Topic: Kappa Stereo lessons learned

[lil goat]

This is sort of a reference guide for those who have yet to upgrade the stereo in the Kappa, there are some simple things you can do and make some huge improvemnets. I will not get into headunits that has been covered by many. Or sound damping, there is only one way to go with that PM Rudeboy it works. First off some simple facts about Monsoon the system.

The system has the crossovers in the amp, the speakers all have there own feed from the amp, including the tweeters in the dash. The rear speakers and the sub are tied together on the fader.
Tweeters are 2 ohm
Door speakers are 2 ohm
Rear speakers are 4 ohm
Sub is dual voice coil (2 amp inputs ) 2 ohm

If you replace the door speakers with 4 ohm speakers you will cut the max volume in half, the same is true for the sub.

I am still using the factory headunit and amp.

I have 4 ohm JBL GTO speakers in my doors, they sound really good but could use more power, I will be installing these
Infinity Reference 6032cf 6.5-Inch 180-Watt Two-Way Loudspeaker ($70) they are a 2 ohm full range speaker with tweeter in the cone, you could use these and leave the stock tweeters as they are, should make a big difference.
For the rear speakers I installed these Kicker 3.5" 07DS350 ($29), I put a bass blocker on them and it really helps, right now they get nothing below 600 hz (no bass) they sound really good, I just got some new bass blockers and will try dropping to 300 hz and 150 hz to see how they work, but absolutely use some kind of bass blocker, set up correctly these speakers can add a lot mine do.

The sub, make sure and get a dual voice coil 2 ohm sub, it gives you the most options, can easily be wired for single input 4 ohm if you want to but a 4 ohm can't be wired for 2 ohm. There are several good 8" replacements out there.

I put in a 10" sub, it needs to be really shallow to fit and you will have to cut the factory box, if you want to do one do yourself a favor get a 10" sub ring for $15 on eBay (search 10" speaker ring) it will give you a nice template to trim the box to and add 3/4" to the depth of the box and you will have a nice solid surface to mount the speaker and help keep the frame from hitting the body panel in the back (I had to adjust mine with a BFH. I will be adding the ring soon to my current set up, wish I had gotten one before I started.

If you want to add an amp there are low level outputs from the radio you can tap into but I found the signal level to be very low, switched to the speaker outputs from the factory amp and used the high level in on the amp it it sounds great. The amp is in the seat and I am still working on cooling, it will need fans.

[Gentleman Jack]

lil goat,

thanks for this write up!  I have the base (non monsoon) stereo and am looking to upgrade.  I know that there are differences, but hey, it's a challange!  The previous owner was mostly deaf, so the stereo was pretty low on his list, but that's ok. 

Do you have any pics of your install process?  I know there are some head unit install walk thrus - I was looking more to the sound damping.  How tough is it?  I will PM Rudeboy as well.

Thanks,

Gentleman Jack

[lil goat]

I do have some pictures Dick W was kind enough to take, and Jonymac and Rudeboy have posted several already. The sounddampening is not hard just a long slow process. I recommend everyone do the doors at a minimum it makes such a huge difference. The other is awesome as well my car is so quiet now, I am not used to it yet. I need to do a bit more work on the back panel as the actually panel has some buzz now with the new sub, should be easy enough to fix, maybe just a screw or two to tighten it down.

[TomatoSoup]

Do you have any pics of your install process?  [...] I was looking more to the sound damping.  How tough is it?  I will PM Rudeboy as well.

Instructions are in RudeBoy's writeup - here: http://kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=2450.0

[Rogue]

Goat - Great info. Thanks for taking the time to post this for us. Also, could you measure the mounting depth of the door speakers and the subwoofer? That would really be helpful. Thanks.

Jeff

[Gentleman Jack]

Instructions are in RudeBoy's writeup - here: http://kappaperformance.com/forum/index.php?topic=2450.0

Thanks!

[lil goat]

Goat - Great info. Thanks for taking the time to post this for us. Also, could you measure the mounting depth of the door speakers and the subwoofer? That would really be helpful. Thanks.

Jeff

Jeff the door speakers will take most 6.5's out there, plenty of space as they mount on stand offs, but to maintain the 2 ohms you only have a few choices, I am not sure what will fit but the JBL GTO's fit easily and they have a 2 1/4 mounting depth, I just discovered they also come in a 2 ohm version JBL GTO607C CAR 6.5, if I had been paying attention I would have gotten these but at the time I didn't know our door speakers were 2 ohm.

The sub depth is about 4 1/2" that is not the issue, it is the basket size that becomes a problem, I had to dent the rear wall to get the 10" to fit and it is super shallow. If you get the particle board ring from eBay it adds 3/4" and should help with this a lot. With the ring most 8" shallow mounts should fit even in the stock enclosure. The 10" sub required I cut away part of the back of the stock box and then reseal it, I may have had to cut away a lot less if I had the mounting ring, it would be $15 well spent if you want to upgrade the woofer, to either a better 8" or a 10". Here is a picture of what I am talking about, they even have a 1 1/2" version for the 8" or you could use 2 for the 10", you will have to modify the grill but I already had to do that. If you have the skill and tools you could easily make one, but for $15 just easier to buy one for me.

Found some more 2 ohm 6.5 speakers for the doors, no idea if they are better or worse than the Infinity but it least they are 2 ohm.
Kenwood KFC-X1710P 6.5" Component Speakers

Found more 2 ohm CADENCE TXC-6K 6.5

Maybe we are supposed to use these check the name Infinity Kappa 60.7CS 6 1/2

[Rogue]

Has anybody had any experience with Kicker products? I'm looking at the Kicker  CompVR 07CVR82 subwoofers - 8", dual 2 ohm voice coils, freq response 30-500, but am concerned about the 50-200 watt range and 83.1db@1 volt sensitivity. Sounds like they might be for high power applications only. Any thoughts?

Jeff

[wspohn]

While I am a serious home stereo nut, I have always managed to avoid getting the car stereo bug, and regard the cars as a vehicle to drive home to where the really good sound hangs out.

While I am sure you can improve on the stock Solstice system (which isn't all that shabby, BTW) getting really good sound in such a small volume is a real challenge.  

[lil goat]

Has anybody had any experience with Kicker products? I'm looking at the Kicker  CompVR 07CVR82 subwoofers - 8", dual 2 ohm voice coils, freq response 30-500, but am concerned about the 50-200 watt range and 83.1db@1 volt sensitivity. Sounds like they might be for high power applications only. Any thoughts?

Jeff

I have the Kicker 3.5's in the rear they kick butt, but no way to judge the sub from that Kicker has been around forever, I found it for $45 sweet deal, it is 4 1/2" deep, that is most likely going to mean it will be a squeeze in the factory box due to the better basket than the stock pressed steel. I think functionally you will be fine, but it is going to be tight.


Some comments from Crutchfield
Enclosure Compatibility

Power Handling: The power handling specifications differ according to the type and size of the enclosure. The power handling specifications assume that both voice coils are in use. Note: Both voice coils in a dual voice coil speaker should always be connected.

Recommended Sealed Box Volume:

    * Compact (minimum enclosure volume): 0.4 cu/ft; the woofer can handle up to 200 watts RMS (100 watts per voice coil)
    * SQ (maximum enclosure volume): 1.8 cu/ft; the woofer can handle up to 140 watts RMS (70 watts per voice coil)

Recommended Vented Box Volume:

    * Compact: 0.8 cu/ft; 1.5" x 8" port opening; 20.75" port depth; the woofer can handle up to 75 watts RMS (37.5 watts per voice coil)
    * SPL/Deep Bass: 1.2 cu/ft; 2" x 8" port opening; 19.125" port depth; the woofer can handle up to 75 watts RMS (37.5 watts per voice coil)

    Note: The power handling specifications listed with the vented enclosure recommendations apply only when a 25Hz, 24dB/octave subsonic filter (sold separately) is used with this woofer. If a subsonic filter is not used, power handling may decrease, excessive port noise can occur, and the life of the woofer may be shortened.

[Rogue]

Thanks Goat. Crutchfield currently has them "buy 1 get 1 free" and since there are two Solstices (Solsti?) in our driveway the offer seems pretty attractive.

[lil goat]

I think you would see more benefit from the door speaker upgrade just from hearing Joe's and Spicie's last weekend, Joe has a better head unit and Spice boy had the dampening, in both cases the speakers sounded muddy to me, while both a huge improvement over the factory sound. The factory drivers are OK, they just aren't very clean and the muddy bass you hear is coming from the doors, put a very inexpensive choke on the rears and it cleans up a lot as well taking the bass out of the 3.5's

[TomatoSoup]

... put a very inexpensive choke on the rears ...

Actually, just to be clear, a bass blocker is actually a capacitor, not a choke (which is an inductor).

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programming...

[Go-N Def]

If you are planning on upgrading the system all together, I would reccomend doing it all at once.  In other words, buy it all at the same time and match your products to each other.  

I've had a lot of people come to me for advice on upgrading their system piece-meal. They bought a set of speakers first then an amp and sub a few months later.  Then they get bored with that and buy another amp for the speakers.  All the while trying to use the factory head unit.

It's so much easier to save up your money and buy it all at once. You get a better system out of it, everything works together and there's no comprimises.  Not to mention that taking the car apart once, running wires once, and putting it all back together once saves a hell of a lot of time on the install too!

I'm waiting on some new technology to hit the market.  It should be available and proven (reviewed) by the time I get back from the Philippines in Jan 2011.  I will also have enough extra $$$ lying around to afford what I want...

[Morfious]

I will add the caveat, that if you are going to go about things piecemeal, do it with a bit of forethought. I'm still figuring out sub ideas since JL is not producing the shallow 12" driver I had originally wanted to use.  When I ran the amp wires I ran extra wires to the sub area as well.  Once everything is in place the wiring will be irght there to plug in. 

Run all your wires from the beginning.  Like Go-N-Def said, its easier to do it all at once while the car is ripped apart.

Plan out your system from the start and make all the arrangements to go along with each other.  You will have a much better time, than trying to do it after the fact.

[Go-N Def]

Oh, and should have added that, if you're paying someone elso to do your install, you'll save quite a bit of cash in the long run...

[lil goat]

Good advice not what this thread is about I don't have the money to do that i will do it as I and enjoy it on the wau, i will do it all myself this is about. Diy

If you are planning on upgrading the system all together, I would reccomend doing it all at once.  In other words, buy it all at the same time and match your products to each other.  

I've had a lot of people come to me for advice on upgrading their system piece-meal. They bought a set of speakers first then an amp and sub a few months later.  Then they get bored with that and buy another amp for the speakers.  All the while trying to use the factory head unit.

It's so much easier to save up your money and buy it all at once. You get a better system out of it, everything works together and there's no comprimises.  Not to mention that taking the car apart once, running wires once, and putting it all back together once saves a hell of a lot of time on the install too!

I'm waiting on some new technology to hit the market.  It should be available and proven (reviewed) by the time I get back from the Philippines in Jan 2011.  I will also have enough extra $$$ lying around to afford what I want...

[Rogue]

Both positions regarding installations are valid. While some people (like myself) are adamant about DIY, others are more pragmatic and factor in the cost/time issues. There is plenty of room on this board for both attitudes.

[spartan]

To each his own but I have focused on other things to upgrade.  I will shy away from updating anything electronic until the warranty expires.  No HIDs, etc.  I bought the extended warranty and I hope that will prove to be a good investment.  I think the stereo is ok and am intrigued by the sound deadening as a way to reduce driver fatigue - less "other" noise means lower volume and distortion.  There is a little rattling and resonation that I would like to reduce.  

Here is a decent question I've always wondered in the context of, it's a convertible afterall anyway - how quiet can you really make it...how much more loud is a convertible inside than a regular sports car or sedan?  I should note I have a SKY RL with the OEM "blanket" insert the reduces noise.  We need to measure the decibels in a stock coupe and a stock convertible to compare, but before applying rude boy's solutions, and then maybe after.

[GXPinKC]

Great post goat.  I enjoyed every bit of information that you posted because down the line it was helpful to others facing the same task.  If my old ears performed better, I too would make the plunge.  I am sure you will enjoy the results.

[lil goat]

My battles continue, I have gotten a bout as much as I can from the stock headunit. I am pretty happy with the sub, I will pull it at some point and seal it a bit better but think I killed most of the air leaks this weekend. I would love to have the money to drive it in a and say do it, but that is not going to happen unless I will the lottery. I don't think anyone makes a better sounddeadening product than Rudeboy, most just apply 40 lbs. of Dyanmat and call it good, my son's truck has the Pro Dynamat treatment, never have been impressed with it, we will be doing the Rudeboy upgrade this winter.

I want to change my door speakers to aftermarket 2 ohm speakers soon I think that may help a lot. I changed the rear bass blockers over the weekend from 600 hz to 150 hz it made the system sound more open and "airy" and added a little mid bass, I think anything below 150 hz to the little 3.5 rears is just going to distort they are really clean now and add a lot. My system sound really good now, it is not super loud but loud enough and pretty clean except for the low end from the doors, I am hoping 2 ohm speakers will help with that, seems they are just running out of power.

[Rogue]

What cap value and type did you use for the bass blocker? If I've done my math correctly, a 4 ohm speaker should roll off at 150hz and 6db/octave using a 265uf capacitor. Now, just need to find a manufacturers catalog to see what the closest "off the shelf" value would be. Unless someone else has already done that legwork......

[lil goat]

What cap value and type did you use for the bass blocker? If I've done my math correctly, a 4 ohm speaker should roll off at 150hz and 6db/octave using a 265uf capacitor. Now, just need to find a manufacturers catalog to see what the closest "off the shelf" value would be. Unless someone else has already done that legwork......

I cheated and just ordered from Crutchfield, $9.99 150 hz roll off for 4 ohm 75 for 8 ohm, Parts Express has them cheaper but I found them after I ordered from Crutchfield. Should be a 265 ufd for 150 hz and 4 ohms, the rears are 4 ohm, I don't know what value the ones I got are but they seem to work, no distortion from the little rear speakers, they are rated down to 80hz.


Here is a chart.
http://www.chokes.com/chart_6db.htm
   

[TomatoSoup]

What cap value and type did you use for the bass blocker? If I've done my math correctly, a 4 ohm speaker should roll off at 150hz and 6db/octave using a 265uf capacitor. Now, just need to find a manufacturers catalog to see what the closest "off the shelf" value would be. Unless someone else has already done that legwork......

Closest standard values in that range would be 220uF or 330uF.  You might be able to get 270uF, but I had a look on Digikey.com, and they don't show any bipolar's at 270uF.

Don't forget that these caps only give you a rolloff of 6dB/octave (i.e if you choose a "150Hz" knee point, you'll only be blocking half the power at 75Hz). Thus you may well want a higher-knee point (smaller value capacitor) to have an appreciable effect.

[Rogue]

If we go with the 220uf the rolloff frequency will go up slightly to approx 180hz for a 4 ohm load (again at 6 db/octave). That should get the job done. At those frequencies the subwoofers should be supplying the audio power anyway. Item of note: bipolar caps are a nice cost effective solution, however they do tend to change value as they age. A film cap would be a better longterm choice if that is an important part of the decision making process.