Topic: Took the sky redline to the track Friday (9/28/2018)

[MattM]

So I decided to take the sky to Cecil County md dragstrip Friday. I only got three runs in and I was chasing the right "tune" with the wot box. It was strange and I never thought I would say this but the traction was too good! I had the wot box set at 3000rpms for two runs and it fell on its face allowing only a 14.1 and 14.2. Third run I upped it to 4000rpms and got some spin which helped. It was also my best run at 13.68.

With more time I know I can get it way down but this is the first time Ive run a rear wheel drive and sky down a dragstrip. Here are the vids:

This was the best time
https://youtu.be/pvj__ZRU9Bw


Two 14 second runs:
https://youtu.be/3mYa-4b7xhU


https://youtu.be/YdobvDOeTE8

[MattM]

I had 60 runs at the track with my supercharged probe gt and launching difference between front and rear wheel drive cars are huge!  I definitely think I can do better with more experience.  This was with just a trifecta base tune and the wot box.

[Critterman]

Stock clutch?   Need to ride the clutch a little more when you have grip like that.  You can see the nose drop before you really get moving.

[Steelmesh]

Nice job getting into the 13s.  I am going this Wednesday with a bunch of Mustangs, I am in your boat too with trying to launch a manual rwd car.  Slicks would be nice, but feel like I need to level up my skills to earn the slicks first.

[MattM]

Stock clutch?   Need to ride the clutch a little more when you have grip like that.  You can see the nose drop before you really get moving.

I have a spec 6 puck clutch with the spec flywheel.  Riding the clutch isn't really in the cards. 

Next time I go I think I'm going to take the wot box from 4000 rpms down to 3700 rpms which should give me that perfect launch (hopefully). 

The other thing I'm thinking I could do is utilize the no lift shift better.  For instance, I could feel the pull from the car let up some at around 5300 rpms in third then in 4th pulled really hard.  Since the no lift shift gives me full boost into 4th I think I'll try shifting at 5500 rpms from 3rd to 4th to maintain the hard pull.  I was shifting around 6000 rpms on friday.

[MattM]

Nice job getting into the 13s.  I am going this Wednesday with a bunch of Mustangs, I am in your boat too with trying to launch a manual rwd car.  Slicks would be nice, but feel like I need to level up my skills to earn the slicks first.

Dude!  We totally need to meet up!  Seriously!  Do you ever come to PA? 

For you though....I've thought about this a lot!  What you should do now is not worry about making your turbo setup any faster!  You want to do a twincharged kit anyway.  My advice is to get the CLUTCH m62.  It's smaller than the one on the cobalts...much more compact!  What I would do is setup the clutch to provide power only until it gets to maybe 8psi or so and then to shut off.  You could have a Y pipe with a valve that would close once the m62 shut off.  It would be much easier than what you are thinking about.

Anyway, the reason I'm telling you this....I have YEARS of experience with this supercharger and launches.  The problems you and I have are only because of the issues with turbo lag.  Like....I HAVE to have the WOT box to boost on the line.  You wouldn't need that at all with the m62.



I tried to put a picture in but it won't let me.  Google clutched m62 and just go to images you will see it.

Once you put that supercharger on your gas pedal will feel so much meaner on the line.  Even if it gives 6psi off the bat you will notice your launches are way easier because you have that immediate torque then you can modulate the gas pedal to limit spin and get you the great launch you need.  I'm serious!  You should just get the supercharger on there now!  You'll be glad you did!

[Sol Asylum]

Is that the image you wanted?

Right click the image, copy the address and use that in your post.

[MattM]

Thanks for the help!

[LatinVenom]

With ALL the dyno sheets that have been shown here and the BB at least with the K04 (OEM Turbo) full torque comes up at about 2500 RPM OK. Also with my modified big wheel K04 my 350 torque comes up also at 25-26K RPM.

[Steelmesh]

Dude!  We totally need to meet up!  Seriously!  Do you ever come to PA? 

For you though....I've thought about this a lot!  What you should do now is not worry about making your turbo setup any faster!  You want to do a twincharged kit anyway.  My advice is to get the CLUTCH m62.  It's smaller than the one on the cobalts...much more compact!  What I would do is setup the clutch to provide power only until it gets to maybe 8psi or so and then to shut off.  You could have a Y pipe with a valve that would close once the m62 shut off.  It would be much easier than what you are thinking about.

Anyway, the reason I'm telling you this....I have YEARS of experience with this supercharger and launches.  The problems you and I have are only because of the issues with turbo lag.  Like....I HAVE to have the WOT box to boost on the line.  You wouldn't need that at all with the m62.



I tried to put a picture in but it won't let me.  Google clutched m62 and just go to images you will see it.

Once you put that supercharger on your gas pedal will feel so much meaner on the line.  Even if it gives 6psi off the bat you will notice your launches are way easier because you have that immediate torque then you can modulate the gas pedal to limit spin and get you the great launch you need.  I'm serious!  You should just get the supercharger on there now!  You'll be glad you did!

Seems like this would require more work than the LSJ M62 setup.  The challenge with the LSJ is reconfiguring the inlet snout (cut + weld), once that is taken care of in theory everything is bolt-on.  I have most of the materials to make this happen; just a need a few belt routing details and a belt. 

The clutched unit would need some major intake customization and time investment, hood clearance could be a problem and thinking if you make it sit too low the flow path between the clutched M62 and the LSJ intake manifold might be constricted, looks like it is shifted the length of the LSJ M62 snout, that is like 8" jog over. 

Dave had mentioned before he's done LSJ M62 twinchargers and said I probably don't even need a bypass, but there is some specific vacuum hose routing too with the SC bypass valve. 

[MattM]

Here's a copy of that article I popped into your thread.
Steelmesh,  here is the perfect article that talks about what I mentioned to you in my dragstrip thread.  They use a clutched supercharger for their setup...

Check it out!

http://dsportmag.com/the-cars/supercharged-turbocharged-subaru-wrx-sti/

This to me would be the perfect setup.

What you describe sounds almost exactly like what ZZP did.  They definitely had some tuning issues with that setup.  The bypass will definitely have to be used in that setup as well.  In addition the supercharger still creates parasitic loss. 

What I'm describing will require that you mock a bracket to bolt the clutched setup to the engine to run of the belt.  You want it lower for extra piping.  Your supercharger inlet would just be a thin screen over the inlet of the supercharger and would not require any modification.  I'm also saying you should keep your same intake setup.  The only difference is that you would have a y pipe mocked up to allow the turbo pipe and supercharger pipe to meet.  That y pipe should have a one way valve (flap) that opens and closes with pressure.  When the supercharger is running it would be open then all you need for the clutch to work is a simple boost boost switch like this one https://www.snowperformance.net/Water-Methanol-Boost-Switch-p/sno-81014.htm

The only different is that the switch will be wired backwards to activate the supercharger BELOW maybe 8psi then shut it off after that.  Once the supercharger is shut of the valve in the y pipe will close letting the turbo take over. 

In the long run I think this setup will be much easier.  You aren't changing any intake manifolds or adding to much extra to the setup.  You are just finding a way to bolt the supercharger onto the engine then mocking up piping into the stock intake manifold. 

This way you will also not have ANY parasitic loss.  In addition, you don't need an extra intercooler or anything because you are already running meth and you won't be spinning the supercharger hard enough for much heat to build (since it will probably be shut off before 4000rpms). 

Trust me....this would be the easiest way!
 

[MattM]

With ALL the dyno sheets that have been shown here and the BB at least with the K04 (OEM Turbo) full torque comes up at about 2500 RPM OK. Also with my modified big wheel K04 my 350 torque comes up also at 25-26K RPM.

I get what you are saying, but until you have had a supercharged car and launched it at the track it's hard to explain.  If what you are saying about full torque being so low in the RPM range is true...Why when I had my 2 step set at 3000rpms was it bogging off the line?  It was still lagging somewhat. 

It's really hard for me to explain.  You'd have to have a small v6 or four cylinder with a turbo then switch to a supercharger or twincharged setup to get it. 

With a supercharger your torque number shoot straight up to max like 1500 rpms then stay there.  There is no need for it to build up boost...

[Steelmesh]

Trust me....this would be the easiest way!
 

I agree technically it is the best, but on the practical side it seems too complicated to integrate into the Solstice.  The only thing stopping me from using an LSJ SC is the inlet snout, once that is solve the LSJ pathway is the easiest to integrate.  I still question that the packaging will be easy with the clutched M62. 

2.4L engine bay:


LSJ shown in the engine bay:


My car now, the silicone intake tube going into the throttle body is rubbing the hood.  Clearance goes down towards the front.

[MattM]

Well as you saw the outlet is directly on the bottom of the m62 so you wouldn't have to worry about the inlet or outlet

[Steelmesh]

Well as you saw the outlet is directly on the bottom of the m62 so you wouldn't have to worry about the inlet or outlet

With the AC compressor removed there might be room to run piping under the SC.  If the SC can run upside-down or sideways it might help route the pipes.  Just imagining, turbo would feed into behind the SC and the SC outlet would have to snake up and around from underneath to get to the TB.  Also consider the SC hard mounting solution, in the midst of all the piping.

Anything is possible with enough labor and fab work...I'm just not sold on the rewards / incremental improvement of a clutched SC.  If I am successful with the LSJ M62 installation into a Solstice, I don't think I will have any trouble selling it as a one-off SC kit for a Solstice/Sky (because the SC inlet is modified to fit inside a kappa) if I don't like the SC or if I embrace the benefits of a clutched SC and explore that route.

[MattM]

I can confirm it is made to if need be run with the outlet pointing out from the motor or in....

Looking at the lsj SC setup you have there....you would have to cut the inlet of the sc way back then run a u pipe or coupler over the top of the supercharger pointing to the front of the car to then have the turbo run into the supercharger?  Would there even be room for that?  You said the turbo piping is rubbing already.  Maybe if you used like 2.5 or 2.25 inch piping?

[MattM]

Could u keep the inlet as is on the lsj SC and run the piping from the intercooler to the sc inlet BEHIND the engine?  Or would that mean moving too much stuff?

[Steelmesh]

Could u keep the inlet as is on the lsj SC and run the piping from the intercooler to the sc inlet BEHIND the engine?  Or would that mean moving too much stuff?

Firewall side is a no go, look at the picture above of the SC on top of the valve cover, the inlet is into the fire wall so I will 180 it back.  Tight radius aluminum tube: https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/fabrication/half-full-donuts/aluminium-donuts/af8600-250

As far as LSJ clearance, reference the picture below you will note there is space above and to the outside of the supercharger case.  I will try to match the TB mount diameter, so I am going to first look at 3" tube:


The N/A intake and TB sits higher than the SC, so the custom 180 tube would be about inline with the existing tube I have installed now see next picture:

[MattM]

Ah.  I see... Well that definitely should work then.  Good luck to you.  I def love the work so far!

[MattM]

Would you also be using the stock heat exchanger that comes on the LSJ supercharged Cobalt.

[Steelmesh]

Would you also be using the stock heat exchanger that comes on the LSJ supercharged Cobalt.

The H/E is a Honda Accord aftermarket engine radiator.  The area/volume is nearly the same as the ZZP H/E.

[Sol Asylum]

Have you check to make sure the radiator doesn't restrict your airflow?  The volume of coolant flowing through a radiator will be significantly less then the amount of air needed for an intake and that could result in a restriction if used for an intercooler.

[Steelmesh]

Have you check to make sure the radiator doesn't restrict your airflow?  The volume of coolant flowing through a radiator will be significantly less then the amount of air needed for an intake and that could result in a restriction if used for an intercooler.

  H/E was supposed to imply air-to-water. I've ditched the FMIC; am running a 3" barrel style air/water intercooler and then will parallel that with the LSJ intake intercooler when the S/C goes in.