Topic: My stock pads are shot. What can I get ASAP

[kennysabarese]

Burned them up at the track. What can I get fast?

[kennysabarese]

Like I need to replace them tonight!

[Uranium-238]

Saturn dealer? NAPA?

If you need them tonight, it's not like you're going to have the luxury of picking racing pads.

[kennysabarese]

Saturn dealer? NAPA?

If you need them tonight, it's not like you're going to have the luxury of picking racing pads.

There's a pep boys that has "pro stop" pads with a few options, they have ceramic available. and an autozone that has Wagner pads

most likely i will get through tomorrow and then just use these through the winter then replace everything with proper pads for next season.

any advice?

[DirtyMike]

Call ddm have then next day air you some hawk hps ect

[kennysabarese]

i need for sunday 6:30AM so that won't work

[kennysabarese]

i heard a rumor that 08 cobalt SS pads would work on our car? is that true?

[Deep-GXP]

I would say to just do the Wagners for now.  I used to use the Wagners Thermo Quiet or something like that.  They were alright for the price.

[snaponbob]

  What HE said. If you are going back to the track on Sunday you're just going to kill them again. If not, there will be other issues to deal with fairly soon, but that can be discussed a bit later if you like.

[kennysabarese]

Yeah gunna do that. probably will get ceramics so they handle the heat better

[snaponbob]

Yeah gunna do that. probably will get ceramics so they handle the heat better

Do NOT expect great brakes on Sunday. Currently you have a load of OEM brake material embedded on the discs. Bedding in the new pads may really be a problem. Not sure, but maybe. If it were my car, I would probably want the heaviest metallic content pads you can get your hands on today, and plan on killing them tomorrow. Whatever you do, try to very aggressively sand the discs (meaning taking them off to do both sides) and THOROUGHLY cleaning them with plenty of brake clean. You'll need to bed them in carefully tonight and in the AM on the way to the track. If the pedal feels DEAD (like you lost vacuum boost) you may be done for the weekend. I ran into this once with Hawk HPS pads and Hawk said I had to turn the discs, and they were correct. Sorry to be pessimistic, you don't want surprises  at the first turn !!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[kennysabarese]

shit. already bought the ceramics before i saw this

[snaponbob]

crap. already bought the ceramics before i saw this

If you haven't mounted them, see what else is available this evening. Otherwise, clean the discs and bed in the ceramics. It won't take long to know if you have a safe set up. PM me during the week and we can talk.

[kennysabarese]

yeah unfortunately that's not possible. hope everything works out

[tazz]

?
Would green stuff pads work better since they are self bedding if he could find them?  Have a layer of abrasive coating.
Actually have had Hawks on my other vehicle and they are good but at the next change I changed to Green stuff pads and they are way better than hawks IMO

[snaponbob]

?
Would green stuff pads work better since they are self bedding if he could find them?  Have a layer of abrasive coating.
Actually have had Hawks on my other vehicle and they are good but at the next change I changed to Green stuff pads and they are way better than hawks IMO

Next season I will ditch the Hawk pads for (probably) Cobalt brand pads. I have spoken with EBC, Cobalt, and (I'll have to check m notes) another outfit. I really REALLY liked what Cobalt had to say. They fully understood the GM excess front brake bias and had plenty to offer. If the Kappas didn't have ABS, it would be easy to re-bias the brakes with line adjusters. As it is, I will have to use different levels of friction to do the biasing.

IIRC, Cobalt brakes actually lay down a contact layer on the disks, and the pads work against the transferred layer instead of the disk surface. Having spoken with some road racers they confirm the near zero disk wear and great grip. Twice the cash of EBC's and others (~$200 per end) but could be more effective.

[kennysabarese]

I am hanging out with Porsche owners this weekend, and those guys spend money! A bunch recommend Cobalt.

[kennysabarese]

got the wagners on. when i compressed the calipers the rubber boot didn't go in evenly, hope nothing happens, but i think i'll take them out and check them later.

i bed them in and they seem to be fine. a little better than stock pads but it's hard to tell. there is still vibration in the pedal. you can see it in the shifter as well. i have to bleed my fluid again. the wheel shakes a little bit. maybe warped rotors

what we noticed is that one single pad was not evenly worn, it was at an angle so one part of the pad was slightly more worn than the other like \

maybe another symptom of warped rotors?

[elff]

Crap

I missed this thread. I literally have a set of Hawk HPS Plus fronts that I have not installed yet.
But obviously, it's past 6:30 am.

I think you either the pads didn't seat perfectly or you have a slightly warped rotors.
If, after all this you still need another set of pads, I can meet up with you somewhere halfway between our houses, or, I can bring them to the Mod Meet.

[snaponbob]

got the wagners on. when i compressed the calipers the rubber boot didn't go in evenly, hope nothing happens, but i think i'll take them out and check them later.

i bed them in and they seem to be fine. a little better than stock pads but it's hard to tell. there is still vibration in the pedal. you can see it in the shifter as well. i have to bleed my fluid again. the wheel shakes a little bit. maybe warped rotors

what we noticed is that one single pad was not evenly worn, it was at an angle so one part of the pad was slightly more worn than the other like \

maybe another symptom of warped rotors?

Kenny, a bit of uneven wear is not always a terrible thing, but it is NOT the sign of warped rotors. The vibration IS the symptom. You can try turning them, but the stock discs do not have a lot of extra material, so they may go under minimum. Even if they are salvaged, they will quickly warp again as there are now thickness differences. Good news is that they are not too pricey. CED probably can fix you up cheap, and if they can't, I can through a local Chevy dealer. Since you have stock calipers it can only be one of the slider pins not moving 100% as freely as the other on the caliper assembly. If you had multiple piston calipers then one of the pistons would be responding/retracting slowly. Whatever, track days kill brakes !!!

Elff has made you a generous offer. So, I hope not to p!ss him (or any vendors) off ---------- but I ditched the rear HPS very quickly for the Plus pads, and only have the HPS on the front because they were sitting on the shelf (those were removed from the car as well) when I cooked the OEM front pads and they started to instantly fade and started to crumble. I am one of the people that do NOT like them. They wear well, ARE quiet, and don't dust up much. But they also don't stop as well as I expected. On my to do list for 2010 is replacing the pads. Probably Cobalt brand, but maybe EBC. Each has the option of non-metallic (and thus quieter) race pads that require almost no warm up, don't kill disks, and offer different friction coefficients so f/r bias can be "adjusted". Don't get me wrong - Hawks ARE good pads but there are options for the Kappas. Disks? You are on your own. I have never bought after market discs (primarily due to SCCA class rules) so have nothing to share. IF I ws to do track days on any serious level, I would most likely make a change in calipers top allow for THICKER disks both for heat tolerance and the ability to get a few "cuts" before I had to replace them.

HTH.

[Imaj]

Kenny,

Make sure after each run that you do not set the e-brake. That can/could warp your rotors.

[kennysabarese]

yeah i never set the ebrake it's on flat ground and in gear.

is there a way to check if the rotor is flat? like put something straight on the surface and see if it lays flat?

i have all winter to think and save for brakes. i have to make the decision if i am going to seriously continue road course racing. if so i will probably do a serious upgrade.

i gotta try autox just to say i did it and see if i like that better/worse/same. and go from there.

[Ben L]

Hesitate to post this because I do not want to pee on the campfire, but I have to chime in.

I've never run them on the GXP, but I do not care for Hawk HPS.

They work well in street and autox apps, but fade badly at the track.  I found them DUSTY AS HELL, as have many of my Cobra club bros.  I also have used EBC Yellowstuffs, and they work great, but are very tough on rotors. Yes I know they say they are not.  Yes they were on my FFR Cobra roadster.  Got 1 season of autox and discs were marginally turnable, but since Mustang rotors are cheap I just replaced them.

Ceramic pads are fine for track work, but remember the normal operating temps your ride will see most of the time.  Track pads need heat in them to work, and many are not really very good in daily "cold" street use.  

How about a set of Cobalts for the track, and stock pads for daily driving?  Swap 'em during yer pre-track tech & nut and bolt inspection.  Which of course you do.

And also cannot stress enough the importance of proper bedding. 

[kennysabarese]

yeah i was thinking of swapping pads at the track. no reason not to really.

what's the big deal about brake dust? i can wash my my wheels in 15 minutes

[snaponbob]

Ben, having spoken with three different brake pad vendors, there was ONE common comment from them = the discs have to be CLEAN (NO brake pad transfer material) in order to bed in the new pads with the exception of metallic pads like the Hawk Plus, as they will dig through to a fresh surface (i.e. scrape metal off !!). When I put the HPS pads back on the front after killing the OEM pads they simply would not even START to bed in until the disks were turned. Swapping just the pads could present some real problems. They RIGHT way to do it would be pads AND disks, with all parts marked for their corresponding corners.

When I spoke with Cobalt they insisted that since their pads actually deposit material on the discs, the pads are working against a surface that is coated with its own material so it is like pad material against pad material, and thus no wear on the disks. I spoke with some local road racers who confirm the insignificant disk wear when using Cobalt pads. Cobalt said they will work well when cool, yet tolerate temps up to 1600 deg F. They are about $200 per set, and I have the part numbers if needed. The part number is for the backing plate for the pads and then you select the friction material, and thus some of the f/r brake bias can be "tuned".

Kenny, about the only effective way to measure the warp (runout) is with a dial indicator on a brake lathe. There is a method to do it "on car" but it's a hassle and the dial indicator kit can run $100 plus. Since the degree of warpage is in thousandths, using a flat edge is not going to work. Again, swapping stock and HPS pads will NOT work.