Topic: Twincharged Solstice = Turbocharger + Supercharger

[Steelmesh]

I usualy use poly ur a thane ( 3m 5200) and fill the voids in the rubber mounts. works great. unlike the polyurathans hard shit sold by many that crumble when you relly dont want the to do so...( I had a red polly shifter joint crumble to dust as I was fixing to wax a stang with my bug....good thing traffic changed real fast as I only had 2 gears that worked.1&3...that would of made a mess on the road.......if we had gone for it. I was 2 miles from home witch was also good. ) I use the 5200 for engine mounts , trans mounts, suspension" compliance" bushings  and what ever I need it for. it takes 24 hours to set up, so sometimes some way of holding it in place will be required,(tape,cardboard plastic etc) Ive even used it to make bump stops taller..permanent and dosent crack or degrade. small tube or caulking tube.they do make a fast set but I havent used it for this.( 3m 4200,both come in white and black)and some off brands., marine stores and some hardware stores.( my wife is a west marine manager so I get it there) keep up with the great work!!!  do all the kappas have that type rear mount? looks just like my 2006 manual.

Kappa diff mounting styles:
2006-2007.5 all diffs mount to the body (different mount than what I show above)
2007.5-2009 all manual trans diffs mount to the torque arm (connected to transmission output)
2007.5-2009 all automatic trans diffs mount to the body (same mount I am showing above)

If you go back a few pages on this thread, I show a bunch of pictures of differentials and mounts

For the engine mounts etc, I have had good luck using a 2 part polyurethane with a duro of about 40, dye it black along with additives to make it last longer; and finally degas it before I pour it.  You don't have to get fancy, filling the mounts with anything will help as you shared with us.  On my Cruze when I discovered the insane wheel hop, I got aluminum scraps and stuffed them in the voids of the mount (temporary acid test), solved the wheel hop issue. 

I have been blowing out kappa driveshafts (wearing out the ball bearings in the CV joint), the latest hypothesis suggests all of my stiff drivetrain mounts could be causing it (stiff engine mounts, stiff trans mount, stiff diff mount).

[Steelmesh]

I did some more digging and analysis, found the better WOT with the twincharger it's 2nd gear (Twin 1).  I am still misunderstanding the [colder IAT but less flow] inquiry of mine.  Look at Drag 1 and Twin 1 6000 rpm, 190F IAT vs 90F IAT nearly the same boost, Twin is flowing less.  <- part I am having problems with

You're welcome 

*duty cycle for the Twin 1 is with a race fuel system BRFPR return style, so disregard was only to see benefits of upgraded fuel system

I did an empirical study to test the new upgraded twincharger Bosch IAT sensor.  I attached two K-type thermocouples to the removed IAT sensor and placed them within 1 mm of the Bosch IAT sense bulb.  I tested 3-temp points soaking in water: 70F, 100F, 150F and the TC's are within 2 deg of the Bosch sensor.  The Turbo-only IAT sensor was built into the LE5 MAF sensor, I am using the same IAT scale cal now too.

[MattM]

I don't want to annoy you (I seriously want to help) so I'm going to ask a few questions and if you think it's annoying just don't answer me...

When you are at around 2000 rpms in 2nd and you floor it...does the boost jump immediately to between 7-10 psi?

If it does, you are Def spinning the SC like you thought (10 psi)...If the SC is spinning at 7-10psi then either the turbo isn't boosting to 15 psi like you thought or you have a vacuum leak (reason being that compound twincharged setup would mean a multiplication of the two boost numbers not an addition).

If your psi does not jump immediately to between 7-10 psi it means either the supercharger is not spinning as fast as you thought or you have a vacuum leak after the supercharger.

Just edited this last part bc I saw you said to disregard the duty cycle due to new fueling system.

[MattM]

Just looked at your datalog snippet again...according to the lambda reading you are running the twin setup leaner than the turbo setup.

According to my math...you were running the turbo setup at around an 11.5 afr but the twin setup around a 12.2 afr?

Isn't that a little too lean?  Do you have a knock sensor?

[Steelmesh]

When you are at around 2000 rpms in 2nd and you floor it...does the boost jump immediately to between 7-10 psi?

I was intentionally avoiding a WOT this low but can pull some timing around there to watch what the SC is doing that low, I haven't checked the tune there with the SC.  The 10 psi I am talking about 'is what it is' based on instrumented data.  TC makes 15 psi, total boost is 25 psi...therefore SC is adding 10 psi or 1.6X P/R. 

[Steelmesh]

Just looked at your datalog snippet again...according to the lambda reading you are running the twin setup leaner than the turbo setup.

According to my math...you were running the turbo setup at around an 11.5 afr but the twin setup around a 12.2 afr?

Isn't that a little too lean?  Do you have a knock sensor?

Yes it's leaner than I'd prefer it won't stay that way.  I've only flashed changes to the cal a few times so far with the twincharger, the problem right now with the tune is getting seat time.  There was no knock that I can tell, but I see there are lower IATs and also upgraded to a second nozzle for 50% more water/meth; both of these would help with the knock. 

[MattM]

Those IATs are nice as hell though with that kind of boost!

[Steelmesh]

Those IATs are nice as hell though with that kind of boost!

Yes I am impressed too.  The front intercooler is also looking pretty efficient, it is instrumented pressure and temp input and output; so now I would recommend one of those if anyone asks (CX racing 5"X5"X15"), consider I am seeing about a 5% pressure drop across it at 16 psi input pressure and maybe 360-380 whp.  In addition, the water hoses are 3/4" so I machined a hose insert to restrict the flow with a 1/2" hole for the 5x5x15 intercooler.  This seems to bode well if you run a dual pass LSJ intake in parallel with a 5x5x15 intercooler using only 1 bosch IC pump.  The honda heat exchanger is about the same volume as the upgraded ZZP HE for the Cobalt SS that would also make a difference if I didn't mention it.  The benefit of the honda radiator idea as a HE is that it fits up well to the engine radiator making the electric fan pull more air through it.

I'm curious to see how it deals with a 90F day in traffic when the system is heat soaked and all it has is the fan. And also compare IAT heat soak recovery time after getting out of traffic with the air-to-air data.

[Steelmesh]

TC boost and SC boost gauges on the pillar because twincharger, PLX and Aeroforce in your face:




Had the sound system since last year, figured while I was doing the gauge install may as do this. Upgraded 4 speakers and a 1000W 4ch amp.  It's cheap boss audio value equipment, but sounds good enough for me so far.  I also installed a Taitanium bluetooth touch screen radio and got the wires run for a backup camera.



This took about 4x longer than expected (gauges and sound system). When I was younger I did stuff super fast but half-assed, these days it's takes me forever to do things because I do it quarter-assed.

[Steelmesh]

Sit back, turn up the volume and listen to the sounds of a twincharged Solstice (with FP whine and interior harmonic resonances too, you're welcome).  Stuck in traffic so broke out the camera app...nothing too exciting but there is a WOT and bridge rev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvJcZ8cZn0

[Steelmesh]

I haven't mentioned it yet: how awesome the twincharger is functionally.  If you had a choice as far as the powertrain performance between turbo-only and SC only you'd for sure pick the twincharger.  Because I built it last year turbo only and raced it a little, I have the strong qualitative response that the twincharger seems "happier" overall (<- qualitative part). Not to mention with the aluminum flywheel and stage 3, clutching and taking off is much more forgiving.  These things are as expected, so that is good I am experiencing these benefits.  After my SPEC broke-in it became a small beast, seems it has been tamed by the SC.  Also check out the blowby after about 150 miles, that is less than I am use to seeing, did the SC seat my rings? Also remember when the LSJ intake leaked, I for sure steam cleaned the insides.


Lingenfelter Cars & Coffee (I rough counted 200+ cars)








150 miles blow-by, I was seeing 3x this with double baffle:

[DeepBlueGXP]

so the last pic is your oil?  or the drink itself

[Steelmesh]

so the last pic is your oil?  or the drink itself

That's the contents of the catch can. I was commenting on how it looks like it is improved wasn't sure if something changed here because of the SC.  If you go back to pages 5-6 you can see I built a catch can and pre-baffle and reading some of my posts there it now looks like this amount of accumulation I am getting right now is what is expected. 

[MattM]

Car looks and sounds great!!!! 

Do you have a Spec stage 3 and spec aluminum flywheel?  Cuz I've had mine on over a year and forgiving is definitely not the word I use to describe it...Stop and go SUCKS!!!

Anyway...glad everything came out ok for you!!! Can't wait to see what it does on the track!

[Steelmesh]

Car looks and sounds great!!!! 

Do you have a Spec stage 3 and spec aluminum flywheel?  Cuz I've had mine on over a year and forgiving is definitely not the word I use to describe it...Stop and go SUCKS!!!

Anyway...glad everything came out ok for you!!! Can't wait to see what it does on the track!

Yes SPEC stage 3 and SPEC al flywheel, LE5 engine.  With the twincharger setup it is not bad at all, the SC is certainly doing what it's supposed to.

[Sol Asylum]

Did you have to machine a spacer or something to get the proper engagement with the Spec Clutch?

[Steelmesh]

With so much going on I needed to sketch out the system a bit, below is what I am running now but I plan on making changes because I don't think it's fully optimized, but at least I know this setup is functional for now.  Also note, with this particular twincharger setup there are actually 3 different boost pressures (A, B, C in the diagram).  Like I said there is a lot going on and the engine calibration and controls/plumbing is a project in itself so I don't expect to have it figured out anytime soon.  I feel the WOT tune is good enough so I plan on heading to the drag strip next week and to see what happens.

[Steelmesh]

Did you have to machine a spacer or something to get the proper engagement with the Spec Clutch?

Only using the slave spacer, I think it is the Werks unit.  It was already installed when I bought this car with the exedy 2.

[MattM]

With so much going on I needed to sketch out the system a bit, below is what I am running now but I plan on making changes because I don't think it's fully optimized, but at least I know this setup is functional for now.  Also note, with this particular twincharger setup there are actually 3 different boost pressures (A, B, C in the diagram).  Like I said there is a lot going on and the engine calibration and controls/plumbing is a project in itself so I don't expect to have it figured out anytime soon.  I feel the WOT tune is good enough so I plan on heading to the drag strip next week and to see what happens.

Can't wait to see your numbers....Suspect first couple runs will be lots of spin at the start due to the immediate torque, but after the first few launches your 60' will drop by at least 2 tenths!  Can't wait to see it!

[Steelmesh]

Can't wait to see your numbers....Suspect first couple runs will be lots of spin at the start due to the immediate torque, but after the first few launches your 60' will drop by at least 2 tenths!  Can't wait to see it!

I am totally dropping the hammer this time to split the dictionary that way. Here's my logic:  I started super conservative last race day when I hit 13.0 (launch 12 psi, 2nd gear 25 psi scramble). And I'm considering that when I launched with full boost scramble, that is the run I money shifted and ran like 13.1 at 93 mph. 

I full pull 3rd, with a 4th gear shift for the last 60 ft I think haha so think about that 13.1 time with a speed of 93 mph is what I am thinking if you know what I mean 

The top 10 car list at work has 1st Place @ 12.2.  These knuckle heads at work forced me into their pool to buy a Genuine Pro-Wrestling belt with a cool car and tree graphic...I'll take it 

[MattM]

What's money shift?  That's crazy that 4th gear shift dropped your mph that much!  I Def see what you mean though....the 13.1 at 93 run....what were your 1/8th mile numbers?  (Mph and time)

[Steelmesh]

What's money shift?  That's crazy that 4th gear shift dropped your mph that much!  I Def see what you mean though....the 13.1 at 93 run....what were your 1/8th mile numbers?  (Mph and time)

For your viewing pleasure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qujTcBdznUw

[elff]

You have to be an idiot to shift from 3rd to 2nd.
No excuses, you are a ing idiot and don't know how to drive.

[Steelmesh]

2-1 for me.  With my AR5 trans under "full send" I put everything I got into the 2-3 shift, like my whole body gets into it and that has worked out for me quite well until that last incident.  Someone suggested to flip hand around to help naturally bias towards the right when headed for 3rd.  I calculated a max potential of 10,000 RPM, hptuners stopped recording shortly after 8k RPM. I built the engine to the 8,000 RPM spec (which I assume is sustainable as in bouncing the rev limiter), so possibly I got lucky with this quick transient.  I did leak down tests and no sign of bent valves lucky me the stock lash adjusters probably collapsed and saved me now that I am thinking of it.

[MattM]

Omg!  That is crazy!!!!!