Topic: FS Collector's cars 07 Solstice GXP & 09 Solstice GXP Coupe

[Filipp]

Here's a good article

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/0907/gallery.pontiac_solstice_coupe/index.html

To quote from it

"Longer term, Hagerty thinks the Solstice Coupe GXP has a decent shot at collector car cult stardom. It's rare and it's cool.

Of course, he concedes, predictions like this have been made before... and been wrong. When it comes to mass-market cars, it's often the ones you would least expect that eventually become hot properties. For instance, the laughable AMC Pacer is an underdog darling now.

Plus, the fact the car is so rare could actually work against it, said Phil Skinner, collector car editor for Kelley Blue Book. Old Chevrolet Camaros and Plymouth Hemi 'Cudas are collectible today because kids grew up watching them tear around town. They'll be lucky to ever see one or two of these cars.

"Nobody's really going to be able to have that memory," he said. "and that's part of the nostalgia thing."

If you make your car like Jazz from Transformers then your car may be worth something in 20+ years when the kids grow up and want to afford to buy a car that looked like something they wanted in there child hood. Other than that good luck.

And there are plenty on autotrader for MSRP such as this coupe

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=n&car_id=263045924&dealer_id=67059&car_year=2009&rdm=1247803631080&model=SOLSTICE&num_records=75&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2009&keywordsfyc=__Q291cGUgR1hQ__&keywordsrep=067111117112101032071088080&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=PONT&keywords_display=Coupe+GXP&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=91303&advanced=y&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=872&standard=false

[SOLTUL]

Filipp,  yes I found a lot on the internet for sale from dealers.  I tried calling all of them and they were either sold or were selling for more than listed.  I tried for 3 months calling these places.  The dealers are leaving them on the internet to get people calling them. I expect all dealers will be out of Solstice before the new models come out, maybe end of August.  I also know it may take time to get my price and I have time.  These coupes on autotrader have been added in the last few days.  I check autotrader often to keep up with prices.  I also have noticed in the last couple of weeks that the price on the 07 Solstice GXP has risen 1 to 2 k.  I believe we maybe in for a short term boost like we saw when the Oldsmobiles were going out.  Everything Oldsmobile was going at crazy prices.  This will level off by approx January to March.  I also noticed that the number of new Solstices on autotrader is going down.  The dealers that have survive have started getting the inventory from the dealers going under.  That is where mine came from. Ewing Pontiac in Texas had my coupe.  You know how when dealers take cars they usually trade.  The first coupe that my dealer found wanted to trade for only the new G8 V8, my dealer wouldn't do it.  The Ewing Solstice was bought right out and they went down to Texas and picked it up on a flatbed.  Everyone I found was sold or was sticker plus.  I know people keep saying they are plentiful but it took me a lot of time and trouble to get mine.

[Yamatr3]

  I know people keep saying they are plentiful but it took me a lot of time and trouble to get mine.

  So your just trying to make a quick buck off of it?

[SOLTUL]

Yes and no about the quick buck.  I really like the coupe.  At first I wanted to sell the coupe and keep the 07 convertible.  I am open to selling one or the other but would like to keep one.  Each one has its merits and loving both cars will make it hard to give up either one.  At times I would like to sell the convertible and hold forever the coupe and then I have really liked the 07.  So that is why I put both of them for sale and let the chips fall where they will.  Either way I will miss the one I sell, that is if I sell.  I will not give either one away.  I want a fair price.

[GXPinKC]

SOLTUL, you and I go back a long way on the old GXP Owners Forum, I joined their on 04-14-2006 and you on 06-04-2006 just two months apart.  For me it would be most difficult to part with either, but if push came to shove, and I owned one of each, it would be the Coupe that would go.  I enjoy my Roadster Convertible the most when the top is down and flying down the highway at 65 or 70 mph.  You talk about looks, that is mighty fine!  I am sure you will soon find out which one is the keeper!

[SOLTUL]

I am working to keep both, but must be practical too.  My first love is golf.  I live on a tee box of a golf course, I own a golf cart.  I play 3-4 times a week and play tournament golf on weekends.  Finding time to keep up all my interest is tough.  But boy do I love these Solstices.  I have both of them debagged and it really helps the lines plus the polishing.  I always liked the lines but driving the coupe home following my wife in the convertible was a blessing and increased my appreciation for those lines.  I haven't polished the coupe, looking forward to this next week, my wife will be out of town, I will be able to jack the coupe up and detail her over the week and that will be enjoyable.  No one messes with me when I am in the garage detailing and I want that time of relaxation.  Sometimes I get carried away and go late into the nite but never a regret.  I know most people love driving these cars and that is fun but detailing is what I enjoy most, crazy huh?

[SOLTUL]

For the skeptics about the price I have on the coupe, I just visited with a dealer in Seattle that has a coupe for sale for $43,385 and it lacks about $900 in options mine has.  Also in talking with her they just sold a coupe for $12,000 over MSRP.  They have a few people looking at buying the one like mine.  She said people are startting to realize there are not going to be any more Pontiacs.   

[LiquidPT]

For the skeptics about the price I have on the coupe, I just visited with a dealer in Seattle that has a coupe for sale for $43,385 and it lacks about $900 in options mine has.  Also in talking with her they just sold a coupe for $12,000 over MSRP.  They have a few people looking at buying the one like mine.  She said people are startting to realize there are not going to be any more Pontiacs.   

Was this the one in Auburn? If so, they're f'n idiots... I drove down to Tacoma and got mine for MSRP.

PS - I might have missed this, but are you based out of Seattle, or are you here visiting?

[GregGXP]

For the skeptics about the price I have on the coupe, I just visited with a dealer in Seattle that has a coupe for sale for $43,385 and it lacks about $900 in options mine has.  Also in talking with her they just sold a coupe for $12,000 over MSRP.  They have a few people looking at buying the one like mine.  She said people are startting to realize there are not going to be any more Pontiacs.   

Not that a dealer would ever lie about the price they sold a car for  , but honestly, they can mark it up to whatever they want, but it will only ever be worth what someone is willing to pay for it. You might call me a skeptic, but I prefer realist.

[KWhale]

There is a huge difference between what a dealer can "ask" for a car, and what a private seller can ask for.  The dealership offers to take trade ins, they offer long term financing at 0% or close to it as well.  A private seller usually doesn't have the resources to offer financing, so the buyer is at the mercy of the banks, for much higher interest rates.  Also a buyer who is buying on a whim, usually needs to get rid of a car, and the trade in option is a huge incentive for people buy a car because they saw it and just have to have one.  If you find a buyer who has the ability to pay cash, and not worried about a trade, then he's probably a fairly smart manager of his money, and would not pay an inflated price for a car, in the hope it appreciates.

I agree with LPT, if people are paying 12k over MSRP, they have more money than brains!  SOL, you need to find one of those types of people!! 

[SOLTUL]

You are so right KWhale dealers can ask a lot more than me.  Look what has happened in the last two weeks to the price of the coupe.  I believe you have not seen anything yet.  What you are seeing is the dealers starting to realize what the coupe will be worth.  The realist looks at 800 quantity and realizes the true value based on instant rarity.   Collectors do not trade in at a dealer, $40k for a collector is nothing, most of them are over $100k investors.  I want everyone buying a coupe to drive, drive, drive it.  Everyone that is driven helps the collector value.  I have already seen one totaled, all that does is drive up the price. 

My position is still, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE DEALERS NO LONGER HAVE ANY?   If you like the looks of the coupe, are you alone?  At car shows people are seeing the coupe for the first time and they show some of the same faces we as owners had. 

Financing, trade ins, interest rates are not issues with this car.  People that want to trade something in are looking for daily drivers.  People that need financing are going to drive their cars, mostly.  This car and the convertible will be a real chance as a collector.  Just name another PRODUCTION car that stands a better chance at becoming a collector than these cars, coupes or convertibles.  Numbers is a collectors dream.  SUPPLY AND DEMAND is what drives the price of most collectors.

[KWhale]

Here's one I found on another site.  They are selling it below MSRP for some reason

http://www.griffinmonroe.com/VehicleDetails/439706233

[LiquidPT]

Here's one I found on another site.  They are selling it below MSRP for some reason

http://www.griffinmonroe.com/VehicleDetails/439706233

That's the ZOK mentioned in another thread... no A/C, but one heck of a suspension.

[SOLTUL]

KWhale, I found some others listed below sticker, I called a few and it seems the price is a little higher now.  Found one listed on autotrader for $34k but now is $43k.  For every one that you find under sticker I now can find one above sticker.  The prices are moving.   About this car with a great suspension but no air, give me a break, like a collector would be interested.  Value is based on demand not just rarity.  How many people race their cars that own them 1%? 2%?  On another post a few were talking about the car and how they would like to have the car, for what?  To race? 

I had my coupe at a small car show tonight.  There is an interest.  There just aren't as many Solstices in the mid american states as the two coasts.  It is rare to see a Solstice.  To see a Solstice coupe is even more rare.  Time is on my side for selling the coupe, it is not going anywhere and I do not have to sell it.  I just can't justify having two Solstices, but I will keep them both until I get my price.

After the 30th of July I will be raising my price to $40,568.  I also am thinking about a couple of necessary options.  I have found the GM canvas top for $758.00 plus 74.67 for the cover for the hard top.  If I get the options I will be increasing the price accordingly, or $41,400.00 and I believe I will get it.

[SOLTUL]

The dealers still have some Coupes for sale.  That said, out of all the ones I can find there is only one GXP coupe for sale that has standard transmission.  I have been trying to find an exact amount of the GXPs that have manual and I have had no luck there.  Thanks for some links given by some of you I have found some info on this but not exact.   

[GregGXP]

Have you looked at cars.com?  They list 40 GXP Coupes, many with manual transmission in the 33-34K range. Not sure where you are seeing only one manual GXP couple available.

[SOLTUL]

I always thought the number one place to buy or sell cars was autotrader and that is where I went.  I have never gone to cars.com but now that I know about it I will.  Thanks.


P.S.  I went to cars.com, what a piece of crap.  Autotrader is better organized, you can sort by coupe or convertible, it shows auto or manual upfront, you have to search thru a lot of items to find any one thing about the car.  On a few of the coupes I looked at I couldn't find if it was auto or manual.  Maybe I just have to get use to the layout but it looks like a lot of unnecessary work to me.

I stand corrected, I went back to cars.com, easy to sort.  I checked the recent listings  I found most to be auomatic that have been listed in the last two weeks.  I also found out that if a dealer accepts the SUMMER CLOSEOUT sale by GM, all inventory has to be sold at discount unless they add to the car additonal items at the dealer.  That could help some who still want a coupe, be sure to keep dealer honest.  The numbers are shrinking and if you call, as I have, some of the dealers the cars are gone and still listed.  The coupe I bought 6-26-09 is still listed as for sale.  

[Sol Asylum]

The coupe I bought 6-26-09 is still listed as for sale.  

Thats because it is!  Remember you just raised the price on it and threatened to raise the price again if it doesn't sell.

[SOLTUL]

Sol Asylum, I have nothing but time, I am in no hurry to sell.  It will sell in due time, in the meantime I have two great looking cars to polish and detail.  What about it Sol Asylum aren't these great cars and don't you think there are people out there that are going to want these cars.  If you and I love these cars don't you think others do and will?   Limited supply and limited fun and enjoyment.  I will have fun until they sell taking both of them to car shows.  They really look good setting next to each other.  That is why in due time, in due time.   

BTW, I have not raised the price yet, but I will as I add things to it.  Just think if I raise the price to where no one buys it, well I still have it and enjoying it.

[Sol Asylum]

Yeah I like my GXP too but....

I have another one of those limited number cars that was supposed to appreciate with age, after almost 30 years the market is still so so and the cars really aren't worth much.

There are a few others on this list that also have a Triumph wedge that know what I am talking about.  The story is pretty similar to the Kappas.  The first of the model was the TR7 coupe (around 1975) but it was belittled because it had a weak 4 banger so they started working on a V8 version (1978) which would become the TR8.  There were very few TR8 coupes and many TR7 coupes before they introduced the convertible in late 79.  Production of the wedge cars ended with the 81 model year but not many were made that year as Triumph went out of business.  So in the grand scheme of things lots of TR7 coupes were made but not well liked, few TR8 coupes were made but the convertibles were more desirable, The convertible 7's were received better but less were made then the 7 coupes and more 8 convertibles were made then 8 coupes.  So given that a TR8 is more desirable then a TR7 and less 8 coupes were made then verts you would think that they would fetch the highest sale price today right?  Well you would be wrong because most people want the 8 convertible the 7 can be converted to an 8 if you install the V8 and do some other mods so these 7 V8's are next highest on the list the 7 verts with 4 banger and 8 coupes might be a draw on price but wait the 7 coupes of which they made many are now quite rare because they were not liked and most were trashed.  So because the others which were thought to be more collectible were kept in pretty good condition if one has a 7 coupe in good condition it might actually end up being the most rare and who knows what that will do to the price.

But the point is that of the wedges the TR8 coupe of which less then 1000 were made and thus the most rare can today be bought for less then $10k.  In fact you can buy a nice 8 vert for less then $10k too, I've seen examples of all the versions sell in the 3k range.  So were they a good investment?  Only if you drove them because at best you might break even when you adjust for inflation, if you had to do any work on them (its British of course you had to do work on them) you lost money.

In 1981-2 there were a lot of people that thought that a TR8 was someday going to be worth something, they are still waiting for that someday, I don't think many will live to see it if it ever does happen.  You see most that are old enough to remember what a Triumph was will at best regard it as a toy car but not an investment grade car.  Younger people don't even know what a Triumph was, they always ask "who makes them?" They look neat to the younger crowd but they are British so they aren't reliable so no "kid" is going to buy one and with the older crowd getting older who is going to buy them.  It's all supply and demand and you might be able to predict supply but demand will bite you in the ass every time.

What I take from your posts is that you like both cars and don't really want to get rid of either but your wife wants you to sell one or the other so you are just asking a price that you don't really think anyone will pay and if someone does...well you'll cross that bridge if you come to it.

[SOLTUL]

Sol Asylum, you are mostly right.  I owned a Triumph too for a very short time, I had nothing but trouble with it.  I owned it for about 3 months.  I believe a big difference here is the name Pontiac and it shutting down.  Triumph if I remember just didn't sell because it was a piece of junk.  I am really surprised at some of the comments on my pricing.  Since I was made aware of cars.com I have checked there and traders.com and the two sites have 3 Solstice GXP's for sale by private sellers.  Two red coupes with over 7,000 miles at cars.com.  One is auto and one is manual, they are asking approx. $34k and $33k.  My price is no where out of line.  The only people that think it is out of line are the people at this web site, which is the biggest surprise.  Most of the people here are not collectors but drivers and that is cool.  I enjoy reading about the mods that people have done to these cars and plan on doing some of them to one of my cars.  I do not race, I do not over extend the cars.  The big difference in the Triumph and the Solstice is, in my opinion, is American and Pontiac.  Also, the lines of the Solstice are so unique.  We will see if my price is too high, with dealers asking and getting $44k and $45k I think my price is in line.  As dealers run out of these cars mine will get more attention.  I have a profit margin I want, so as I put money into the coupe I will raise the price to keep that margin.  If no one buys the car great, I will not give either of them away.  BTW, I told my wife, who is out of town, that I have put the Solstices up for sale, she asked why don't you want to keep both of them. What a jewel, she loves both of them too. :bdh

[Buzzardt]

Well, I went to autotrader and found about 20 Coupes within 100 miles of me , being in Texas that's not a long drive, and two of them were 28,000+. One an Auto and the other a Stick. These are new cars.

[amo]

This guy has no interest really in selling them.  Instead is posting here where everyone already has a Solstice to get a rise out of the people who read this dumb post.  Hey, maybe I'll put my '06 up for sale.  Hmmm...let the starting price be 26k and when I hit 25k miles I will add another 5k to my price.  And any mod I do add it to the asking price cause everyone who buys a used car from a private seller always pays for those added after market parts.  LOL, get real if you add anything to car you don't add that price into the bottom line, a dealer could but you shouldn't.  The people that are selling their cars on here actually are asking fair prices except for you,  And you say that the cars on cars.com and autotrader are asking 40k+ but how long have they been on there or taken off waited and put up again.  I will say all of them.  Maybe you should take them off the market and wait until all the coupes are sold from dealers and then put it up again for 40k and see how many hits you get.  Sorry I might be young and stupid but I think i have more common sense.  Most americans would rather drive and find the cheaper car then say oh this one is 8-10k more and its only 100 miles away but, wait there is one 200 mies away for 30k.  Hmm which one to go for.  Everyone will drive an extra hour and a half or more to save that much money.

I feel the car still aren't in the collectors eye yet because they have been around for only a few years.  Give them time to sink in, try 30 years and see what happens.  As much as I love mine I don't see that happening.  So drive them to dinner/detail them to your hearts content or where ever but enjoy it.  Don't ask some ridiculous price cause you can and you what to meet a certain margin when you sell it.  What twice what you paid for it?  So you can go buy another and start all over again.

[Sol Asylum]

Actually the big problem with the TR7/8 was that its shape was so radically different from previous Brit cars and the fact that the EPA crap made them perform poorly when compared to the TR6.  Since there was overlap between the TR6 and TR7 most people would just buy the TR6.  Then the unions started making big demands to a cash short business and would end up on strike or to "stick it to the company" they did half ass work and basically sabotaged the cars they were making.  Then to make matters worse the exchange rate between USA and Britain put the sell price of the cars equal to or more expensive then a new Vette.

The truth is there is a lot of similarities between the Brit car industry of the 70's and todays American cars.  Both perceived quality and price.

The comments on this forum with regard to your price is probably because a lot of the people on this forum a quite knowledgeable about these cars and as such know how one can still acquire a car from a dealer for a reasonable price, they also know what a reasonable price is or at least think they do. The lines of the Solstice are not that unique there have already been quite a few comparisons between them and other cars.  As for the idea that its "American and Pontiac" big deal part of the reason for the demise is because it was Pontiac and an American car. 

The idea that because so few coupes where built makes them rare and more valuable may end up being false.  The general population may actually shun the coupe and prefer the convertible which would mean the convertible would end up being more valuable.  Think about it if the coupes were really popular then wouldn't GM have made more of them, yes I know the market went south and may have played its part in how many were made but lots of us on this list ordered our GXP well before they were even being made.  Wouldn't people who wanted the coupe have preordered one well in advance too?  If that was the case wouldn't most of the coupes have been sold before they even hit the dealers lot?  The truth is most on this list didn't order a coupe they went to a dealer and purchased one from their stock.

The point is its almost impossible to predict what car will become a collectors item, heck it might end up being one of those Yugos we all made fun of.  What stirred up most of us here is when someone thinks that simply because they bought one that they will overnight be able to make a $5-10K profit on it or that if it doesn't sell immediately that they can raise the price because surely its worth more after a month or so.  These cars aren't going to gain value over night it may take 20-30 years before that happens if it happens.  Just because a dealer is asking over MSRP doesn't mean the car is worth it either.  How many dealers asked over MSRP when the GXP came out?  Some people actually paid over MSRP but that doesn't mean that their GXP is worth more then mine because I paid less then MSRP it means theirs depreciated at a greater rate, or that they got screwed.  If you bought the car as a potential investment to sell to a collector keep in mind any mod that you do to it is likely to negatively affect the price not increase it, the cars that fetch the high sale price at collectors auctions are bone stock.  You can ask what ever price you want for a car but saying you are in the right price range because others are asking the same amount doesn't mean that is what the car is worth.  I mean I like my GXP as do many others here but if I list it for $5 million and I get ten others on here to ask the same price that doesn't mean its worth that or that I have an accurate price on it, even though I would surely sell it for that if someone would give me that.

It's only worth what someone will pay and its pretty unlikely that you will find that someone here on this list.

I hope your right that these cars will gain in value but I am not banking on it I mean I have more faith in being able to retire with the money my 401k yields but I think thats a slim chance too I'm just glad retirement for me isn't for another 30 years. 

[SOLTUL]

Sol Asylum, we'll see.  I also ordered my 07 in March of 06.  I do have the luxury of both and the capabilities of owning both.  I will get my price or not sell.  Who knows I may trade for something else.  As an owner of the 09 Coupe I have my options and since I got an extremely good price on the Coupe and the convertible I can get a return which ever way I go.  Thanks for the info and I know you are right about the members of our forum not being the audience I need to reach, but you don't know about the guest visiting this web site and others.

My best chance of selling either of these cars is thru my contacts and shows.  Thanks for being very objective.  And about tha 401k, I am a stock broker and investment advisor at my own firm.  Move to cash when the market is high and move into the market when it is low, works every time.