Topic: Kirkey Racing seats and 6 point harness installation

[kennysabarese]

Hey all,

I just picked up a pair of Kirkey Racing 47300 Intermediate road race seats. (used for half price)

I'm going to have these installed in the next few weeks and will cover the installation here.

Here is the URL for the seats: http://kirkeyracing.com/index.php?link=browse&code=Series47

Mine do not have the pair of slots cut out of the bottom, I think this seat was made before 6 point harnesses were widespread. Should be able to just cut slots for them.

The installation will be done by Power Tech in Rockaway NJ

Anyway, stay tuned for more info

UPDATE: seat install photo gallery here, more photos than in the thread:

http://gallery.me.com/kennysabarese#100332

[kennysabarese]

The seats!

As I mentioned before these are Kirkey 47000 series seats. Specifically 47300. Not sure exactly what that means. They are both 15" seats. My original plan was to get a 16" seat on the passenger side for hefty passengers and racing instructors. but the deal I got on these seats was too good to pass up.

If I can find a good price on a 16" I'll swap.

The biggest reason I chose to go with the Kirkey seat was because it is aluminum and able to be bent and cut to fit in the tight Kappa cockpit. The Sparco EVO is a very popular seat choice, but I heard can have fitment problems. It's also twice as expensive, about ~750 EACH.

These Kirkeys can be picked up brand new for $408 with padding, ~$250 without padding. I got a pair used for $450! Yes the cover doesn't match beautifully. Screw it!

Also these seats are LIGHT, about 13.5 pounds each.

They may end up being a little rough on the butt. If so you can just take off the cover, shove foam where needed and bam, back in biz.

Also the Kirkey seats usually have two slots for 6 point harnesses that put the strap in a position behind your legs to really hold you in and stay away from your groin. These seats are a little older and do not have the slots, but I am sure it will be fine to cut them. The plastic seats like Sparco or Recaro do not have these slots, not sure if it matters.

[kennysabarese]

Harnesses:

I am probably going to go with Schroth Profi II HANS 6 point harnesses.

These harnesses are FIA certified, the highest standard. The 2" belt on the waist has actually been found to be safer than a 3" belt, and a 2" shoulder harness allows for more comfortable use with a HANS device. Which I plan on getting in the future. (they ain't cheap)

They have two types of cam locks, and I am not sure which one to get. One has a button push, the other a twist. The twist is meant to be harder to open by mistake, but is not street legal, probably because they would want someone to get out of the harness as fast as possible if you have an accident on the street. I am not sure how often I will use the harness on the street. Probably not often. So I'll probably get the standard one.

Here is the full description and photo from the website: http://www.schrothracing.com/store/Competition/profi/profi-II (gotta scroll down a bit to get to the HANS version)

  The Profi II-6 HANS is our most popular belt. It is the perfect solution for a touring car. It features the 2" lap Flexi Lap Belt, the T-bar sub strap and the HANS Specific 2"/3" shoulder belts. All points are wrapped in, so you can add almost any end fitting for your specific application.

The HANS specific shoulder belts are designed to make HANS use safer and more comfortable. The belts start as 3" webbing at the cam lock, then after the length adjuster they are 2" webbing which fits completely on the HANS yoke. This gives you the optimal force distribution, entirely on the surface of the HANS. A standard 3" belt will work, however some of the load is not distributed on the HANS. This also can be a comfort issue with some of the webbing falling off the HANS.

Another important feature of the HANS specific shoulder belts is the ability to move the anchor points towards each other to acheive the perfect installation geometry. This will help in the Post-Impact phase - very important in a roll-over situation as well.

The main premise behind the 2" lap belt is one of added safety. A 2" belt rides within the crest of the human pelvis where a 3" belt would rest on the edges. This allows you to get the belt up to an inch and a half tighter. That means the lap belt will be working earlier in the accident event because it gets loaded faster. It's also more comfortable and easier to adjust becuase there's less friction through the adjuster.

Another feature unique to the Profi Series 2" lap belts is the "Flexi Belt". The End Fittings and Cam Latches are wrapped into the harness, making it so that the lap belt can be changed from a Pull Up configuration to a Pull Down. This allows you to set the belt up just the way you want it for your specific situation. It also allows for Bolt In brackets to be wrapped in for the lap belts if needed. Snap in brackets come standard on the laps.

[snaponbob]

Nice catch !!!! If I tried 15" seats there would be no need for seat belts -------  it would almost be a press fit !!!!

One point of interest that would be nice to hear about - how do you plan on dealing with the occupant and seat belt sensors for the airbag system?

[kennysabarese]

For the airbag sensor, maybe I can move it to the Kirkey seat. Or maybe just splice it so it's always on.

Stock seatbelts, no clue!  I should be able to use the stock belts with the Kirkeys, a friend of mine with a 911 got Ford seat belt extender straps and everything worked.

I think a lot has to do if I plan to leave the stock seats in most of the time, or leave the Kirkeys in full time.

[Kelu]

Nice move Kenny, what will be the total weight saving?

[kennysabarese]

I've heard some other people have weighed the stock seats. But until the brackets are calculated. I won't know the exact numbers.

[snaponbob]

I've heard some other people have weighed the stock seats. But until the brackets are calculated. I won't know the exact numbers.

I weighed my driver side seat WITH tracks a few weeks ago. Can't remember the exact number, but ~40 pounds comes to mind.

[kennysabarese]

Yeah the ~14lbs number is SEAT ONLY, not sure if it counts the fabric either.

There will be mounting brackets and maybe tracks.

Actually I forgot to mention that. I am going to try to use sliders, either from Sparco or stock. The shop asked me if the stock sliders are double locking. I am not sure if they are or not. Or if the Sparco sliders are easier to install. But the Solstice Performance book said using the stock sliders was a .

Dr. Jones has EVO's with Sparco sliders and he said it wasn't hard to install. So we shall see.

[Uranium-238]

Just a thought: If being able to get out of a harness ASAP is what makes it street legal or not, might just want to get the street legal ones and roll with them. If your car torches in the middle of the race you're going to want out fast...

[kennysabarese]

My guess is the button kinds maybe can't handle the same impact as the others? It's not hard to unlock the camlock. Just a twist instead of a push. Who knows. I will research more.

[Uranium-238]

Ben has the twist variety in his Coupe, I didn't have any issues with it. Honestly, I'd prefer the twist one. There has to be something else that makes that harness not street legal...

[Ben L]

Even with the twist type (supposedly accidental opening resistant), I have popped open my harness more than once fighting with the steering wheel through a fast section of multiple turns in an autox in the Coupe with no power steering, 315s up front, and loads of caster.

The Kirkey is so form fitting and bolstered that it didn't matter.  Autocrossing, where there is little chance of hitting anything that will cause differential momentum between the car and my ugly ass inside the car, I suppose I can get away with it once in a while. 

That's never happened on the track, thank God, because generally there is more set up time for the turns so I can have my hands in position. 

However, it has made me conscious of when either hand is approaching 6 o'clock, and at risk of any contact with the circular cam lock.  Kenny is skinny enough that his latch will likely be very far away from his hands at any position on the wheel.

[kennysabarese]

I finally am getting the seats installed today. I'm sitting in the lobby of a Porsche performance shop called Powertech in Rockaway NJ. They are starting right now

[snaponbob]

 

[Uranium-238]

[kennysabarese]

So far Plan A is to use the stock rails from the passenger seat. Because the kirkey's are so narrow, and the stock seat bolts are very wide, to use aftermarket stuff would require some fabrication. If we use the stock rails, he thinks the kirkey's will squeeze right in between.

I'll have some pics once he gets started with the dissasembly.

Also this means I'll probably have to get another set of stock rails. He's gunna pull the part numbers off the stickers.

[kennysabarese]

I am concerned because the solstice performance book had problems using the stock rails. But they were using sparco's which are wider on the outside. So we will see how it goes.

[snaponbob]

If you look closely at the Solstice Performance book's pictures of the seat installation, they used a sheet metal brake to bend up some right angle mounts. This may be the right way to go as squeezing the seats in between the stock rails may a) bind the tracks to the point that they won't slide, and b) sit REALLY low.

[kennysabarese]

So we mocked up the seats with blocks on the passenger stock sliders. It sits low, and it's awesome! Helps with rollbar clearance. When I sat in an NA it was low, the seat height mechanism adds height. On blocks, it was a good position, and once it's mounted I will have height choices and angle choices. So I think it will be good.

You can see the stock sliders have a hole at each corner. We are going to take the mounting brackets and cut them to fit. Basically two vertical arms per side. Drill a second hole in the rear spot for more strength.

[kennysabarese]

oh BTW getting them to the shop was a real  

[attachment=1]

[snaponbob]

How wide are your seats? I know they are available in many widths.

[kennysabarese]

15"

[kennysabarese]

OK updated plan. More safe. Bolt directly to the back of the stock slider by trimming the corner to let the seat push back a little further. Then use the bracket only for the front.

The back of the seat is most important to have secure, and we'll be using the stock mounting location which has 3 rivets into the rail so its' real strong.
[attachment=1]

[kennysabarese]

Ok so, I need to buy a second stock passenger seat rails. Time to do some searching.