricky part plus from what I see on your list of mods, there is a lot more than a typical V8 drop in that would normally take 3 months.  I think they are do their do diligence to work through the bugs then rather send you on your way with issues only to return more upset than if you had to wait.

  All one has to do is follow Robert's build on the big board and see what a joke it has turned out to be .I have been involved in more then a few "builds "in my day and am currently working on a resto mod of the Chevelle that I recently purchased now that my Solstice is pretty much done .Granted I've never done an LS swap but at one point I was seriously considering it  again I've done a few frame off restorations ,have modified more cars and bikes then I care to remember in my 65 years and have friends who do this type of work for a living and I have to say I've never seen or heard of anything that can compare to this .If Robert's expectations were unreasonable then it was up to Werks as professionals to make him aware of that instead of taking his money all 40 grand plus and leaving him with an unfinished car and a string of broken promises .If Werks could not accomplish this build in a timely manner and give him a trouble free car then they should not have taken his money and instead referred him to someone who could .Werks makes some great products for our cars I have them on mine but as far as a business goes they leave a lot to be desired .I know I'm just one lone voice out there but I will no longer buy their products in the future or refer them  to anyone looking for Kappa modifications .

[Sol Asylum]

Has Werks done an install exactly like this before or is this the first one with this engine, trans, model year, ect....?

[username]

Has Werks done an install exactly like this before or is this the first one with this engine, trans, model year, ect....?

Immaterial- they advertise that they do these conversions. Robert didn't drop by and propose it out of the blue, they've positioned themselves as "experts".

If I stopped by a local shop and asked them to put a V8 in a Solstice, and they hadn't done it before, Robert's experience would be less unbelievable. For a shop that brags about doing these, the delays and problems are completely unacceptable.

[RobertAshby]

199 days and counting just on the work this time. Close to triple original build time I think.

[Sol Asylum]

Actually it is material.

If it's something they have already done then they should have already worked out the bugs and this delay is actually worse than if it was something new. 

If it's something they haven't done before then they should have made it perfectly clear that there could be unexpected delays/expenses.  Which it seems they didn't do in this case.

[Gentleman Jack]

Immaterial- they advertise that they do these conversions. Robert didn't drop by and propose it out of the blue, they've positioned themselves as "experts".

If I stopped by a local shop and asked them to put a V8 in a Solstice, and they hadn't done it before, Robert's experience would be less unbelievable. For a shop that brags about doing these, the delays and problems are completely unacceptable.

Do you have first hand experience with this shop as well?  If so, care to share your experiences as opposed to piling on with Roberts?

We should do the best we can to keep this above board. Legitimate issues are perfectly fine to discuss, as Robert is doing. Adding in anecdotes and fanning a flame are less useful.

[elff]

i have to wonder what type of correlation there is with the current search for a new mechanic?
Bad help can really work against a shop and unfortunately the owner has to make it right no matter who was the culprit.

[DeepBlueGXP]

I think there was a bunch of one-off designs that take time.  I know when even Dave @ DDM when he developed the air box and cold air intake system that Steve had, it took quite a bit of time to develop and then Critterman had it installed fairly quickly.

What year is your car?  V8 conversions on 06/07 don't have issues with cruise control/brakes.  GM changed the way the ECM was programmed in 08 which lead to problems mating new engines like the LS motors

[werks]

The current and last remaining issue that we have left to figure out on Robert's car is the Racelogic traction control system.  We are having issues with interference, or spikes in wheel speed on the rear wheel speed sensors only above 30mph.  The fronts work just fine.  We have been working with the engineers at Racelogic on this and they have been more than helpful even despite the fact they have discontinued this product. 

I regret that it has taken this much time to figure out.  I apologize once again and I have apologized countless times for this and have given Robert many free items, upgrades, free labor and done a lot of little tweaks and touches to his car while it has been at our facility to help offset the added time it has taken.

I just received an e-mail from the engineer at Racelogic this morning stating that Robert has e-mailed them asking for a refund on his system so I am awaiting his reply to see what he wants to do next.  If that is the route he wishes to go I will happily refund him for the unit and the labor he was charged.  If he wants me to continue to troubleshoot the wheel speed sensor issue I will do that as well.  Either way we are committed to making the car 100% for him!

[RobertAshby]

Last issue , new to Dave TC system. Problem with this is should have been dealt with on original build. Instead I was not told it wasn't ready for pick up, went to Illinois from Phoenix with Son to pick it and told then. Have now waited months to get car in for  fast turnaround and now over 200 days on this redo/fix original problems.     Drove car with clutch an inch off the floor on release all the way home having trouble getting I to hear and hard to shift with PAW assurance it was O.K..
Brings us to now, PAW restarted effort to fix after I didn't want it back with the new $10 K upgrades only put in to take advantage of TC performance high hp car. Currently effort on only TC started end of September, 5 months + past promised delivery date. 200+ solid days on return when original build was abt 75  or less days  for entire car. No way to know,when Dave will get serious enough to just work on it and  get it out of his way. I know he wants it right and gone but  . . . . 

[elff]

One thing I have learned from this is that there are too many Daves in the kappa world
 

[Sol Asylum]

One thing I have learned from this is that there are too many Daves in the kappa world
 

Says a guy named Dave.

[DaveOC]

One thing I have learned from this is that there are too many Daves in the kappa world
 

 

[username]

Do you have first hand experience with this shop as well?  If so, care to share your experiences as opposed to piling on with Roberts?

We should do the best we can to keep this above board. Legitimate issues are perfectly fine to discuss, as Robert is doing. Adding in anecdotes and fanning a flame are less useful.

I'm not piling on, I just don't have some pathologic desire to "hear both sides" or defend a shop that's jerking someone around in a way that has been documented in dozens of pages of threads across two boards.
V8 Solstice conversions aren't all special unique snowflakes for a shop that ADVERTISES THAT THEY DO CONVERSIONS.

this is not the web page of a shop that's not confident in their ability to do an engine swap-> http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/index.php?osCsid=e1q3834j9i8jhev6titi1q5m66&cPath=334_185


200 days is the kind of time frame that someone doing this in their garage at home might run into! Hell, GMTech that did his own LSA from scratch, I don't think required that long to do his build! Mallett was completing cars in less than 5 weeks from delivery date, and that included repainting the engine bay after the fab work to fit the engine was done!


This is not abnormal for Werks, either:
http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f11/performance-autowerks-review-91066/
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f2/me-werks-caution-long-read-60762/

[elff]

Xactly

[Gentleman Jack]

I'm not piling on, I just don't have some pathologic desire to "hear both sides" or defend a shop that's jerking someone around in a way that has been documented in dozens of pages of threads across two boards.
V8 Solstice conversions aren't all special unique snowflakes for a shop that ADVERTISES THAT THEY DO CONVERSIONS.

this is not the web page of a shop that's not confident in their ability to do an engine swap-> http://www.performanceautowerks.com/catalog/index.php?osCsid=e1q3834j9i8jhev6titi1q5m66&cPath=334_185


200 days is the kind of time frame that someone doing this in their garage at home might run into! Hell, GMTech that did his own LSA from scratch, I don't think required that long to do his build! Mallett was completing cars in less than 5 weeks from delivery date, and that included repainting the engine bay after the fab work to fit the engine was done!


This is not abnormal for Werks, either:
http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f11/performance-autowerks-review-91066/
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f2/me-werks-caution-long-read-60762/

Where the heck did you get "hear both sides" from my post?  Jeeze... Jumpy much? 

(I'm a few drinks in at the end of a short fuse kind of week, so maybe I'm just overreacting).

I just want this to be useful to anyone that may come looking for solid info on a V8 swap. I don't give a lick about someone getting their feelings hurt, I just want to try to keep this to real world info.

Time for a refill.

[username]

Where the heck did you get "hear both sides" from my post?  Jeeze... Jumpy much? 

(I'm a few drinks in at the end of a short fuse kind of week, so maybe I'm just overreacting).

I just want this to be useful to anyone that may come looking for solid info on a V8 swap. I don't give a lick about someone getting their feelings hurt, I just want to try to keep this to real world info.

Time for a refill.

That part wasn't specifically directed at you, but in this thread and others here and elsewhere, I see users falling over themselves to defend or deflect responsibility for this situation away from Werks, despite them having a documented pattern of late deliveries and so on (admittedly, this is the main one I've seen about an actual car in the shop and not just parts orders.)
Aside from the plumbing and fitment issues that would arise from the unique situation of an LS7 or LS9/A, the only thing that really changes from year-to-year in these swaps is the BCM and ECM. None of Robert's problems have been with the ECM or BCM, aside from a locked tune that was supposed to be unlocked. Werks should have had this stuff figured out long ago given their advertising.

[Sting Ya]

I think one of the great things about a forum is that people can get information on vendors and their experiences with them it saves a lot of aggravation in the long run . I don't think people are "piling it on " as far as Werks goes I won't get into specifics but from my dealings with Werks they have lost me as a future customer because of the way they do business . I personally think that Robert is getting the royal shaft from them especially for all the money he has now invested in his car and it's still not running right after all they do advertise that they do these conversions .As I have said before they make some great products for our cars but their way of doing business leaves a lot to be desired .