Topic: Trifecta tuning for solstice - good numbers

[Arabas]

Good question tazz! i was wondering that myself... looking forward for answers

[snaponbob]

There are some limitations inherent in the Ecotec engines in general, but strength doesn't seem to be one.

As for the LNF, the exhaust ports become restrictive above 7000 rpm (porting would fix that) but valve float is an issue north of 7500 rpm.

Can 30psi leak past the intake valves? Doubtful. At this point 30psi is theoretical, and even if it's achieved it will be at much lower rpm (3500 +/-) as the stock turbo runs out of oomph above 5300 rpm.

With bigger turbos high boost won't really be needed since the efficiency range will increase as will the air volume.

We'll find out soon enough what works and what doesn't.

[Arabas]

nice one snapbob!! right to the point! have to read it again though... too much information for me! thanx!

[snaponbob]

nice one snapbob!! right to the point! have to read it again though... too much information for me! thanx!

Fixed it a little. HTH.

Personally, what I want to see is 24-25 psi from 2800 to 5000 with less drop off to 6000 AND no KR. Of course, I want $13,500 DJIA again TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CJ Krause]

Now that i am on the forum if you have any questions i have asked Vince to sign up and make comments and hopefully he will chime in.

there is a 2.4 HHR w a M62 is running 300+ hp and JoeR is a HP tuner but he is also a auto engineer. i am boosting my HHR but i am a 2.2 and JoeR gave me alot of tips in setting up the air intake and heat exchanger. I have done many cobalt 2.2, 2.4 and 2.0 SC and TC tunes and all w great numbers.

the dual steal infinity tune is amazing and works great on balts and hhrs.
i am a gearhead from the 60s starting w a 64 Chevy II Nova that i put a 327 in and then stripped and dragged a 62 Chevy Nova and loved the car.

Vince was the first and only person to break the tune on the 05 2.2 cobalt and 06 2.2 and i was the first 06 2.2 hhr ever tuned and many since then.

if i can answer any questions thru Vince let me know.

[DeepBlueGXP]

If he uses HPTuners, then our tunes should be stealth also since we use HPTuners also.

[lil goat]

He doesn't use HP tuners as I understand it, while the tune may not show, there is a counter that increments every time the car has a tune installed, as I understand it this can not be changed, but it can not be read with a Tech II.

 Everyone remember that boost does not equal horsepower, you get HP gains from an intercooler and most reduce boost to some degree due to increased volume. I am just saying don't get caught up in more boost more boost. Is the boost usable and what does the all important torque curve look like. I have quit looking at dyno numbers or even boost numbers, they are misleading at best. Show me the torque curve or a 1.4 mile slip. I want max torque down low where I need it and I want the torque to hold to at least 6000 rpm at a reasonable level, and I want it flat, even if it slopes down as it usually will I want it flat, and that is from any tuner not just Vince. Want real power get an LNJ instead of the LNF, you can make more power than a V-8 easily with the right setup, just ask Gary Gardella 1400hp Red Bull Cobalt and a 600 hp Solstice GXP, the Solstice could easily be driven on the street if you could find race gas.

[CJ Krause]

the he was JoeR and not Vince. i should have put his name.
Joe boosted a 2.4 HHR and has been helping me on the intake and heat exchanger in setting my SC up.

on the stealth tune a dealer can not read it but if the ECM was sent to GM they could tell.

[snaponbob]

the he was JoeR and not Vince. i should have put his name.
Joe boosted a 2.4 HHR and has been helping me on the intake and heat exchanger in setting my SC up.

on the stealth tune a dealer can not read it but if the ECM was sent to GM they could tell.

Welcome on board the board.  

I have to say that I am a very happy Wester's customer/user. Saying that, any questions I have MUST be understood as ONLY questions, and not challenges. Additionally, an opinions I may share should read in the same way. If it becomes apparent that for racing (SCCA Solo) the Trifecta is "better" than Lyndon's product, then I would simply HAVE to change horses. (Time will tell what he comes up with.) Also, as a Mod on this site, I am speaking ONLY for me and not the site or owners.

Okay, with the disclaimer out of the way,
1) HOW is the increased boost achieved without spinning the snot out of the turbo?
2) Do you have some dyno results that can be posted? I really want to see where the power starts building and how far out it extends.
3) Is the AIR VOLUME increasing at the same rate the boost is increased?
4) If the answer to 3 is yes, how is the fuel system dealing with that and not inducing KR?
5) What is the octane requirement to take advantage of the increased boost? Is a spray system required?

I spoke with Vince when all this hit this forum (apparently for the second time) a couple weeks ago. Very informative and open. He did say that the Cobalt and HHR SS's clutches can't contain the power. Apparently the LNF package is stronger. At that point my impression was positive, but decided to see what "surfaced". So those are some of the questions that have bubbled up in my head.

[Sly Bob]

4) If the answer to 3 is yes, how is the fuel system dealing with that and not inducing KR?

KR? 

[Uranium-238]

Knock Reduction

[DeepBlueGXP]

Knock Retard

[snaponbob]

Knock Retard

Ding ding ding ---- WINNAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CJ Krause]

1) HOW is the increased boost achieved without spinning the snot out of the turbo?
2) Do you have some dyno results that can be posted? I really want to see where the power starts building and how far out it extends.
3) Is the AIR VOLUME increasing at the same rate the boost is increased?
4) If the answer to 3 is yes, how is the fuel system dealing with that and not inducing KR?
5) What is the octane requirement to take advantage of the increased boost? Is a spray system required?

there is a dyno that Brian did on the tread on this forum where we did a dyno tune. he would probably send it to you if you asked him.
i sent the questions to Vince and here are his answers

1)  We do not spin the turbo any faster than it would spin under different conditions
2)  I don’t have any dyno results but there is a customer on the Cobalt forum that posted a 331HP/393TQ dyno sheet on the most aggressive tune.
3)  Air volume numbers are higher at higher boost – especially in the mid RPM range where we see the biggest boost increases
4)  All fueling is MAF based on this car – more air means the ECM mixes more fuel.  We cannot be as aggressive on the timing curve, for obvious reasons at the higher boost level without incurring KR.
5)  No additional requirements – I am running it on a stock HHR SS

Vince Geglia
Trifecta Performance, Inc.

[snaponbob]

Well, the answer of #1 begs another question. What "different conditions" are referred to, and at ~3200 (where max boost usually occurs) how much harder is the turbo spinning?

I'll see if I can find that thread with the dyno chart. Thanks.

Okay, didn't find it. Can you post a link here?

[VinceTrifecta]

Hi all, CJ suggested I come to the forum and help field any technical questions that there might be about our tune for the LNF.

>What "different conditions" are referred to, and at ~3200 (where max boost usually occurs) how much harder is the turbo spinning

As everybody knows the turbo is ECM controlled in the LNF (which is why a tune alone can get such great gains).  There is a boost control solenoid that sort of works like a light switch dimmer.  When the ECM sets it to "0% duty cycle" the turbo is allowed to make as little boost as possible as controlled by the ECM.  When the ECM sets it to "95% duty cycle" the turbo is allowed to spin as fast as possible as controlled by the ECM.  Other things impact turbo speed, such as the wastegate function, wastegate spring weight, exhaust flow, etc.

The ECM will command 95% DC on its own (without our influences) when there is a large discrepancy between the desired boost and the actual boost.  In most cases, however, it will not exceed 80% DC.

Our tune allows us to bend some of the rules in the ECM regarding how much boost is allowed so we can go beyond the "hardcoded limits" of around 21-22psi sustained.  With the stock turbo this has some of the most dramatic effects in the mid range, although the roadsters seem to react differently to this tune than the Cobalt/HHR does (more modest effects in the mid range but a flatter power curve at higher RPM).

[snaponbob]

Welcome on board, Vince. I was glad to punch the ACTIVATE button. Looking forward to more info on this thread. We spoke about 2 weeks ago, and you are a welcome addition to this site.

[Kelu]

Welcome Vince, it's nice to have direct conversations for both sides.

1) What would be the differences between kappas and Cobalt/HHR regarding your tune?

2) How do you find the stock air flow in kappas, I mean the stock airbox with a k&n panel filter is enough for a configuration with stock turbo and a hi-flow/free-flow exhaust and maybe upgraded intercooler? I think this question includes the IC piping.

3) I didn't understood something, the instant activation feature doesn't apply to Infiniboost version but to Switchable Tune which can be made at a desired boost, what are the differences between Infiniboost version and Switchable Tune?

[VinceTrifecta]

Welcome Vince, it's nice to have direct conversations for both sides.

1) What would be the differences between kappas and Cobalt/HHR regarding your tune?

2) How do you find the stock air flow in kappas, I mean the stock airbox with a k&n panel filter is enough for a configuration with stock turbo and a hi-flow/free-flow exhaust and maybe upgraded intercooler? I think this question includes the IC piping.

3) I didn't understood something, the instant activation feature doesn't apply to Infiniboost version but to Switchable Tune which can be made at a desired boost, what are the differences between Infiniboost version and Switchable Tune?

1)  So far it looks like we can't make quite as much boost on the Kappa.  I've only seen the one car so far, though.  Our aggressive tune made about 26psi sustained on the Kappa where we've seen 28-30psi sustained (in the mid RPM range) on the Cobalt/HHR. 

2)  I don't have much data on this.  My HHR SS has the stock intake system except for a K&N cone filter on the end of the intake.  This works well on my car, anyway.

3)  Infiniboost and Select-a-tune come hand-in-hand.  They are both features of our newest LNF tune and although there are a couple cars out there with just Infiniboost out there, we are only offering Infiniboost, select-a-tune (and hide-a-tune) as a package with our newest LNF tune.  If people want to disable the select-a-tune feature we can do that, though.

[VinceTrifecta]

Welcome on board, Vince. I was glad to punch the ACTIVATE button. Looking forward to more info on this thread. We spoke about 2 weeks ago, and you are a welcome addition to this site.

Thanks!  It's great to be here!

[Imaj]

G'day Vince! Glad to see you here. I can't thank you enough for working my tune. It was a blast! I hope you enjoy the ride here.

I have not had my car since the tune. It is getting painted. I can't wait though...the temps here in Dallas have been in the 70's.

[CJ Krause]

Brian is that to fix the paint problems you showed me.
did you scan and put your dynos anywhere on your tune?

[Imaj]

Hi CJ...Yup...It went in to get the paint problems taken care of under warranty. I swapped ECM's before I brought it in for paint.

[1LILNDN]

 Vince welcome to the Kappa performance Forum only the Best Forum this Side of Anywhere. Enjoy our posts .        

[U4EA]

Vince, Good too see you here on the forum. I'm sure with your knowledge on the LNF platform you will be fielding many questions.

With your previous experience in tuning Cobalt/HHR LNFs have you tuned any with the GMPP upgrade tune and sensors?
If yes, are there pros and cons, prefer to tune stock ECM/stock sensors or GMPP tune upgraded sensors? The best results?

Also see in your sig. you have an '08 LS3, I too have an '08 Coupe and curious if you have tweaked yours and if so what have been the results.