Topic: Boost Restrictor Pill

[lil goat]

If you are bored, read up on them. Yes the GXP has one, yes it is easy to change. I ordered something that will work as a "pill" and will play with them when they arrive, for the LNF recommended sizes are between .021 and .040, start big and go smaller. Have fun.

[Kelu]

What are you talking about, sir?

[lil goat]

Look it up, I did. There is lots of info out there on the subject, mostly from the Subaru guys. I was told we had one and where it is and what sizes might work for the LNF that was about all. You ought to know by now, I never make things easy, after I get the "pills" I ordered and try this I will post more. It is still just an experiment, this it would seem is one of the reasons we can only see 26 PSI, it is mechanically limited. Read up on it. I am still reading.

[Uranium-238]

 Goat, could you be less cryptic? Last time you tried that approach, we were able to weasel exactly what you were adding to your fuel. Save us the time and spill the beans earlier!

Consider everyone warned that trying your ideas before they've been tested risks their engine, maybe more. This isn't a Civic forum, people aren't going to run out, try something stupid, then blame you for it later.

Well, at least I hope not...

[lil goat]

Look it up, the info is there, damn sure a lot easier to read what others have written than me trying to explain something I know very little about, I got told less than I told you and I figured it out. It is a restrictor in a hose that effects boost, there you go now you know what I do.

Here is the Google page http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=boost+restrictor+pill&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=db658cc5049dc510 Just read. If I could post more I would, the info I have is in Adobe and I can't cut and paste it, without the diagrams it is useless. I maybe able to do more when I get home I have Adobe Creator at home, I only have reader here.

DON"T BE SO DANG LAZY!

[perris]

If I could post more I would, the info I have is in Adobe and I can't cut and paste it, without the diagrams it is useless. I maybe able to do more when I get home I have Adobe Creator at home, I only have reader here.

you should be able to upload the pdf as an attachment, if not you can zip it up and upload the zip

[Kelu]

I did the reading but this seems to me to be worth on an upgraded turbo.
You want more of 26psi from our stock turbos?
What will be benefit in our cases which we all are stock turbos and many of us with aftermarket tunes.

[Uranium-238]

Sounds like you might be able to fine-tune your turbo response as well, but I don't know how much benefit we'd see from it.

But that's why we have Goat, who is willing to try just about anything to milk every ounce of power out of his car.

[snaponbob]

Actually, I am seeing 28-29 psi all through second and third, and have yet to send a scan to Lyndon. I KNOW the numbers are correct becaue there is a 1 to 1 relationship of the gauge readings and the DIC up to 23 psi. All this just working off his last file/flash. Two weeks ago I installed an AutoMeter mechanical vac/boost gauge to see what was going on, because I could FEEL what was going on. The plastic "t" was the wrong sizes so I bought a correct one. The little plastic tube going to the gauge kept blowing out of the rubber boot, so a few bucks for some 1/4" fuel line spring clamps solved that. (Pics in wanted.) Full boost @25-2600 rpm all the way to 5200 and then it starts to taper to 23 @ 6500rpm. So, the plus side is a LOT of boost. I simply installed a cut down (shortened) .030 mig welder tip and stuffed in the appropriate hose. Total dollar investment = $1.25.

There is the plus side. Everything has an offsetting down side. The turbo is racing up and down in a bloody hurry, and there is NOTHING subtle about how the boost comes on even at light throttle. This makes it a bit of a chore in traffic and takes a little care on the right side pedal. It takes only a short bit of time to do the mod, and it is easily reversed. With HPT, Lyndon can create a tune for the "pill", so switching tunes is easy as well. Additionally, I can not believe that this is easy on the turbo itself, and only time will tell. To produce the elevated pressures the turbo must be spinning its brains out !!!! I am only seeing some KR between 2100-2400 as the boost is spooling up and none above that except under light throttle but higher pressures. Since I have an 07 LNF, boost numbers above 23psi are not reported, but Lyndon can see what is happening with air flow readings. I can see the boost on the gauge, but there is no way to accurately relate that to specific rpms.

Different size mig welder tips will net different results. The .030 tip I used measured out at .039, so I plan to use the extras to drill them out a bit and see how they react. With the increased air flow I can certainly see a reason to get a new I/C before the 2010 Solo season to allow more flow. Once I have a new tune in it, the car will go on the rollers again.

p.s. Just saw Goats WG rod adjustment post. When I installed the "pill" the turbo went bonkers. It turns out that I had to reset the rod back to stock, and that is basically the procedure outlined by Lyndon.

 

[kennysabarese]

I would hope that anyone selling a larger turbo kit would know about this pill thing and probably supply lines that have the proper pill in them.

[shabby]

Unless you have hptuners and know what to look for in your datalogs you shouldn't attempt, plus you might have to disable overboost protection with hptuners. The whole thread about this is here http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25916

[snaponbob]

Shabby, I am actually surprised that I haven't had any codes set, shown a bunch of KR under boost, or gone into limp mode. I know I am generating a lot more soot around the exhaust tips. As long as I am not in the boost very much my fuel mileage hasn't changed, either. With all respect to folks selling tunes, if one can not use HPT to scan the ECM, you could get into deep poop and kill an engine in a hurry. It may be that if you not using a "tunable" tune (be it via e-mail or on a dyno) and have something like HPT available and know what to look for, just don't do this. If you have the GMPP tune, be safe and don't even think about it. This may be the difference between playing with a gun and playing with a LOADED gun.

[Uranium-238]

Well, the rule is you don't even play with an unloaded gun...

1. Treat all firearms as if they are loaded
2. Do not point the weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till you're ready to fire
4. Be sure of what you're shooting at.

OK, gun safety minute is over.

Bob, are you saying that in reference to the boost pills, or getting a tune in general? Either way, messing with the boost pill isn't on my to-do list, at least not till I decide what the plan is for the car. If I keep it long enough to get it paid off, which is the plan, it will either be getting a larger turbo or a V8 soon afterwards. If I go the turbo route, then I'm sure I'll dabble around with the stock one for a while first.

[snaponbob]

Bob, are you saying that in reference to the boost pills, or getting a tune in general? Either way, messing with the boost pill isn't on my to-do list, at least not till I decide what the plan is for the car. If I keep it long enough to get it paid off, which is the plan, it will either be getting a larger turbo or a V8 soon afterwards. If I go the turbo route, then I'm sure I'll dabble around with the stock one for a while first.

If somebody is going to fool around with an air flow restriction they should a) know what they are doing, b) have some sort of tune in the ecm (probably NOT the GMPP), and c) have a method to observe the data stream in order to see how the engine is reacting. Having some knock that the computer can adjust for is one thing, but detonation is another and THAT kills turbo engines REAL fast.

BTW, if you want to convert a Kappa to a V8, go the cheap route and find a 2.4 for cheap and sell the RL in stock form to fund it. Could be a break even with some skilled shopping !!!

[speedhawg]

Thanks for the update Bob, I have the instructions and I am sure Bob does to for anyone with a Wester's tune. Lyndon said they are on his website, or you can email him. He asked we not post the instructions just because THIS CAN BLOW UP YOUR CAR!

lil goat's alter ego

[snaponbob]

p.s. It seems a modest amount of learn down may have occurred. It still spikes to an indicated 28-29psi, but does not hold quite as long. Doesn't matter, it's a hoot. I will add to goat's alter ego, and state that Lyndon's warning should be taken seriously. I will get this tweak finished with a new file from Lyndon, drive it some, scan it again, and once LW says that's as good as it gets with my equipment, I'll reverse the mod until Solo season, and switch back and forth for events subject to written confirmation from SCCA as to its legality. Seems to comply with the letter of the rule book per the Tech office, but will wait for something in writing.

[speedhawg]

By the way to address U-238, I was not being cryptic, you got more than I did, I got "try this" and a diagram with instructions, no explanation at all. I had to look it all up.

When you are a test goat sometimes you just got to go with it, Lyndon can be a man of few words.