Topic: Trifecta tuning for solstice - good numbers

[Kelu]

3)  Infiniboost and Select-a-tune come hand-in-hand.  They are both features of our newest LNF tune and although there are a couple cars out there with just Infiniboost out there, we are only offering Infiniboost, select-a-tune (and hide-a-tune) as a package with our newest LNF tune.  If people want to disable the select-a-tune feature we can do that, though.

So, to put it on practical aspect, we can switch on the fly between stock tune, a 22psi tune let's say and a 28psi tune?

Thanks for your reply.

Also one new question:
Can you give more info about GT Tuner, this allows us to do logs and write tunes, this allows also error codes reading/deleting? What other tasks can be done with GT Tuner? A comparison between GT Tuner and HP Tuner which we know.

[LatinVenom]

Vince:
Welcome to the forum.
I send you an e-mail a couple of days ago. Have you had a chance to review all of what I send?.
Maybe with my Upgraded wheel our LNF can sustain 28-29 psi, looking forward to your response.
Thank you in advance.
Alvaro\LV

[lil goat]

While I think the higher boost levels are great I have a concern about "hot air" the higher the boost the hotter the air, the stock intercooler on the Kappa is barely adequate for the stock setup, and heat soaks very quickly. I have an upgraded intercooler but even with it I am thinking at 28-29 psi if we can get there, it might need to be even bigger, or at least more efficient. I have tried to see just a torque curve for your tune, I quit looking a numbers long ago, to many variances between dyno's I just want to see the curve. The only one I have seen showed peak torque at 4400, that didn't seem right and in your earlier post you mentioned peak around 3200, that is where I am used to it. I have had tune on my car for a very long time, and I am pretty happy with it. If there is something better out there that would be awesome. I see about 25 psi now, most recently on a Dyno Dynamics with zero compensation was at 251hp and 287 tq. The chart is below. I have seen runs of 287 on other dyno's, the latest run has the flattest tq curve so far.

[tazz]

You are very correct in your assumption about hot air kind of the law of diminishing returns.  You would however see increases in tq at first from the initial increase of boost but as the air compresses and heats up the amount of power extracted from that hotter air becomes less and to a point where it will actually may hurt your performance at the top end.  That's where you need to make the heat transfer better by either a larger innercooler area and a larger wheel that's more efficient that can build the boost quicker.  
It would be great to see a power curve graph for a vehicle that you could change just the boost level in 2psi increments from stock level to lets say 30psi  all done on the same day in a less than a 8hr span.  This would allow you to really see where the efficiency really drops off.  My guess is that any higher than 22-23 is really pushing the efficiency so if you want to go higher you really need to change at minimum the innercooler and even maybe go with a larger wheel but with that come some trade offs and that's what every mod will give you period.  The trade offs could be fuel mileage to reliability to driveability or any number of other things.  What everyone needs to do is figure what they want and don't want and go from there and make sure everything works in conjunction with one another and not against each other.

Lil Goat is also right on when it comes to where Lyndon is coming from.  Lyndon wants to give US the best overall tune he can.  The Best may not be  highest boost the most timing or a tune that's on the edge.  A good tuner will always leave a certain amount on the table even though they can give you more because they also want to give you a reliable tune that they feel good to give the customer and that will very tuner to tuner.  
Not in any way saying that anything negative about Vince since it sounds like he knows what he's talking about.  Just be very informed and gather as much info as possible to make a good informed decision and be clear on what you want but also understand the limitations.

[tazz]

One thing to remember is that even though the tune is stealth and Vince mentioned this already is that it still and can be detected by GM if they send the ECM off for analysis.  If your just going in for routine maint this stealth ability is fine and will probably never be detected.  If you however are taking in your vehicle because of a major issue the dealer will most probably have to have a GM Rep sign off on the work and they will more than likely look at your ECM more closely to findout if a tune is being used.  While you might think it's too much trouble for them to do this think again.  I personally know of other car companies FORD that they will automatically send the ECM off of the Lightnings and Cobra's for this analysis if a major issue is on the table.  
Always live by the Motto IF YOU PLAY YOU MIGHT HAVE TO PAY and make you decisions according to what you are comfortable in losing.

[Imaj]

LOL Kelu...I have been to Romania before. Let's do it!

[kennysabarese]

i'd love to see that!

[LatinVenom]

My interest on the trifecta tune is because I have the Upgraded turbo with the larger wheel.
I like my present tune from yet another well respected Vendor of our community and that is DDM.
In my case what picked my interest is the capability of his tune to go much higher in psi, which is the reason I got the upgraded larger wheel in the 1st place.
I have send Vince a lot of information about the K04 turbo with the larger wheel upgrade and also gave him info about BTF. Hopefully he would talk to Rick(BTF) and get additional information on the upgraded wheel.
So far I have not received an answer, but it was a lot of information, maybe he will e-mail back soon with some answers.
In the mean time I will hopefully be purchasing an improved DDM tune for my BTF K04 Upgraded turbo wheel.
What I wish is the cable and interface he(Vince) uses could upload and download tunes so I can try different tunes in my car.

[CJ Krause]

Vince already has experience with the LNF on a Cobalt w a larger turbo. We did a tune on a larger dejon turbo and he got to the point of getting better boost up past 30+ but had other issues and they are working that out.
with this project Vince learned how to totally control the internal MAP clamps which allows have control over the boost

those #s should be posted soon since they are really close and Richard will most likely do that on the CobaltSS.net forum

on the GT1 turners. those are like PDAs that just let Vince read datalogs and kill codes but that is about it. same as the cable and box that i use only difference is mine is for all GMs 95 and later and those are for later models

as to why Vinces dyno curve looks like the factories, after talking to him today, Vince has total control of the turbo the whole time which gives him such a great power curve on the dyno and looks like the factory.

Vince is just a straight talking super nice guy that has no ill intent to anyone and same as me. i love GM's since i have owned one when i was 14 and i love making power. why do you think i am boosting a 2.2 base LS HHR. To make a STEALTH HHR auto SS.

We are both about great customer service, patience in a tune to make it right and get it done. it took me 6 hours one time to do a Balt SS/SC w Vin# problems. the larger Turbo on a Balt SS was a 2 week process off and on and still ongoing till it is right or customer wants more things done.
top that with the first tuner to break code on the 05 Balt 2.2 and 06 HHR 2.2 (mine) and all the firsts he has done, Vince to me has my vote for just a great tuner w great customer service.

here was Vince's response to some of the posts that i sent him on emails. he had pc and email problems and is back and running again.

My response to that is simply:

1)  Nobody else provides a selectable tune
2)  Nobody else provides a stealth tune
3)  Nobody gets a tune from us that goes beyond a level of aggressiveness the customer is comfortable with

[kwtoxman]

Can Vince set the selectable tune up to the wiper switch, say the auto position for his tune, the rest for stock?

[perris]

question a smidge off topic cjs;

suppose we ever do blow this motor, can't the cobalt engine be co-opted right onto our kappa?

there are going to be far more of those running around then ours, and further developed

seems to me they're able to do so much more with their engine that might be the way to go if this one ever turns down

right now I am sold on vince and his product, mostly becuase he took the time to come on this thread and do some explainin for those of us who are new to tuned engines and I believe this is the way I'm gonna go when I do pull the trigger

another question I supppose has been asked but this thread is 4 pages long and hard to navigate;

without a bigger turbo, is there any benefit to getting the new gm sensors before vinve tunes our ecu?

thanx in advance for answers

[VinceTrifecta]

without a bigger turbo, is there any benefit to getting the new gm sensors before vinve tunes our ecu?

thanx in advance for answers

We can tune with or without the new sensors, with the stock turbo or with an upgraded turbo.  There is no "benefit" to having the sensors, the only difference being the stock sensors are 2.7bar and the upgraded sensors are 3.3bar.  For our tune it makes no difference which ones are installed, we can set it up to work with either.

[VinceTrifecta]

Can Vince set the selectable tune up to the wiper switch, say the auto position for his tune, the rest for stock?

I dont think so.  The wiper switch likely goes through the BCM and the ECM probably does not "listen" for messages from the wiper switch.

[kennysabarese]

We can tune with or without the new sensors, with the stock turbo or with an upgraded turbo.  There is no "benefit" to having the sensors, the only difference being the stock sensors are 2.7bar and the upgraded sensors are 3.3bar.  For our tune it makes no difference which ones are installed, we can set it up to work with either.

So you are saying the 3.3 bar sensor doesn't allow for more air flow and power?

[snaponbob]

question a smidge off topic cjs;

suppose we ever do blow this motor, can't the cobalt engine be co-opted right onto our kappa?

there are going to be far more of those running around then ours, and further developed

seems to me they're able to do so much more with their engine that might be the way to go if this one ever turns down

right now I am sold on vince and his product, mostly becuase he took the time to come on this thread and do some explainin for those of us who are new to tuned engines and I believe this is the way I'm gonna go when I do pull the trigger

another question I supppose has been asked but this thread is 4 pages long and hard to navigate;

without a bigger turbo, is there any benefit to getting the new gm sensors before vinve tunes our ecu?

thanx in advance for answers

I'll jump in on this. If, and this is a SERIOUS if, the blocks are identical castings, then a "long block" can be replaced. In doing a long block, you get a completely assembled block with all internals, oil pan (may be different but easily swapped), and installed head assembly. EVERYTHING else that attaches to the bare block and head is swapped over. But, again, the blocks must be identical so that all the accessories, mounts, and bell housing will bolt up.  

[perris]

thanx for your answers vince and snapon bob

I have one more question which I did not have for the other tunes

according to flash's owner, (gm engineer with inside information from the power train dept)

the original tune would learn down any modifications, the after market tune would still have that learn down feature but the bar is set higher so when you did a mod to your car you would have to retune

then  the gm re-tune took out that learn down feature, therefore your mods would actually learn up after mod

for instance, the engine would continue adding spark until it hears knock, etc

since this is a new operating system I am wondering if a new tune is needed when you mod or will this tune "learn up" just like the gm tune does

and finally, the original description says if needed we can get the ecu back to the original check sum

when talking code that means everything was identical, it's actually an iso bit for bit

does this mean the original factory iso or the tune as it was before the new tune was flashed?

and if this is correct then there isn't a way to detect number of tunes flashed on the ecu

have I assumed too much here?

[kennysabarese]

FYI we had a bunch of modded kappas with GMPP tune and the power was the same as un-modded GMPPs

So it doesn't seem the no-learn down is true

[perris]

first, I"m not an engineer and everything I learned about turbos I learned because I bought the kappa so take the following with that grain of my untrained salt

FYI we had a bunch of modded kappas with GMPP tune and the power was the same as un-modded GMPPs

So it doesn't seem the no-learn down is true

you know, I am under the impression alot of those mods might work for other engines but not ours

for instance, a cold air intake isn't really going to do anything on our   boosted car and we already have a cold air intake, although the newer designs with heat shields might help in confined racing where there might be heat soak, stop and go traffic or something, otherwise not so much

also our exhuast is pretty good as it stands and I don't know if we really can use that much less back pressure on such a small engine, our turbo has two small spools that spin right up, more air flow isn't going to help a turbo that spools right up it's only going to help a big wheel that has trouble getting to speed

now the inter cooler, again, how many times are we gonna heat soak our inter cooler?...as far as air flow, again the same thing, once the turbo is spooled more air flow doesn't do much

so I don't see the common mods helping an already modded engine from the factory so I don't know what you would see with mods or without

by the way, how much more torque does this tune find over the gm tune?

[CJ Krause]

i think the last number we got on the dyno was 285.9 WHP and 348 WTQ w 26 lbs of boost if i remember right. it is on the other thread

[tazz]

Modded how? vs un-modded and when?
How was the system reset?
I pulled my battery and pulled the fuses 42-43 after the GMPP install not sure if I needed to do both but I did so all the learned items started from a 0 start point to make the learning process easier.
Also I'm not sure if this holds true for a turbo vehicle but it is true for a Supercharged vehicle that the engine needs some sort of back pressure not sure how much though.  The back pressure allows more low end Tq but it will cost you some high end Hp.  When you lessen the back pressure it goes the other way you loose low end Tq but you gain high some end Hp at least this holds true for a supercharged vehicle.  

[1LILNDN]

Perris  You talk about swap to the Cobalt engine I though they were Front wheel Drive  ,or is that just the HHR. If they are in fact FWD How will that work with our RWD Kappas.may be wrong

[Kelu]

tazz: for turbo engines backpressure doesn't help at all, makes only the things worse, turbo needs maximum free flow for exhaust

[perris]

tazz: for turbo engines backpressure doesn't help at all, makes only the things worse, turbo needs maximum free flow for exhaust

I think that's wisdom intended for turbos that have trouble getting to speed or producing enough pressure

but if the turbo is spooling right up to max then added flow doesn't add anything for the turbo

our duel spools are small and fast, I think you are right with a bigger wheel but with these two small ones not so much

[Kelu]

make your engine to spool your turbo at max at low rpm first and then we talk
duel spools? what we are talking here?

[CJ Krause]

balts and HHRs are both front wheel drive